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Ran

[Spoilers] EP505 Discussion

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So, do they want to have Dany able to control the dragons or not? :dunno:

Still, that shot of the Master burning and being eaten was a pretty great piece of camera work and CGI.

Woo! Maester Aemon :wub: that was a wonderful scene. Can I adopt him? :p

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Please teach me: what is poorly written in AFFC? No no, even better: what is very poorly written? Please?

To start with, the apparent change in standard Westerosi vocabulary so that everyone says 'nuncle.' Next up we have every single one of Brienne's chapters being absurdly repetitive. Followed up by Cersei turning cartoonishly incompetent for no good reason, and Jamie going on adventures that don't amount to anything. And so on.

ETA: Going to a more meta level, there is the overarching problem that GRRM is great at starting stories but bad at concluding them. He keeps spinning the plot out wider and wider in AFFC and ADWD with no apparent clue as to how it will circle back to the main threads or even resolve itself.

Edited by Fez

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To start with, the apparent change in standard Westerosi vocabulary so that everyone says 'nuncle.' Next up we have every single one of Brienne's chapters being absurdly repetitive. Followed up by Cersei turning cartoonishly incompetent for no good reason, and Jamie going on adventures that don't amount to anything. And so on.

ETA: Going to a more meta level, there is the overarching problem that GRRM is great at starting stories but bad and concluding them. He keeps spinning the plot out wider and wider in AFFC and ADWD with no apparent clue as to how it will circle back to the main threads or even resolve itself.

Are you serious? You're saying that man who ended War of the Five Kings with Red Wedding is bad at concluding stories? Can we be not infantile please? As first, what you're saying is not bad writing. If you were right it would be bad structuring. But luckily you are not right at all. There is nothing repetitive in Brienne chapters for example. Please find me one repetitive motif in those chapters. As second Cersei is really not cartoonishly incompetent for no good reason. There is very good reason for her incompetence and that is that she never was competent at all and she is obsessed with being equal to Jaime but I guess you missed that too. As third Jaime's adventures don't amount to anything simply because his storyline is still not finished. But his AFFC chapters in Riverlands are thematically rich but to tell you the truth I just wrote about that yesterday in some thread and I'm sick of repeating that. Just because you didn't understand about what are those chapters it doesn't mean there is nothing of important in those chapters. But anyway have fun watching this stupid show if you like it that much.

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how the hell could they kill barristan before greyworm damn barristan was one of westeros finest swordsmen and they kill him off to some rich nobles in mereen thats not logic


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Heres my line of thinking on that. She knows that one of the families must be at the very least funding the Harpies. So she takes the heads of all the families down to threaten them with the dragons to get them to talk. She picks one shes confident about that's not the leader and feeds him as an example. The reaction is all the other masters bow before Hizdahr (or her hard to tell) almost like they are begging him to stop it before they all die. Or maybe its simply that he was the one who wasn't afraid. Either way she picks up on this. Stops the torture and sends them to their cells. She has her man. So what should she do. She kills him he becomes a martyr for the Harpies and they continue their attacks. If she proposes to him he thinks he's reaching his goal of becoming the top man and taking her down. The attacks stop as they aren't necessary anymore. She now has bought her time to formulate a plan to take down the entire organization at once, probably with the reopening of the pits.

I noticed that Hizdahr remained standing as well. But I think Dany decided to marry him because he's the one she knows the best and she believes him to be non-threatening. It also seems like they've established a fair amount of trust - he's petitioned her a number of times over things and sometimes she's listened to him, sometimes not. So I think she feels like she has a good grasp on his agenda.

There is a definite possibility that the show will reveal Hizdahr to be another schemer-politician. He definitely could have been lying about his father's culpability with the crucifixion, and he could be strongly linked to the SotH. But it would almost be more interesting if he's just a fairly nice guy who decided to work with Dany to try to reduce Mereenese bloodshed.

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Are you serious? You're saying that man who ended War of the Five Kings with Red Wedding is bad at concluding stories? Can we be not infantile please?

Firstly, the War of Five Kings isn't the story. Its part one of the story, and the fact that the Red Wedding was in book three of the story when it was supposed to in book one originally proves my point.

Secondly, name calling = *ignore*

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The show is now so different from the books that I'm beginning to wonder if they even have plans for the stories to converge. And what bothers me the most is that many of these changes are unnecessary.



Where do we start?


- Jojen is dead.


- Jon is going to Hardhome.


- Melisandre, Selyse and Shireen are all following Stannis to Winterfell.


- No mission for Davos.


- Mance is dead.


- No trip to Oldtown for Sam, Gilly and the Maester.


- No Jeyne and Sansa is marrying Ramsay.


- Balon Greyjoy is alive.


- His brothers are nowhere to be found.


- No Catelyn back from the dead.


- Ellaria now wants revenge.


- No older Tyrell brothers.


- No Arianne or Quentyn.


- Tyene is Ellaria's daughter.


- No Aegon.


- Ser Barristan is dead.


- Meereen is not attacked by the other slaver cities.



Why are they doing this? I don't have a problem with minor changes, like adding characters such as Olly or Myranda, but many of the changes have created a completely different story.


Edited by bloodsteel bitterraven

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Dany's being worked over by Missandei. No idea why unless Missandei is the Harpy on the show, but tonight Dany wondered how things had turned so bad, and Missandei said it was because Dany didn't listen to her advisors and that's why Dany's successful? And Dany bought that? Newsflash: Dany's a disaster, and Missandei is encouraging it. This is not book_Missandei. And that's why D&D showed too much Missandei and Grey Worm: not the romance, but Missandei's character. (Maybe she's not the Harpy, but something's going on with her.)

