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[Spoilers] EP505 Discussion

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Stannis definitely said "fear", and then shushed Davos's questioning of what he said.

Stannis said "fewer" correcting the guy who said "lesser". That is because he is a high lord and literate surrounded by illiterate criminals in case the audience forgot. D&D are here to remind us of class differences.

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It's the second time Stannis has made that correction, he corrected Davos on the Blackwater too. I think the "nevermind" was almost a subtle frustration that Davos still couldn't grasp it. :lol:



It was a nice touch.


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What is so hard about climbing the broken tower? Jaime and Cersei did it to have sex so if Cersei can do it so can Sansa.

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Can Bryan Cogman write all the episodes please?

I second that! He is awfully good in wiping all Dumb&Dumber shit that hit a fan in precious episodes. And he does look a bit like Sam, so it makes sense. Jaime Lannister and Ramsey Snow wrote some shit and then Sam comes along.

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I apologise if this was discussed here before, I did not read all the posts. why is ramsay worried about his claim if he has already been legitimized?

Because Roose can kill him at any point in time once the legitimate baby son is born.

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What is so hard about climbing the broken tower? Jaime and Cersei did it to have sex so if Cersei can do it so can Sansa.

Well, if you are in danger, would you have time to climb it or the opportunity or a candle or a match? Wait a minute. They do not have matches. She needs time to light a fire. Shall I go on?

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I've long predicted that Missandei will betray Dany for love. I think the show will try to show that with her relationship with Grey Worm. And the books might show it with one of her brothers.

That's my take.

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Soooooooo is Jon Snow going to send Aemon and Sam to Oldtown via Braavos?



Jorah is taking the place of Connington, Selmy, and who else? Will they gain a red priest/priestess on their journeys?



Random Dany deciding to open the pits and marry Hizdar. Rushed and makes little sense since they should have made Hizdar insisting this more throughout the season, including marriage and why it would help stop the murders. Instead they make him look like some weak coward.



No more Mel and Jon Snow talking? She will be gone when...



Would it kill them to have Tormund give a "har" every once in a while? Give him a better, larger personality? In the books, he rocks. In the show he is just another sullen, emo northerner like everyone else. No personality. The only time he was awesome was in the episode that GRRM wrote in Season 3. Go figure.



Davos is not going to be sent to look for Rickon? Or maybe he will towards the end of the season?



The Missandei/Greyworm love interest is brilliant. And by brilliant I mean it's lame as hell.



"If you need help, light a candle in the highest tower." Sansa should have said, "What? Like I don't need help now? Fucking help!"



Overall the show is a pleasant enough distraction until the next book comes out.


Edited by A Redeemed Hound

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Jorah is taking the place of Connington, Selmy, and who else? Will they gain a red priest/priestess on their journeys?

Maybe they'll bring back that cute Asian priestess from episode 4. That whole scene was pretty ominous.

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Soooooooo is Jon Snow going to send Aemon and Sam to Oldtown via Braavos?

I think Aemon dies in Castle Black, Sam and Gilly get sent to Old Town.

Jorah is taking the place of Connington, Selmy, and who else? Will they gain a red priest/priestess on their journeys?

Random Dany deciding to open the pits and marry Hizdar. Rushed and makes little sense since they should have made Hizdar insisting this more throughout the season, including marriage and why it would help stop the murders. Instead they make him look like some weak coward.

No more Mel and Jon Snow talking? She will be gone when...

Would it kill them to have Tormund give a "har" every once in a while? Give him a better, larger personality? In the books, he rocks. In the show he is just another sullen, emo northerner like everyone else. No personality. The only time he was awesome was in the episode that GRRM wrote in Season 3. Go figure.

Davos is not going to be sent to look for Rickon? Or maybe he will towards the end of the season?

The Missandei/Greyworm love interest is brilliant. And by brilliant I mean it's lame as hell.

I and others think she betrays Dany for love (1 of the three betryals in book )

"If you need help, light a candle in the highest tower." Sansa should have said, "What? Like I don't need help now? Fucking help!"

One of the two people talking to Brienne and Sansa probably work for Roose, my guess is the old women.

Overall the show is a pleasant enough distraction until the next book comes out.

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A lot of the new material is adapted solely for the television show and to keep things spicy. Personally Id rather see the hetero relationships more than the others... Missandrei and Grey Worm isn't that bad.



I get why people are all hurt by the revelations this show is throwing at its audience but come on really? If you hate this show so much why do you watch it? You are only supporting it. Actions speak louder than words anyway... Yes I would love for them to include all the cool storylines in the books but that's just not possible with the tv show and budget. If the show followed so closely to the books this show would suffer immensely. Instead of focusing on core battles we'd instead get before and after montages or worse them just talking about how they beat their opponents.



Anyway I believe Dark Sansa's story is quite pleasing in a way. She cements the hurt and traitorous guilt that Theon must be feeling inside... To openly admit to doing something so horrible and knowing that you didn't really kill Bran and Rickon must tug at Theon greatly. Crazy good exchange there.



Dany coming off braver and stronger with every episode. I can see that she is definitely starting to rule as if she was meant to. Sadly without BS and JM by her side she has no one to consul with before things get really dangerous for her during the Pits. I am really looking forward to that though!



