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[Spoilers] EP505 Discussion

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It must be great to have your focus determined by demographics and target audiences. Way to go D&D. Or with pretty actresses that are meant to be eye candy. Really, can adaptation be better than that? Isn't every author dreaming to have his books adapted into marketing project? And about Bolton, no, it will never be something from TWOW. Not only that it would make zero logic but you have to consider that so far Martin never wrote anything that is as poorly written as that scene. Unlike D&D Martin actually knows how to write dialogues and character interactions.

Some of these things are the nature of the commercial art beast. Art for arts sake, commercial art for profits sake. Most authors want to be published and most published authors want to hit the big time, but there is always a price.

If you write a book and I front the money to publish it, its only fair that I have some say in what needs to be changed, because its my investment.

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We can be a little optimistic you know..

Agreed the show now is shit. When d&d dont have the books they are following all cliches. Women in power to keep the women watching GoT. Revenges playing out smoothly, More tities and swords to get the men to watch. They suck big time without GRRMs backing.

But... What if the story that D&D are writing turns out to be a good "alternative" story in the end. The shit we are seeing now may make sense then (the probability may be low). Anyway I have my fingers crossed the shit pit doesnt fill up.

They will end up at the place GRRM planned things to end back when he signed the show. The details may be different but the broad strokes and ideas will be GRRMs.

Of course, GRRM may be writing towards a slightly different ending now - which may be improved on the one he described to D&D, or may not. This is why I always suggest we really cant tell which narrative is better overall until all is said and done in both show and books.

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The stonemen.... that was even worse than the skeletons from S04E10. Very LOTR-like, and very lame.



This is not the kind of fantasy GRRM should be writing i.m.h.o. I have no problems with dragons, as such animals could exist and they the writers don't use them too often.


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The stonemen.... that was even worse than the skeletons from S04E10. Very LOTR-like, and very lame.

This is not the kind of fantasy GRRM should be writing i.m.h.o. I have no problems with dragons, as such animals could exist and they the writers don't use them too often.

The skeletons in 410 sucked - they shrieked, which is utterly fucking ridiculous because they didn't have lungs :D

As for whether Stonemen are more plausible than dragons - I'm thinking that the ability to breath fire is far more fantastical than a skin disease which kills the victim. Just try and consider the physics of containing the type of heat needed for fire inside a living body - it's pretty out there. But the dragons look cool, except for 502 puppy dog eye Drogon, so, meh, you go with it.

In a way, you put up with demographically inspired subplots like the love affair of a dickless man, so that HBO has the budget to make cool looking dragons.

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1. The show is not as beholden to the books as it once was, and this includes in-world logic. While Sansa is still married to Tyrion, the marriage was never consummated. While we know a septon usually needs to nullify it, it's not exactly like we will have Tyrion riding along to object, as he's a wanted kinslayer, and Cersei, while she will certainly find out and object, is not going to send an army north to wrest her back from the Boltons. The show established this when Roose pointed out that the South wouldn't send an army that far North to help against Stannis, as they have never done in show canon history according to Roose. The crown would simply end its allegiance with the Bolton's, but what Roose seems to need now is the North's complete allegiance, which Sansa will help with, not the crown's (In show logic, not book :dunno: ).

To have this make any kind of sense, the show had to change the rules. It appears that Tywin Lannister's death somehow destroyed most of the Lannister power, according to Littlefinger, as the name is not what it "once was".

While the Lannister's are in a precarious position in the books currently, with enemies on all sides, and a lunatic in charge, they're nowhere near as badly off as Littlefinger says.

Ok, I can accept the new "show rules" that invalidate the marriage between Tyrion and Sansa, I guess. I apparently missed the convo about that.

But what I can't accept is that Cersei is sending people (or asking people) for Tyrion's head, and she has no idea where he is. If she knows where Sansa is, and believes she helped Tyrion kill her son, the king, why isn't she pursuing that as well? If I missed another convo with Cersei explaining herself then I apologize. This season isn't sucking me in as much as the previous ones.

I can definitely tell that they aren't using GRRM writing for a lot of the show now, some of the dialogue this season makes me cringe. At least in previous seasons they were using a lot of lines from the books, or having GRRM writing the episode itself. Still a good show, for now....

I'm gonna have to reread these books. I've only read them once (recently finished) and I'm already mixing up the plot lines between the books and the show. I wish they would stick to the story GRRM laid out for them, although I do appreciate some things D&D added--my favorite addition being Cat's confrontation of Littlefinger after Ned's execution. I was hoping for that the entire time reading those books up until she died.

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But what I can't accept is that Cersei is sending people (or asking people) for Tyrion's head, and she has no idea where he is. If she knows where Sansa is, and believes she helped Tyrion kill her son, the king, why isn't she pursuing that as well? If I missed another convo with Cersei explaining herself then I apologize.

Cersei doesn't know where Sansa is.

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Miranda has the pointiest hip bones I've ever seen on a non-skeletal woman.

:agree: That's all I could focus on during that scene.

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Cersei doesn't know where Sansa is.

