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[Spoilers] EP505 Discussion

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I REPEAT.. She could have served justice by wiping the SoH out, like Daario said.

That is what a fed up Dany would do!

Not by burning innocents and become mad in an instant.

Please tell me you atleast get me now!

I don't think that's what Daario was saying at all, nor do I think she actually could've just wiped them out. Even if she had somehow magically found every single Son of the Harpy and only Sons of the Harpy so she could execute them; she still would've birthed a whole new generation of Sons of the Harpy to pick up their masks. And realistically there's no way she could've rounded up everysingle one without harming a lot of innocents. It's the fundamental problem with fighting terrorism that has some local support with terror, you can't win that battle that way unless you're willing to wipe out the whole population.

Which is why I think Daario was actually talking about the entire Meereenese nobility when he talked about eliminating all of the rats while staring at Hizdahr.

It was an abrupt shift, but we've seen that targ temper in the books to, where someone goes from calm to fire coming out of their eyes in an instant, and the loss of her last voice of caution makes sense as the trigger for that kind of mindless lashing out...like Aegon flipping the cyvasse board.

Edited by cgf

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I don't think that's what Daario was saying at all, nor do I think she actually could've just wiped them out. Even if she had somehow magically found every single Son of the Harpy and only Sons of the Harpy so she could execute them; she still would've birthed a whole new generation of Sons of the Harpy to pick up their masks. And realistically there's no way she could've rounded up everysingle one without harming a lot of innocents. It's the fundamental problem with fighting terrorism that has some local support with terror, you can't win that battle that way unless you're willing to wipe out the whole population.

Which is why I think Daario was actually talking about the entire Meereenese nobility when he talked about eliminating all of the rats while staring at Hizdahr.

Not derailing. But do you actually say that we should burn a country to the ground for a few?

How does the world deal with terrorism today? Dany's way? No!

We deal with it the right way.

I bet if people did Dany's way today, they will be called "Mad" not "Strong.

Poor GRRM spent so much time developing Dany..how she finally gets control over Drogon, then shows her power maybe...

Instead we get this :[

Edited by robasp2

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Almost certainly (>99.9%).

If there's a 4th (and presumably more than that) dragon flying around, that's either an absolutely massive spoiler or an absolutely massive deviation from the books.

For the former, they seem to be avoiding spoilers until they can't anymore and that wasn't a necessary shot if it was a spoiler; and for the later, no deviation they've had thus far would come anywhere close that.

Maybe the point of interest is that Drogon is in/around Valyria. Maybe Drogon's lair is in a different place in the show vs the books?

Or it could simply be a coincidence as they needed a scene with him flying over Tyrion.

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Or it could simply be a coincidence as they needed a scene with him flying over Tyrion.

The only reason..

Just like they had to have a bridge for the stone men to jump from

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Not derailing. But do you actually say that we should burn a country to the ground for a few?

How does the world deal with terrorism today? Dany's way? No!

We deal with it the right way.

I bet if people did Dany's way today, they will be called "Mad" not "Strong.

Poor GRRM spent so much time developing Dany..how she finally gets control over Drigon, the shows her power maybe...

Instead we get this :[

Clearly we don't since we're still dealing with it as large chunks of our planet are plagued by it every day even now; plus our largest anti-terrorist actions in recent history have spawned more terrorists and pro-terrorist sympathies than when they were started. But that's a different point because you are mistaking me. I'm not defending Dany's way in the slightest. It is absolutely disgusting brutality and my believing that it fits the story in no way contradicts that.

I'm not saying it makes sense to me to react that way or that I would do so to. But for Dany, it made sense for her arc for an enraged Dany to decide to do what she did after losing her voice of restraint...just like it made sense in the books when finding out that the 9th victim of the harpies on that night was the magnificent harpist sparked Dany's targ fury into telling the Shavepate to make the Wine Seller watch his Daughters get tortured...but that is completely different than if I was arguing that it would make sense to nuke half the world just because we see terrorism in parts of latin america, the US, europe, asia and africa.

And is the exact opposite of the point I was trying to make. Cutting off the head of the snake doesn't work when doing so creates two new snakes to worry about, because that process can only end with the snakes ultimately winning or your having to exterminate every single snake in existence.

But I tend to generally dislike pointless action just to satisfy people's impulse that something must be done.

Edited by cgf

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Ok, I can accept the new "show rules" that invalidate the marriage between Tyrion and Sansa, I guess. I apparently missed the convo about that.

But what I can't accept is that Cersei is sending people (or asking people) for Tyrion's head, and she has no idea where he is. If she knows where Sansa is, and believes she helped Tyrion kill her son, the king, why isn't she pursuing that as well? If I missed another convo with Cersei explaining herself then I apologize. This season isn't sucking me in as much as the previous ones.

I can definitely tell that they aren't using GRRM writing for a lot of the show now, some of the dialogue this season makes me cringe. At least in previous seasons they were using a lot of lines from the books, or having GRRM writing the episode itself. Still a good show, for now....

I'm gonna have to reread these books. I've only read them once (recently finished) and I'm already mixing up the plot lines between the books and the show. I wish they would stick to the story GRRM laid out for them, although I do appreciate some things D&D added--my favorite addition being Cat's confrontation of Littlefinger after Ned's execution. I was hoping for that the entire time reading those books up until she died.

