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[Spoilers] EP505 Discussion

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It is not easy to climb up the Broken Tower in the case of emergency. It is not easy to light a candle either. And wouldn't the winter howling wind put it out within nanoseconds anyway? This is so stupid, my brain hurts. Yes, in case of emergency, do not go down fire escape. Play hopscotch in the corridor, then leap through some ring ropes, make a pirouette, sing the top song from the charts, play some video games and ... ah, wait a minute. I have been dead for a while.... Ah, well...

There seems to be more than one way to reach the tower. It was part of the keep after all and Cat was there investigating. She hardly climbed.

I assumed Sam would remain at the Wall but it looks like he might sail for Oldtown after all. Still, I'm not sure if we'll actually see it. It would require quite a bit in terms of world building on the show and the sets and maesters would not be easily shown.

A lot of complaining about Dany proposing. I have no problem with it. In the books, she's forced to do something she absolutely does not want to do, yet no one said anything about uncomfortable or rape. On the show, she tells Hizdar what will happen or he can remain where he it is. Same thing but all of a sudden it's a forced marriage. I suppose it's because it's different.....

I am really wondering how things will turn out with Stannis and his women while they are battling in the North. That really seems like a strange move and I'm not sure what's meant to happen other than trying to sacrifice Shireen for a victory.

Still, I enjoyed the episode and look forward to me re-watch.

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You can betray someone you care about for love, doesn't need an intro it happens all the time .

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As to Sansa and the candle. I think you are being more literal than I am. She could light the candle tonight to let Brienne know that yes I really do need your help, i just couldn't put you in danger at the inn with LF there.

It would be stupid and silly to think she would run up there while being chased and in immediate danger, sometimes common sense has to be used when interpreting things.

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Anyone else annoyed with the Bolton's assumption that Sansa is able to marry Ramsey? Uh, hello she's still married to Tyrion, he hasn't been found. She is also under suspicion for killing Joffrey. How is she able to be herself? The Boltons are allies to the Lannisters, shouldn't they have turned her in? It just doesn't make sense. At least in the books, she's pretending to be Littlefinger's bastard daughter who has never been married, and they (in secret) say that they have to wait for Tyrion to be killed before she can actually marry whats-his-face. I get why they are having Sansa in Winterfell rather than fArya, but it annoys me that they aren't even addressing the inconsistencies.

Er, they did address all that, in episode 503. Whether you think the explanations make sense or not (I don't, particularly). The Boltons are betraying the Lannisters, so they don't care what they think anymore, and Sansa's marriage to Tyrion is automatically invalid because they didn't have sex.

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Er, they did address all that, in episode 503. Whether you think the explanations make sense or not (I don't, particularly). The Boltons are betraying the Lannisters, so they don't care what they think anymore, and Sansa's marriage to Tyrion is automatically invalid because they didn't have sex.

it's a desperate move by the Boltons. Northern Lords hate them, and the Lannisters without Tywin are not a reliable ally. I doubt that Roose trusts Sansa or Littlefinger, but he doesn't have many good options.

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Er, they did address all that, in episode 503. Whether you think the explanations make sense or not (I don't, particularly). The Boltons are betraying the Lannisters, so they don't care what they think anymore, and Sansa's marriage to Tyrion is automatically invalid because they didn't have sex.

Sansa's marriage is not automatically invalid due to non consummation, at least not in the books, there has to be some legal procedure. But of course the show may have different rules though the outcome will be the same: Either the marriage being invalid in the show is one big red herring or the marriage will end in the books as well.

Actually the proper legal status of Sansa's marriage to Tyrion is of no importance simply because might makes right - until by whatever plot turn someone else sets the rules.

And for the story as a whole, for all those conspirators, Sansa and Tyrion being married or not is of no importance at all, they only don't know it yet. The characters only believe in its importance since Sansa is seen as heir. But she isn't. So for whatever power game her marital status is pointless.

And for Sansa's and Tyrion's personal fate it's pointless as well. These two will not live together if they don't want to, married or not. After all Sansa is rich and noble, she won't sink into poverty when she is still alive after all is said and done because she and her husband by law prefer to go separate ways.

