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[Spoilers] EP505 Discussion

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Anyway, i'm done addressing you for the time being, because we're going in circles. Same thing to you ummester: we've had the same discussions in the Rant & Rave threads, where you kept coming and coming and derailing repeatedly.

How can this be derailing? It's what this thread is for - a discussion on the books vs the show.

I think that you and many book fans just don't want to embrace a balanced discussion about what works and fails with both presentations.

Edited by ummester

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How can this be derailing? It's what this thread is for - a discussion on the books vs the show.

Jesus, it's clear that i meant derailing in the "Rant and Rave" threads, not here. You're being dense on purpose, which is your specialty, apparently.

Good night!

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Jesus, it's clear that i meant derailing in the "Rant and Rave" threads, not here. You're being dense on purpose, which is your specialty, apparently.

Good night!

Yes, so here, where we should have this discussion logically and reasonably and you shy away from it. Why?

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How can this be derailing? It's what this thread is for - a discussion on the books vs the show.

I think that you and many book fans just don't want to embrace a balanced discussion about what is right and wrong with both presentations.

Umm.. I think book vs show belongs to a separate new thread.

Someone please make one.

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Fjordgazer,

Yes, the books have more internal logic than the show - I can admit that. They are complicated fantasy novels with a large focus on world and character building, if they didn't have an internal logic, their fans wouldn't like them.

Can you admit that AFFC and ADwD, relative to the 1st 3 books, took an unexplainably longer time to be written and contained many subplots and new characters that did not always seem directly related to the narratives set up in the 1st 3 books?

Well of course that it is true. Anyone with brain can see that books 4 and 5 are different than first three. But conclusion that GRRM lost his focus is absurd. He changed his mind about five year gap and he's trying to bridge two ends of his original story. That is definitely not similar to losing focus. All I see in books 4 and 5 is that he's setting things up for the final two books. In fact AFFC and ADWD in the series have same role as ACOK in the first three books. In ACOK the story also got bigger and it looked like resolution of the War of the Five Kings was only further away. But when ASOS came it showed that some parts of ACOK were set-ups for resolution to war. Years ago when I was finishing ACOK I was tricked by some readers into thinking Theon's story is filler and they were also annoyed with Stannis because they thought that his story was taking away from the main storyline which was about Starks and Lannisters. Of course once I read ASOS I saw how ridiculous they were. And this parroting about AFFC and ADWD looks like the same thing to me and I can't wait for TWOW so that people stop with this ridiculous statements that GRRM lost his focus. And no, the time it takes to write this books is really not unexplainable unless you managed to miss everything that GRRM managed to include in them.

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I supported D&D this long, but I just can't. I CAN NOT bear this Dany arc.

She is supposed to be confused and mad and desperate when she wants to somehow restore peace.

Instead she marches to him and says "I will reopen the pits & will marry you"

Totally out of context and crazy.

WTF !!

So much shit in this frikkin episode about Dany.

What next D&D? Cercei coming up and saying "High Sparrow, Arrange a naked walk for me bitch"

They did that to make her seem more affirmative and in control - more a WIP.

She fed that dude to her dragons coz she was emotionally stressed about Barriston. When that emotional stress passed, she calmed down and became her assertive WIP show self.

Your wife has never gotten all hormonal on you and then come in after and said 'sorry' in an ultra guff voice? :D

It's consistent characterisation, it's just not exactly the same as the book.

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This is what I am talking about. GRRM has lost his focus. Maybe he simply lost interest or maybe he is just have a hard time settling down enough to really think about where he truly wants to go with this. I also think that this is partially the editor's and publisher's fault. Maybe he feels that if he writes enough words and puts in all sorts of prophecies and red herrings, no one will notice the problems of the last books.

I agree that the last two books have a lack of focus but instead of fixing it and try to make the stories more focus D&D make the most puzzling changes that muddle things up even more instead of clearing it up.

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They did that to make her seem more affirmative and in control - more a WIP.