Jon going up to help the wildings himself? Strange deviation... I don't think he actually goes... maybe he gets stopped by rogue NW members before he steps aboard a ship?



Stannis... hell yeah! Hoping that the Greyjoys play apart in this skirmish when his army starts barreling towards the south. I do think that all his emphasis on the weather will come to pass and be the BIG reversal on his gains will be painful for him and his army before he even gets close to Winterfell. If this happens than Winter is Coming will only be accelerated at this point and we may perhaps see the Others reappear in the coming episdoes.

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It would be an interesting twist if the Old Woman acting like she is helping Sansa is a Bolton spy, while Myranda actually is the one that ends up helping her. But, like you said, Myranda has already been depicted as pretty evil in the past. Maybe she helps Sansa escape so she has less competition in Winterfell.

I think Myranda is who she is, a jealous girlfriend, but if they plan for her to betray Ramsay, it would be possible to make her LittlefingerĀ“s spy rather then Northern loyalist. Being LittlefingerĀ“s spy does not require to be a good person and it would be a fitting move from Mr."I know nothing about this bastard" if he knew all about Ramsay from the first hand and have his spy placed near Sansa. It would make him look very competent instead of clueless as he is looking now.

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It's the second time Stannis has made that correction, he corrected Davos on the Blackwater too. I think the "nevermind" was almost a subtle frustration that Davos still couldn't grasp it. :lol:

It was a nice touch.

I laughed out loud at that callback, but my husband didn't catch it the first time.

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nm

Edited by sj4iy

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I Jon is off to Hardhome, and Melisandre is going south, that should make Jon's final scene a surprise for most book reader theorists!


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But this is soemthing that has not been introduced on the show at all so I don't why people wouild think this?

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BOOK AND SHOW SPOILERS BELOW

I can't believe they killed Barristan. I figured he would be important later on, but I guess not? Who needs an experienced Kingsguard who knows the ways of war and knows Westeros really well when you have a Grey Worm love story? As much as I like Grey Worm, I felt he was more expendable. And Dany's reaction was horrible. She reminded me of the Mad King with that one.

Anyone else annoyed with the Bolton's assumption that Sansa is able to marry Ramsey? Uh, hello she's still married to Tyrion, he hasn't been found. She is also under suspicion for killing Joffrey. How is she able to be herself? The Boltons are allies to the Lannisters, shouldn't they have turned her in? It just doesn't make sense. At least in the books, she's pretending to be Littlefinger's bastard daughter who has never been married, and they (in secret) say that they have to wait for Tyrion to be killed before she can actually marry whats-his-face. I get why they are having Sansa in Winterfell rather than fArya, but it annoys me that they aren't even addressing the inconsistencies. I wonder where Theon will take her (if that even happens, who knows.) And Littlefinger just leaves her there with the Boltons? Oh, she'll be safe since they "need" her, disregard that Ramsey is psycho and Roose is a traitor.

I'm ok with deviations from the book if they don't change the overall plot and they make sense, but sometimes I think D&D just like to be shocking so they kill off semi-important characters just for the hell of it. At least in the books (most of) the deaths serve a purpose to further the plot.

I loved the scene where Sansa discovered Theon. Her face was perfect. I thought she was gonna kill him right there. The ending of the episode was good too, with the stone men and Drogon. Tyrion's face when he saw the dragon--amazing. However, Tyrion wasn't touched by the stone men but uh, didn't they grab his leg and pull him further underwater??

Valyria was gorgeous, I wonder where they filmed that scene.

1. The show is not as beholden to the books as it once was, and this includes in-world logic. While Sansa is still married to Tyrion, the marriage was never consummated. While we know a septon usually needs to nullify it, it's not exactly like we will have Tyrion riding along to object, as he's a wanted kinslayer, and Cersei, while she will certainly find out and object, is not going to send an army north to wrest her back from the Boltons. The show established this when Roose pointed out that the South wouldn't send an army that far North to help against Stannis, as they have never done in show canon history according to Roose. The crown would simply end its allegiance with the Bolton's, but what Roose seems to need now is the North's complete allegiance, which Sansa will help with, not the crown's (In show logic, not book :dunno: ).

To have this make any kind of sense, the show had to change the rules. It appears that Tywin Lannister's death somehow destroyed most of the Lannister power, according to Littlefinger, as the name is not what it "once was".

While the Lannister's are in a precarious position in the books currently, with enemies on all sides, and a lunatic in charge, they're nowhere near as badly off as Littlefinger says.

My ultimate point is that show logic and world consistency is not intrinsically tied to book logic and world consistency as it once was. Give out about it all you want, but I wouldn't fall into the trap of "that can't happen cos x"; the rules have changed, and will keep changing, and tbh, I can understand why they have altered some of the plot threads and consistency for this season. Having Sansa join Winterfell storyline has her story merge with a story the viewers are already familiar with. It also means not have to cast a whole new Vale story, and Sansa can interact with key, familiar characters.

Even though some of the inconsistencies irk me, I'm not as upset about them as I'd thought I'd be. The sansa winterfell merge is actually quite interesting, and for once I feel like the stories are able to breathe again, without having to fit too much in. I've accepted the inconsistencies as the inevitable ripple effect of plot changes, running out of source material for various characters, and budgetary and casting concerns. It's bad writing, but the show oddly enough still has me hooked.

Edited by GoldHandTheGood

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