Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Ran

[Spoilers] EP505 Discussion

Recommended Posts

Hizdahr and Daario start the season returning from a city that overthrew the people Dany had left in charge. Their demand was only to open the fighting pits which seems too little for peace.

The scene I am mentioning is Daario and Grey Worm looking or Sons of the Harpy behind a Wall that Daario magically finds because he 'knows fear'!

Hizdahr and Daario start the season returning from a city that overthrew the people Dany had left in charge. Their demand was only to open the fighting pits which seems too little for peace.

The scene I am mentioning is Daario and Grey Worm looking or Sons of the Harpy behind a Wall that Daario magically finds because he 'knows fear'!

yes they comeback from there and iam speaking after that did we see or hear anything about them again..dont you think last episode would have been a good time to bring about the coming armies from yunkai..which leaves dany to make peace with harpies and marrying hizdar ..but they totally changed the dynamic of the marriage .and not to forget Ser barristan is dead if there was the battle that would have been the where he would have died

and iam telling that after Darrio help finding the harpy his men were attacked and killed in episode 4 ..incase you havent noticed that the persons the harpies killed are Second sons who like Darrio said blending in drinking and whoring only to get their throat sliced

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm still leaning towards the (yet) unnamed prostitute that was on scene when the first Unsullied was murdered.

Harpies are by definition, female and I think that the "Sons" of the Harpy are following her. She might be one of the Graces, if D & D ever decide to pursue that avenue.

I think she is too low profile to really be the ringleader. A prostitute with no lines?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You are labouring under the mistaken notion that LF is meant to be smart.

That's true. In the books, LF and Varys are clearly both meant to be incredibly smart; but they really are quite alike (in fact, the only real difference is the possibility that Varys tells Kevan the truth and does care about the realm rather than his own advancement). Whereas in the show, it seems D&D wanted to have more differences between the two, so Varys is still meant to be incredibly smart but LF is meant to be a gambler (whose gambles have paid off thus far) rather than smart.

Edited by Fez

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the question should be what is that Harpies want not who the harpy is because i believe it to be a legion and never under the control of one person



we all quick to criticize dany for burning the master neglecting the advice of ser barristan..but lets look back we see Dany gives a fair trial to Son of the harpy and when he gets murdered she beheads the one that she freed and a member of her council..and slaves are not happy about it ..one would think that would make the sons happy but instead they go and kill again ...one can argue thats because of the traditions that dany wont allow but then again we see them attacking again in the pit ...so all they want is old ways that is to kill dany and enslave people


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
BatFinger's plan is stupid. It puts Sansa in an extraordinary amount of danger that is unnecessary. If BatFinger wants Sansa to ally with whoever comes out on top between Stannis and the Boltons, why not wait in the Vale until one of them wins and, voila. Send her to the winner and he achieves the same without putting her in danger from the Boltons or the inevitable battle. That doesn't require a 'smart' character. A character of average intelligence could work that out. But everyone in-show ignores it because BatFinger is meant to be seen as an intelligent character.

Because if he waits, Roose will just marry Ramsey off to another banner house to secure his position and get allies against Stannis. Waiting might -- might -- work well enough if Stannis wins. But if the Boltons win and marry Ramsey before the battle, that opportunity will be lost.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That's true. In the books, LF and Varys are clearly both meant to be incredibly smart; but they really are quite alike (in fact, the only real difference is the possibility that Varys tells Kevan the truth and does care about the realm rather than his own advancement). Whereas in the show, it seems D&D wanted to have more differences between the two, so Varys is still meant to be incredibly smart but LF is meant to be a gambler (whose gambles have paid off thus far) rather than smart.

Hmm, I think there's more to it that that, but you are on to something.

Although I do NOT want to Godwin the thread, Hitler has been described in a similar context in his style of diplomacy. The historian AJP Taylor once described Hitler in the context of a gambler, but then sort of tore it down by pointing to all of Hitler's miscalculations both before and during the war.

That's because until the fall of France, I think Hitler and Littlefinger share a key component in their diplomacy: they wait for an opportunity, and then exploit it. But they don't go all in unless they're pretty certain of the ground they're on. If they face serious opposition, they drop the matter entirely and wait for the next opportunity, and appear that they were never heavily invested.

In other words, they weren't as good as they appeared to be, they just made it appear as if the plans they followed through on were the ones they were following all along -- when in fact they were just throwing things at the wall to see what stuck.