She fed that dude to her dragons coz she was emotionally stressed about Barriston. When that emotional stress passed, she calmed down and became her assertive WIP show self.

Your wife has never gotten all hormonal on you and then come in after and said 'sorry' in an ultra guff voice? :D

It's consistent characterisation, it's just not exactly the same as the book.

Hehe, not there yet.

WIP is highly overdone these days :(

Anyway I would be ok if she agreed to Daario if they wanted this WIP shit.

But why in frikkin hell does she want to reopen the pits? And this stupid fucked up dialogue. She roasted a master. Why would a any human make this dumb decision..

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Well of course that it is true. Anyone with brain can see that books 4 and 5 are different than first three. But conclusion that GRRM lost his focus is absurd. He changed his mind about five year gap and he's trying to bridge two ends of his original story. That is definitely not similar to losing focus. All I see in books 4 and 5 is that he's setting things up for the final two books. In fact AFFC and ADWD in the series have same role as ACOK in the first three books. In ACOK the story also got bigger and it looked like resolution of the War of the Five Kings was only further away. But when ASOS came it showed that some parts of ACOK were set-ups for resolution to war. Years ago when I was finishing ACOK I was tricked by some readers into thinking Theon's story is filler and they were also annoyed with Stannis because they thought that his story was taking away from the main storyline which was about Starks and Lannisters. Of course once I read ASOS I saw how ridiculous they were. And this parroting about AFFC and ADWD looks like the same thing to me and I can't wait for TWOW so that people stop with this ridiculous statements that GRRM lost his focus. And no, the time it takes to write this books is really not unexplainable unless you managed to miss everything that GRRM managed to include in them.

I was never suggesting he lost focus - only that he expanded beyond his original plan, possibly as a result of the HBO deal and now that expansion is beyond what the show can cater for. So this season, season 5, is going to bring out the greatest difference because the show is refining at the point the books were expanding.

I think S6 will be similar to TWoW and Season 7 similar to A Time for Wolves ADoS but right here, in season 5, everyone will be like what the fuck is going on?

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I was never suggesting he lost focus - only that he expanded beyond his original plan, possibly as a result of the HBO deal and now that expansion is beyond what the show can cater for. So this season, season 5, is going to bring out the greatest difference because the show is refining at the point the books were expanding.

I think S6 will be similar to TWoW and Season 7 similar to A Time for Wolves ADoS but right here, in season 5, everyone will be like what the fuck is going on?

You're wrong again because he wrote AFFC before D&D approached him. In fact he looks determined to be not influenced by HBO either way. And you're predictably wrong about the show because it isn't refining. Not with all the nonsense like Grey Worm + Missandei and dinner with Boltons. If anything it is the show that is losing focus though that is nothing new for D&D.

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Hehe, not there yet.

WIP is highly overdone these days :(

Anyway I would be ok if she agreed to Daario if they wanted this WIP shit.

But why in frikkin hell does she want to reopen the pits? And this stupid fucked up dialogue. She roasted a master. Why would a any human make this dumb decision..

She had her dummy spit, calmed down, thought it through and realised that Hizzadar (or whatever) may be right and some traditions need to be embraced.

As for why would a human make the dumb decision to roast a master, well, she's not quite human - she's a genetically enhanced dragonlord that can survive fires (in the show) and thinks her children are dragons. Before the series is done, I'm sure Dany will fully embrace her reign of fire destiny and more than a single master will be devoured by her babies.

Edited by ummester

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You're wrong again because he wrote AFFC before D&D approached him. In fact he looks determined to be not influenced by HBO either way. And you're predictably wrong about the show because it isn't refining. Not with all the nonsense like Grey Worm + Missandei and dinner with Boltons. If anything it is the show that is losing focus though that is nothing new for D&D.

Some of this stuff is a matter of interpretation and opinion, so arguing it is pointless.

Grey Worm and Missandei is about target audiences/demographics and that kind of stuff, it's the price we have to pay when something reaches mainstream popularity. I don't think they are necessary either, though I do think the Missandei actress is nice eye candy and understand that without them the show probably wouldn't get the budget it does, They are a necessary evil on the show.