Edited by Woman of War

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Well, if you are in danger, would you have time to climb it or the opportunity or a candle or a match? Wait a minute. They do not have matches. She needs time to light a fire. Shall I go on?

She could carry a lantern. They are a thing. Why do people get so hung up on dumb shit? This is what makes me crazy about this board at times.

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Wondering how the Miranda showing Theon to Sansa thing will play out with Ramsey.


Is Sansa suspicious of her?


Will Ram try and take Sans out for a Mira hunt?



I like how Sansa FINALLY got an opportunity for some leverage with Rams reaction to the new baby.



Hope she conspires with him to take out Fat Walda. Hope Walda does Something to make me not like her.



If Sansa goes darkside for a while, wonder how Theon will react to that.



I'm having fun thinking on it all...


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I liked Sansa's impression of Cersei at that meal, and Ramsay's bumbling obviously forced nice guy stuff.


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Sansa's marriage is not automatically invalid due to non consummation, at least not in the books, there has to be some legal procedure. But of course the show may have different rules

It does. Littlefinger explained that in episode 503.

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I Jon is off to Hardhome, and Melisandre is going south, that should make Jon's final scene a surprise for most book reader theorists!

See here. It would seem she is coming back. Her leaving the Wall temporarily and Jon journeying to Hardhome might amount to nothing more than filler in the end (i.e., Benioff and Weiss were bored reading Jon's chapters in A Dance with Dragons).

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When Aemon was talking about Dany being alone, I half thought he was going to say he needed to sail to Meereen, rather than Oldtown. I'm not sure if the show ever clarified whether he was actually a brother of the NW, or just the maester who was sworn to Castle Black and therefore free to leave (okay, he'd still be deserting the maesters, but its never been said that they have strict punishments for deserters). I'm not sure what justification could be used to get Sam and Gilly to join him, but something could've been thought up if necessary (maybe say that Volantis has a great library, and then have them get caught up in everything once they're there).



Since he didn't say anything about sailing anywhere though, except the Hardhome expedition, I'm not sure anyone's sailing anywhere.


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When Aemon was talking about Dany being alone, I half thought he was going to say he needed to sail to Meereen, rather than Oldtown. I'm not sure if the show ever clarified whether he was actually a brother of the NW, or just the maester who was sworn to Castle Black and therefore free to leave (okay, he'd still be deserting the maesters, but its never been said that they have strict punishments for deserters). I'm not sure what justification could be used to get Sam and Gilly to join him, but something could've been thought up if necessary (maybe say that Volantis has a great library, and then have them get caught up in everything once they're there).

Since he didn't say anything about sailing anywhere though, except the Hardhome expedition, I'm not sure anyone's sailing anywhere.

Oldtown has been mentioned too often for nobody to be going there.

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I loved that little boat ride poetry between Jorah and Tyrion.

Valyria was how I imagined it.

The attack by the stone men was just as terrifying as it was in the books, so all good there.

I thought Myranda was going to unleash the hounds on Sansa at the kennel, did anyone else think this?

Valyria was how you imagined it? I think you your mixing up the sorrows from the book and what the show portrayed as JM and Tyrion going through Valyria. Valyria is volcanic and full of smoke ,volcanic activity and is haunted. What i don't get is he images they created looked like the sorrows along the rhoyne but the show went out of their way to say they were taking a different route and said that that location was valyria. Most likely they want to reestablish tryions fascination with dragon's and their lore. So they use this drowning scene to reenergize his character.

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About those pies...



http://www.baxters.com/product/fray-bentos-classic-steak-and-kidney-pie



I think we are quite definitely going to see a pie and looking at the dining room scene this episode, I think fat Walder is likely to end up inside it and be fed to Roose and Walter.



Notice how everyone keeps saying 'the north remembers'...



And wouldn't it be a fitting end to the marriage feast?


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GoT is turning out to be a very poorly and sloppily written tv series.

Just as the book was written. Considering the source material of the fourth book, I'm surprised they found any story to tell at all. Are you really surprised that the pace is uneven? Look at the mess that GRRM has created. Oh sure it is big. It is sprawling. Mainly it's a bunch of second tier characters wondering around doing absolutely nothing.