My interpretation was just that Missandei believes in Dany's goodness. Dany personally rescued Missandei, and has always treated her as a friend. Dany's advisors kept telling her to leave Slaver's Bay, and Dany kept insisting on freeing slaves and trying to establish a benign rule. So while Missandei has Dany up on a pedestal, I think Missandei also trusts the gut instincts of another young woman who hates slavery more than Missandei trusts the instincts of Westerosi knights, slavers, or mercenaries.

There might be something fishy going on with book Missandei (she's insanely gifted especially for her age, her sense of hearing is weirdly powerful, and after Dany disappeared she started reading all the time). But I don't think the show has yet established that there is something fishy going on with show Missandei. You may be right, but there is a benign explanation so far.

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To start with, the apparent change in standard Westerosi vocabulary so that everyone says 'nuncle.' Next up we have every single one of Brienne's chapters being absurdly repetitive. Followed up by Cersei turning cartoonishly incompetent for no good reason, and Jamie going on adventures that don't amount to anything. And so on.

ETA: Going to a more meta level, there is the overarching problem that GRRM is great at starting stories but bad at concluding them. He keeps spinning the plot out wider and wider in AFFC and ADWD with no apparent clue as to how it will circle back to the main threads or even resolve itself.

With all due respect, you need to reread that book.

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The scene when Sansa walks threw the kennels i was totally expecting to see the rotten corpse of Rob Stark and Graywind all up sowed together

ANYONE ELTS?

I totally thought that Miranda was going to try to sic the dogs on her somehow. Never even occurred to me that it could be a corpse or a Theon. (I knew Sansa wasn't going to be mauled, but I thought Myranda would try and Ramsay or somebody would intervene.)

Edited by Janicia

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She could carry a lantern. They are a thing. Why do people get so hung up on dumb shit? This is what makes me crazy about this board at times.

Yes, with a lantern, no one will see her. When in danger, that is important. It is clearly my error. TV show makes perfect sense. I just hope you will not apply these rules if in danger. :dunno:

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Are you serious? You're saying that man who ended War of the Five Kings with Red Wedding is bad at concluding stories? Can we be not infantile please? As first, what you're saying is not bad writing. If you were right it would be bad structuring. But luckily you are not right at all. There is nothing repetitive in Brienne chapters for example. Please find me one repetitive motif in those chapters. As second Cersei is really not cartoonishly incompetent for no good reason. There is very good reason for her incompetence and that is that she never was competent at all and she is obsessed with being equal to Jaime but I guess you missed that too. As third Jaime's adventures don't amount to anything simply because his storyline is still not finished. But his AFFC chapters in Riverlands are thematically rich but to tell you the truth I just wrote about that yesterday in some thread and I'm sick of repeating that. Just because you didn't understand about what are those chapters it doesn't mean there is nothing of important in those chapters. But anyway have fun watching this stupid show if you like it that much.

This coming from the person who is labeling people "show apologists" which is about as juvenile as you can get.

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Don't you love it when show apologists come and say that the books are poorly written? LOL that is priceless. This show is one of the poorest written shows in recent memory and its embarrassing as far as writing goes. On the other side someone may dislike the books but to say that they are written poorly is ridiculous. Nothing in the books doesn't come even close to crap from the show in terms of poor writing.

BUT AFFC IS AWFUL! IT'S BORING AND HAS THE WORD NUNCLE!

Now some Missandei-Grey Worm and dominatrix Sansa, that's true poetry. If only GRRM could learn from D&D.

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Firstly, the War of Five Kings isn't the story. Its part one of the story, and the fact that the Red Wedding was in book three of the story when it was supposed to in book one originally proves my point.

Secondly, name calling = *ignore*

But what is your point than? That Martin is guilty because he didn't finish story in fifth book of the series that is planned to have seven books? Can you please explain me that logic than?

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BUT AFFC IS AWFUL! IT'S BORING AND HAS THE WORD NUNCLE!

Now some Missandei-Grey Worm and dominatrix Sansa, that's true poetry. If only GRRM could learn from D&D.

Or Brienne because her story makes so much more sense in the show than in the books! And her dialogues with Pod! And his sexual power! What writing!

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BUT AFFC IS AWFUL! IT'S BORING AND HAS THE WORD NUNCLE!

Now some Missandei-Grey Worm and dominatrix Sansa, that's true poetry. If only GRRM could learn from D&D.

I would love to see Sansa the dominatrix. :leer: Especially towards Ramsway, but I'm not sure what show you're watching. Wearing all black =/= dominatrix.

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It is not easy to climb up the Broken Tower in the case of emergency. It is not easy to light a candle either. And wouldn't the winter howling wind put it out within nanoseconds anyway? This is so stupid, my brain hurts. Yes, in case of emergency, do not go down fire escape. Play hopscotch in the corridor, then leap through some ring ropes, make a pirouette, sing the top song from the charts, play some video games and ... ah, wait a minute. I have been dead for a while.... Ah, well...

In Brienne's defense, since candles are a common source of light, she needs a signal that will be distinct from regular day-to-day activity. All the easily accessible windows probably have candles in them all the time.

And presumably Sansa could ask a servant to light that candle on a pretext rather than go herself.

Edited by Janicia

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Comparing the show to AFFC is moot anyway. The show has essentially retained none of its plot and it's clear D&D didn't even read it.



And [people who say AFFC is bad are like the Star Wars fans that say Ep 4 is the worst for being the most "boring" and slow-paced.


Edited by HouseHarrison

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