It's not that Littlefinger isn't smart, he is: he's just not as smart as the audience might believe, which is impossibly smart. He has a myth about him that he knows everything, and he doesn't -- because there's just too much to know.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The SotH-affiliated prostitute isn’t the Harpy – Mereen is too hierarchical a society for the leader of an upper class resistance movement to be literally working as a low-end prostitute (she was working as a prostitute long enough to have that Unsullied as a regular customer, we see her entertaining a client again in the bazaar). The prostitute is a low-level supporter of the movement.



Dario isn’t the Harpy. He doesn’t have the Mereenese connections to be organizing a resistance movement for them. But it is interesting that he seems to have set up an intelligence service for Dany. He might have contacts in the movement. My guess is that he will turn on Dany in seasons 5 or 6, but maybe not.



Hizdahr might be the Harpy, but more likely is just a member of the movement / knows the right people. I think it makes for a better story if he’s just a decent guy trying to steer a sane path for his city in the face of chaos, than if he’s another Littlefinger.



Since those are the only options, I doubt the show is going to introduce us to The Harpy – more likely it will always be a grassroots group that we don’t fully understand.




So at the end of season 5, Dany loses control of Mereen and flies away, leaving Tyrion, Jorah, Dario, Missandei, Grey Worm, and Hizdahr. A member or two of Dany’s entourage might die or otherwise exit the story in the season finale. Any thoughts on how the dragons get out of the crypts without Quentyn? I guess Hizdahr or Dario could try to steal them, but after this week's episode, I doubt either would be so stupid.



In season 6, the show could pick up with Dany pointed toward Westeros and we never go back to Mereen. Tyrion and whomever else survives from Mereen could get on those boats and Dany could join them. Or whatever. In that case, we definitely don’t need The Harpy.



Alternatively, season 6 might open up with more Mereen presumably with Tyrion facing off against either Hizdahr or Dario. Maybe Missandei throws a wrench into things if she stops hero-worshipping Dany. In this case, presumably the Sons of the Harpy would continue to be a relevant faction in season 6.


Edited by Janicia

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I supported D&D this long, but I just can't. I CAN NOT bear this Dany arc.

She is supposed to be confused and mad and desperate when she wants to somehow restore peace.

Instead she marches to him and says "I will reopen the pits & will marry you"

Totally out of context and crazy.

WTF !!

So much shit in this frikkin episode about Dany.

What next D&D? Cercei coming up and saying "High Sparrow, Arrange a naked walk for me bitch"

Maybe she decided to finally take the advice of Barriston and head home, but before she does leaves wants to set someone else up to rule?

My first thought upon watching her propose was WTF, that makes no sense at all.

Basically give him his fighting pits, give him a marriage pack your bags and leave. At least someone will still be there to rule.

It really doesnt make a lot of sense, but if they are going to cut the battle, and possibly change the fighting pit scene, they have to come up with something.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I supported D&D this long, but I just can't. I CAN NOT bear this Dany arc.

She is supposed to be confused and mad and desperate when she wants to somehow restore peace.

Instead she marches to him and says "I will reopen the pits & will marry you"

Totally out of context and crazy.

WTF !!

So much shit in this frikkin episode about Dany.

What next D&D? Cercei coming up and saying "High Sparrow, Arrange a naked walk for me bitch"

Had D&D not given agency to Dany in that decision, not made it her own plan, people would be much more fed up with Dany than they currently are. This way she has made a decision.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But what I can't accept is that Cersei is sending people (or asking people) for Tyrion's head, and she has no idea where he is. If she knows where Sansa is, and believes she helped Tyrion kill her son, the king, why isn't she pursuing that as well? If I missed another convo with Cersei explaining herself then I apologize. This season isn't sucking me in as much as the previous ones.

Unless I am mistaken, there has been no indication that Cersei would know where Sansa is at this point. Roose made it clear that the Boltons historically take one alliance and use that to their advantage in a bigger one. What advantage would they gain by telling Cersei they have Sansa (before they marry her to Ramsey). They need the north and in their mind the only way of securing it is Sansa.

LF would have no motivation to tell Cersei what he is up to at this point as giving her up would not likely end up in him gaining more power. He has more to gain from the Boltons (if they win) as he delivered them the North.

Those loyal to the Starks still in WF, would keep their mouths shut, so really the only way Cersei would know is if she had spies, and her current master of whisperers doesn't really seem up to par.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Had D&D not given agency to Dany in that decision, not made it her own plan, people would be much more fed up with Dany than they currently are. This way she has made a decision.

Good, then make a logical decision. Something that fits with the story.

Accept Daarios plan and sweep the city of the rats. THAT is logical. Its a win win is it not?