Are we sure? And even if she doesn't that doesn't mean she won't find out. Where would Sansa go? The Vale or Winterfell would be most people's first guess. It's not like they are doing anything to hide her identity. Anyone could take her and bring her to Cersei in hopes for whatever reward she is offering for Tyrion's head. Are the Frey's still loyal to the crown? Idk, maybe it makes sense to some people, I can't wrap my head around it.

Spoiler: Maybe Cersei will find out right when Theon helps her escape. If that happens.

Edited by skrause88

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It's funny that people complain about HBO using beautiful actresses or eye candy. This is the same HBO that airs Girls with Lena Dunham, and people complain about her being naked and not pretty!

Bitchers are going to bitch no matter what happens.

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The mad queen then...

Hope D&D are planning to that then. Hope they dont make a 180 turn again and make her the "most lovable adorable queen".

The slaves hate her, the masters hate her. Hope they just do not magically change that in an instant.

Hope at the end of season 7, I can say well that made sense

I think this was sort of the point. Barristan is gone and Missendei is a yes woman. Hizdahr spoke out against her and he seems to be on a leash now. Unless he's a great actor I don't think he is the Harpy. I think Daario may be the Harpy in the show. But the Valar Morghulis in the dragon pit makes me wonder if he could be the one to put a hit on the dragons. Dany has to learn that she can't just give in to get love from her people. Perhaps their adoration is not that important in a decision maker, its their respect. Dany is learning that the Queen fantasy she had (and the same one Sansa had in the book) is not real. She can't be unanimously loved. She is not a saviour. And Tyrion will be the punctuation mark in that plot when he turns up with his acerbic sarcasm and sees the mess.

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I think Daario may be the Harpy in the show.

Why would a random foreign mercenary be the leader of a Meereenese slaver terrorist group?

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Ok, I can accept4 the new "show rules" that invalidate the marriage between Tyrion and Sansa, I guess. I apparently missed the convo about that.

But what I can't accept is that Cersei is sending people (or asking people) for Tyrion's head, and she has no idea where he is. If she knows where Sansa is, and believes she helped Tyrion kill her son, the king, why isn't she pursuing that as well? If I missed another convo with Cersei explaining herself then I apologize. This season isn't sucking me in as much as the previous ones.

Does Show Cersei believe that Sansa has something to do with Joffrey's murder? I could be wrong, but I think she blames Tyrion only. Of course, I didn't do a season 4 re-watch before season 5 started so I could be wrong.

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Miranda has the pointiest hip bones I've ever seen on a non-skeletal woman.

YES! , it looked like she had broken a bone and it was trying to poke through her skin ahah

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Why would a random foreign mercenary be the leader of a Meereenese slaver terrorist group?

1. Dany places unwavering trust in him. As you say, he is a mercenary and not random he is Dany's lover. Who is to say he can't see monetary advantage in conspiring? He beheaded the other leaders of the Second sons remember. This guy is not the most loyal of men.

2. We know he supports the old slavery traditions like the fighting pits but it seems to be glossed over. He did well out of slavery it seems.

3. There is growing background tension between Daario and Hizdahr, seemingly to make Hizdahr look guilty but I get the impression he is a diversion.

4. Daario's tour with Grey Worm about how they don't know fear. Or was he just in on the Harpy's tactics?

5. The reveal would be the end of Dany in Mereen, she fed an innocent man to dragons while making others watch and fear for their lives. She targeted the old families with no real evidence, just suspicion. This is after killing over 100 of them without mercy or trial. If it turns out it wasn't actually them? It would be Barristan's words coming back to bite her in the ass which seems to be a theme this year. She disgraced everything he stood for this episode and Barristan will be right.

6. The insurgency isn't going to stop after this episode. Her dragon horror won't stop it. So either the Old families are suicidal or she's threatened the wrong people.

7. Hizdahr is our only face of the old families and if he is meant to represent them then they are bricking it. The reveal of the leaders of the Sons of the Harpy will be of someone we recognise. Hizdahr has been too obvious.

8. This began after he returned from negotiating with slavers who wanted slavers bay back and the only condition was the fighting pits? Deal done?

Edited by AryaNymeriaVisenya

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5. The reveal would be the end of Dany in Mereen, she fed an innocent man to dragons while making others watch and fear for their lives. She targeted the old families with no real evidence, just suspicion. This is after killing over 100 of them without mercy or trial. If it turns out it wasn't actually them? It would be Barristan's words coming back to bite her in the ass which seems to be a theme this year. She disgraced everything he stood for this episode and Barristan will be right.

6. The insurgency isn't going to stop after this episode. Her dragon horror won't stop it. So either the Old families are suicidal or she's threatened the wrong people.

7. Hizdahr is our only face of the old families and if he is meant to represent them then they are bricking it. The reveal of the leaders of the Sons of the Harpy will be of someone we recognise. Hizdahr has been too obvious.

The Sons of the Harpy are entirely about the interests of the slaver class. It's them. It makes no sense otherwise.