By the way I saw where George's editor took to twitter to complain about the the death of Ser Barriston. Now that is something I would never admit to being. George's editor. You might want to make sure you never put that on your resume. :lmao:

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In the second S5 trailer we see Stannis and Davos running from burning tents... not boding well for House Baratheon. And Selyse on the ground crying pretty much confirms a Stannis defeat when you realise she is surrounded by standing men who have more than likely thrown her to the ground to make her surrender. I'm betting Melisandre gets away somehow, but hate to say that Stannis is probably going down this season.

Mel then makes it back to the wall because once Stannis is dead she realizes he's not AA reborn. She understands she needs to get back to Jon.

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Nope. I was smiling from one ear to the other. The only thing that would have made it better, is if Tyrion got it as well!

Also; at least for the mean time, all these people who keep posting that Jon will be brought back via Mel/Fire God...can go jump in a lake. The dude can not stand her or her god, either in the books or show. JON IS OLD GODS!

Not sure that it makes a difference. Beric is almost certainly an adherent of the Seven, but Thoros was able to bring him back several times...

My theory is that yes, Selyse tries to sacrifice Shireen, but Stannis decides to burn Selyse instead. :D

But Selyse doesn't have King's blood. Red Mel would see no advantage to burning her, especially since she's "a believer".

I can not understand how any sane person can like Deanerys. She certainly is one of the biggest hypocrites around, and is in general just a bad, entitled, narcissistic person that has not earned very much through any skill or hard work.

This ofcourse makes her the darling of Feminists.

What is funny is that Daenerys chooses an actual psychopathic, murdering, rapist over the brother who essentially raised her as a hard working single mother. This is the champion of Feminists worldwide.

You mean the brother who basically sold her into slavery, so he could get an army?

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Mereen:


Miss. & Greyworm have to mean something or we wouldn't be seeing them this much. I definitely think they will either aide Dany in some great way or will be the third betrayal.



I don't think Dany will go mad, but I do think that she needs a counselor near her to help her stay rational.. like maybe one of the other two 'heads' (Tyrion?)




Wall:


Curious to see Hardhome...I think Jon will make it back from Hardhome (if he really goes at all) but will come back to the wall to a letter from Ramsay, which will propel the 'for the watch..."



Mel will come back to the wall, the question is who will she come back with?



Starting to really love Stannis and Shireen and am scared for those characters...



Winterfell:


I'm really hoping Stannis can get to the Bolton's before the wedding night. Looks like we will be getting the wedding, which is unfortunate... but I do think Sansa will surprise us, in some way, when she realizes how much of a psycho Ramsay really is.



I think Brienne will either kill Stannis or have to let him go (because he will be fighting for Sansa's good)



I definitely think Brienne/Pod will team up with the North smallfolk and maybe the Northern lords and will be the ghosts of Winterfell



Other thoughts:


In the books, Euron has the horn that can supposedly control the dragons... I would assume that is needed so that Dany can have better control over them... so are we going to introduce the Iron Islands next season? Is it totally out? If so, who will have the horn?



I definitely think we are going to Oldtown now.... maybe we will learn about this horn there?

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I have generally been a fan of season 5, but this was my least favorite episode of the season. Things just kind of seemed clumsily put together. Like D&D trying to fit a bunch of square pegs into round holes. Maybe I'll like it better on a second viewing.

I do think they're doing a good job of showing Dany really start to lose her grip. I was watching the show with an unsullied, and she wisely noted "How can Dany handle the Iron Throne when she can't even keep her grip on that city." How indeed.

Interesting that Stannis is taking everyone with him. That will certainly add a new dynamic, but I think book Stannis' instincts are better.

Not a fan of Ramsey parading Theon/Reek around. Seemed idiotic of Ramsey. A happy Stark wife would lead to more north allegiance I imagine.

My take is that he knew the cat was out of the bag (thanks to Myranda) so he figured "what the hell" and decided to mess with both Reek and Sansa.

It could be that Roose chose that moment to reveal Walda's pregnancy because of his frustration with Ramsay's heavy handedness.

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