Opening the fighting pits (which she nrver ever wanted even if it were free men. Why did she suddenly change her mind) and forcing a guy to marry her. Enjoying seeing innocents burn. Is that needed?

You seriously defending that for "boredom" ?

Edited by robasp2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Geez, reading through some of the posts on here make me think most people watch the episodes once, make an opinion about it, then rage forward.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Show!Hizdahr is capturing Hizdahr's hyper-honesty while also making him a lot more likeable and sympathetic. Serving and then having to marry the Queen who crucified his father, made him watch as she fed another random noble to her dragons, and made him believe that he would be next before letting him stew in that terror for a day...Hizdahr's ended up in a really interesting position.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Was the dragon Tyrion saw Drogon?

Almost certainly (>99.9%).

If there's a 4th (and presumably more than that) dragon flying around, that's either an absolutely massive spoiler or an absolutely massive deviation from the books.

For the former, they seem to be avoiding spoilers until they can't anymore and that wasn't a necessary shot if it was a spoiler; and for the later, no deviation they've had thus far would come anywhere close that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good, then make a logical decision. Something that fits with the story.

Accept Daarios plan and sweep the city of the rats. THAT is logical. Its a win win is it not?

Opening the fighting pits (which she nrver ever wanted even if it were free men. Why did she suddenly change her mind) and forcing a guy to marry her. Enjoying seeing innocents burn. Is that needed?

You seriously defending that for "boredom" ?

Dany is showing that a Targaryen alone is a truly terrible thing now that she no longer has ser Grandpa to temper her thirst for Blood and Fire, and instead has the rage over his death to feed it. Crazy isn't logical, or are we supposed to start attacking Ramsay's castration of Theon as illogical?

Her feeding the noble to her dragons was much less vile than her making the Wine Seller watch the Shavepate torture his daughters, and she's actually there to watch over the punishment she has handed down, unlike in the books where she just lets the Shavepate go nuts on those poor girls.

Whereas after she had some time to calm down and think, she realized that opening up the fighting pits and marrying Hizdahr on her terms is a lot more logical than beginning an organized extermination of the Meereenese nobility like Daario proposed, if she wants to actually bring peace to her city and start building something that isn't tearing itself apart.

Edited by cgf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Geez, reading through some of the posts on here make me think most people watch the episodes once, make an opinion about it, then rage forward.

I kindof disagree. I think most of the "unsullied" who watch the episode just one and are done with it, do not even know about westeros.org . Some knowledgable people who read the books and are genuinely "into" this shit can rant too :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dany is showing that a Targaryen alone is a truly terrible thing now that she no longer has ser Grandpa to temper her thirst for Blood and Fire, and instead has the rage over his death to feed it. Crazy isn't logical, or are we supposed to start attacking Ramsay's castration of Theon as illogical?

I agree.

But people will NEVER compare Dany to Ramsey. So u agree show Dany is mad? Then Im fine dude.

"Ooh Khaleesi. Ooh she is strong"

"Wtf Ramsey is a lunatic. Ramsey is bad"

Both are becoming alike in their actions. That is why I began using "Mad Queen" for show Dany :)

Did ramsey become mad in an instant? No !

He was a lunatic from the start.

This is like someone with good values, say Eddard. Decides to burn a peasant boy for fun

Edited by robasp2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree.

But people will NEVER compare Dany to Ramsey. So u agree show Dany is mad? Then Im fine dude.

"Ooh Khaleesi. Ooh she is strong"

"Wtf Ramsey is a lunatic. Ramsey is bad"

I think that's where her character is going in both the books and show. The Fire and Blood has always been a big part of her struggle since she watched her brother get "crowned" after having grown up hearing him talk about burning the usurper's dogs for what they'd done; and I think that before the end of this series she will give up on trying to respond to an unjust world with justice and will instead burn down however much of this world she has to so that she can start a new world that will be more...manageable/malleable...at least that'll be how she sees it.

In the show in particular they are setting up a parallel between Ramsay and his marriage to Sansa with Dany and her marriage to Hizdahr.

Edited by cgf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think that's where he character is going in both the books and show. The Fire and Blood has always been a big part of her struggle to find out who she is and I think that before the end of this series she will give up trying to respond to an unjust world with justice and will instead burn down however much of this world she has to so that she can start a new world that won't be as unjust...at least that'll be how she sees it.

I REPEAT.. She could have served justice by wiping the SoH out, like Daario said.

That is what a fed up Dany would do!

Not by burning innocents and become mad in an instant. D&D style

Please tell me you atleast get me now!

Edited by robasp2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  

×