We also don't know that there is a "Harpy", either in the books or the show. There's thus far been no suggestion that there's any individual leader.

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Why would a random foreign mercenary be the leader of a Meereenese slaver terrorist group?

He's not.

I would say that if there is indeed a Harpy it would be the prostitute that was present at both the attacks against Dany's people. She was directly responsible to White Rat's murder and she directed the Unsullied into the ambush. I'm certain that she is playing a role in the terrorist organization, that they have decided to showcase her says to me that it's an important role.

ETA: He can be in cahoots with the SoH but he's not one of the leaders.

Edited by MoIaF

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The Sons of the Harpy are entirely about the interests of the slaver class. It's them. It makes no sense otherwise.

We also don't know that there is a "Harpy", either in the books or the show. There's thus far been no suggestion that there's any individual leader.

See point 8. What slavers? Maybe its not the slavers in Mereen.

He's not.

I would say that if there is indeed a Harpy it would be the prostitute that was present at both the attacks against Dany's people. She was directly responsible to White Rat's murder and she directed the Unsullied into the ambush. I'm certain that she is playing a role in the terrorist organization, that they have decided to showcase her says to me that it's an important role.

ETA: He can be in cahoots with the SoH but he's not one of the leaders.

I think that she like Hizdahr is just meant to be a totemic representation of her type of people. Not just prostitutes but former slaves who could be doing worse under Dany. She is to show that the problem is rife from the top right down.

Notice how Daario says the Second sons interact with the people? 'My second sons on the other hand, drink, whore, fight in streets, they blend in, they overhear things in taverns and follow people from the taverns to a nice quiet alley, break a few fingers, overhear a few more things and before you know it...'

Edited by AryaNymeriaVisenya

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She fed an innocent man to dragons while making others watch and fear for their lives. She targeted the old families with no real evidence, just suspicion. This is after killing over 100 of them without mercy or trial. If it turns out it wasn't actually them? It would be Barristan's words coming back to bite her in the ass which seems to be a theme this year. She disgraced everything he stood for this episode and Barristan will be right.

Finally.. Atleast one person who noticed this..

Dany as a badass is fine.

But Dany suddenly turning into Mad Queen and killing innocents is stupid.

Why does no one see this or even bother that the character (with good morals) was butchered in minutes?

Edited by robasp2

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How anyone can claim that Sansa in Winterfell is good writing is beyond me... I mean, ignoring the ridiculousness of BatFinger's plan, has Sansa been taking stupid pills? Shouldn't she be acting charming and confident, a bit like Margaery? Instead, she's sulking and refusing toasts. If they're going to go with this 'make him yours' approach shouldn't she actually be doing that? Like, she should be making the toasts, playing nice with Ramsey and Roose and Walda, being suspicious of a random old lady who claims she's on her side. Just a 'thank you Lord Bolton, or should I call you Father?' and a smile. Or a 'It does feel a little strange to be back in Winterfell, Lady Walda, but I'm sure with a little time it will feel like home again.' I mean, I despise that they're supposedly playing it this way, but they could at least do it properly. Oh, and Sansa might appear smarter if she doesn't just walk down a dark kennel because some random girl told her to.



The show can't just say 'Sansa's getting/gotten smarter' and not show that. And if they make Sansa have sex with Ramsey and try to pass it off as empowering, I will stop watching. This all just feels like an excuse to show Sophie Turner naked.



Also, Brienne just trusts any Tom, Dick or Harry in this show doesn't she? It's like 'hey, random man who I just met and have spoken to for 20 seconds, could you perform a highly dangerous mission for me? Thanks. I know you won't inform Lord Bolton, because the plot demands it.'



Speaking of Boltons... Roose's speech to Ramsey at the end fell a bit flat. Maybe, I don't know, an iconic line might have helped there? Knowing D&D though, it will become 'don't make me lament the hour when I took your mother without consent.'



Tyrion seeing the dragon was nice, as was that poem(?) about Valyria. It's just a shame that Valyria looked like it actually might be quite nice, if they did it up a bit. And if people stopped sending people with Greyscale there.



The actress who plays Myranda needs a good, long... sandwich. Actually, about 30 of them. That whole scene I was just watching her hip bone. No wonder she's so blasé around Ramsey; she can just stab him at any time with it.



Stannis is quickly becoming the best thing about the show. I'm loving grammar Nazi Stannis.



Grissandei... I don't hate it. In fact, in another story, it might prove interesting. Exploring the themes of love and affection between a man and a woman without sex? I'm down for that. But not here. Just cut it out please. It's filler. And I know people like to claim that D&D are essentially giving the last two books the edit they need, but that's hard to even remotely agree with when they keep adding their own filler.



So Dany is going to rape Hizdahr? I mean, he wasn't given a choice. And I know that the show won't portray it that way, but it will be rape. Also, the show is actually making me root for Hizdahr. I mean, Dany comes into the city and: kills his father, refuses to allow his father to be buried until he begs her, arrests him and kills someone he knows without trial or evidence of guilt, and then forces him to marry her. Not going to lie, I kind of hope he sticks a knife into her.


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