Dinner with the Boltons may be something from TWoW, or something that was originally planned for TWoW - we just don't know. But that scene was cool. It was funny and Roose just owned in it.

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She had her dummy spit, calmed down, thought it through and realised that Hizzadar (or whatever) may be right and some traditions need to be embraced.

As for why would a human make the dumb decision to roast a master, well, she's not quite human - she's a genetically enhanced dragonlord that can survive fires (in the show) and thinks her children are dragons. Before the series is done, I'm sure Dany will fully embrace her reign of fire destiny and more than a single master will be devoured by her babies.

The mad queen then...

Hope D&D are planning to that then. Hope they dont make a 180 turn again and make her the "most lovable adorable queen".

The slaves hate her, the masters hate her. Hope they just do not magically change that in an instant.

Hope at the end of season 7, I can say well that made sense

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Some of this stuff is a matter of interpretation and opinion, so arguing it is pointless.

Grey Worm and Missandei is about target audiences/demographics and that kind of stuff, it's the price we have to pay when something reaches mainstream popularity. I don't think they are necessary either, though I do think the Missandei actress is nice eye candy and understand that without them the show probably wouldn't get the budget it does, They are a necessary evil on the show.

Dinner with the Boltons may be something from TWoW, or something that was originally planned for TWoW - we just don't know. But that scene was cool. It was funny and Roose just owned in it.

It must be great to have your focus determined by demographics and target audiences. Way to go D&D. Or with pretty actresses that are meant to be eye candy. Really, can adaptation be better than that? Isn't every author dreaming to have his books adapted into marketing project? And about Bolton, no, it will never be something from TWOW. Not only that it would make zero logic but you have to consider that so far Martin never wrote anything that is as poorly written as that scene. Unlike D&D Martin actually knows how to write dialogues and character interactions.

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Hope at the end of season 7, I can say well that made sense

So do I, trust me - so do I. If it all turns to shit, I will become a Rant and Raver against the show :D

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So do I, trust me - so do I. If it all turns to shit, I will become a Rant and Raver against the show :D

It will be too late then believe me, because the show will be over. What you could do in that case is to ask yourself how could you possibly ignore all those signs that the show is really rubbish.

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The mad queen then...

Hope D&D are planning to that then. Hope they dont make a 180 turn again and make her the "most lovable adorable queen".

The slaves hate her, the masters hate her. Hope they just do not magically change that in an instant.

Hope at the end of season 7, I can say well that made sense

Well, IIRC, she's loved and called 'Mhysa' again by the people after she opens the pits in the book so........

Edited by Polo

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It will be too late then believe me, because the show will be over. What you could do in that case is to ask yourself how could you possibly ignore all those signs that the show is really rubbish.

We can be a little optimistic you know..

Agreed the show now is shit. When d&d dont have the books they are following all cliches. Women in power to keep the women watching GoT. Revenges playing out smoothly, More tities and swords to get the men to watch. They suck big time without GRRMs backing.

But... What if the story that D&D are writing turns out to be a good "alternative" story in the end. The shit we are seeing now may make sense then (the probability may be low). Anyway I have my fingers crossed the shit pit doesnt fill up.

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Well, IIRC, she's loved and called 'Mhysa' again by the people after she opens the pits in the book so........

Uh uh.

Different circumstances.

She never punishes innocents just for fun or to send a message.

She randomly chooses a master who may be absolutely innocent and is happy seeing him burn. No regrets. Wtf!?

Did Barristans last words mean nothing to her? Now I agree he frikkin died in vain.

Just accept bullshit when you see it..

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Uh uh.

Different circumstances.

She never punishes innocents just for fun or to send a message.

She randomly chooses a master who may be absolutely innocent and is happy seeing him burn. No regrets. Wtf!?

Did Barristans last words mean nothing to her? Now I agree he frikkin died in vain.

Just accept bullshit when you see it..

I would go into discussing this with you but there really is no point. You're set in your "opinion".

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