Cersei doesn't know about Sansa/Ramsay, so far. Whether she ever will, I don't know. If she were to find out, I'm sure she'd take appropriate action, but my point was that the show is employing the logic, as explained by Littlefinger to Roose, that the Lannisters are significantly less powerful without Tywin (like as if he really excreted gold), and that Roose's deal with the Lannisters is somehow up in the air, which in show-world, limits Cersei's options if she does find out (And Roose goes on to explain how the South won't send an army that far North, not even for Stannis). I think show Littlefinger is banking on Cersei being too preoccupied with other things, but yes, it doesn't make too much sense, but it is what it is. I just roll with it now, and still enjoy the show.

In the books:

He was waiting for her marriage to Harry to reveal her Stark ancestry, so it would have come out eventually, though preferably when Cersei had made a even bigger mess of her situation to be concerned.

Edited by GoldHandTheGood

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This is possibly the most absurd thing ever posted on this forum. Now I've seen everything, really!

I agree. I've tried my best to understand why it was necessary to make so many changes in order to adapt the series to TV but I keep coming back that the main reason is because D & D wanted to end the series after 7 seasons. HBO from my understanding would have given them 10 seasons ...maybe more. It is really heartbreaking as a book fan seeing Martin's books butchered like this. I will admit Books 4 & 5 had many characters with some names hard to keep straight ( think in Meereen) but I really enjoyed Tyrion's travels along the Royne with Young Griff/Griff, the dwarf girl Penny and them becoming slaves for a while. I liked Davos going to seek the help of Wyman Manderley, being imprisoned, and the Frey Pie. I miss Jaime's travels in the Riverlands and how he was tormented over Cersei's unfaithfulness to him. I miss Brienne and Pod's adventure to Crackclaw Point. I miss Adrianne, Quentyn, Victarion, and Euron. Sorry......I'll stop now.

This probably belongs in Rant and Rave. Bottom Line.......The screen adaptation may be good but I still don't think it could ever compare to the grandeur of the world GRRM created and blessed us with. Thank God I prefer books over watching TV!!!

Edited by TheFirstofHerName

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I agree. I've tried my best to understand why it was necessary to make so many changes in order to adapt the series to TV but I keep coming back that the main reason is because D & D wanted to end the series after 7 seasons. HBO from my understanding would have given them 10 seasons ...maybe more. It is really heartbreaking as a book fan seeing Martin's books butchered like this. I will admit Books 4 & 5 had many characters with some names hard to keep straight ( think in Meereen) but I really enjoyed Tyrion's travels along the Royne with Young Griff/Griff, the dwarf girl Penny and them becoming slaves for a while. I liked Davos going to seek the help of Wyman Manderley, being imprisoned, and the Frey Pie. I miss Jaime's travels in the Riverlands and how he was tormented over Cersei's unfaithfulness to him. I miss Brienne and Pod's adventure to Crackclaw Point. I miss Adrianne, Quentyn, Victarion, and Euron. Sorry......I'll stop now.

This probably belongs in Rant and Rave. Bottom Line.......The screen adaptation may be good but I still don't think it could ever compare to the grandeur of the world GRRM created and blessed us with. Thank God I prefer books over watching TV!!!

:agree: :frown5:

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I look at it like this, they know the end game. I don't. They know what the important storylines are and what are the fillers. Due to the amount of characters and plotlines in the books and the requirements for TV, I accept that certain changes have to be made.



At the end of the day there is going to be one plotline. There is 25-30 hours of TV to get us to that one plotline. The last episode should end roughly the same as the books will.



I'm starting to question what the important storylines of the books actually are. I'm waiting until after the season has finished and if I have the time I'm going to re-read the books. Don't want to do it mid season.



I won't say a plot makes no sense. The reason is that it might not make any sense right now, a few episodes down the line it might make total sense.



Regarding this episode in particular. It's a building episode. Preparing the ground for future things. It was very dark.



I loved the Bolton dinner scene. Also the fatherly chat between Roose and Ramsey. The discussion into getting Walda pregnant made me chuckle. I also liked Stannis "fewer" quip.


My biggest disappointment was Mereen. I started enjoying Dany's parts this season more, but other than the dragons, I felt a little let down with this episode.

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This and ep 3 have been the strongest for me this season. Loved the pacing - fewer, longer segments really works.



The Sansa/Theon stuff was just superbly acted - Sophie Turner is showing a real depth to her talent this series. She has great things ahead of her (not least the remaining series of GoT!). Loved the Awkward Dinner and the dynamics between Roose and Ramsway. I still can't decide of Generic Old Northern Man and Generic Old Northern Woman are really Starkers or really Bolton Placepeople. Either way the candle in the tower is clearly going to happen and has the potential to be an amazing piece of work.



I don't know what the Awful Scene will be, one imagines Ramsay finding out that Myranda showed Theon to Sansa and punishing her, but maybe it's a Fat Walda thing?



I also love the tensions around Stannis - we're being led to love him, a little. Will he take Winterfell only for Brienne to kill him? How does Mel end up back at the Wall (we all know she does). They haven't given the same hints on Mel's ruby as GRRM does in the books so when - as will surely happen - her true nature as a centuries-old Whatever is revealed it might jar for show-only peeps.



Jon looks like he will personally be at Hardhome. Where's that going? I suspect the "killing" of Jon will be in ep 10 to leave a cliffhanger for s6 (is he alive or not - well, obviously, yes, but how and in what form and, well, you know). Lots of R+L=J hints, I presume because it's so clearly true (but it might just be D+D f**king with us).



I loved the fewer, more extended segments and hope they keep this up. I really missed Arya but not so much KL - I don't feel as invested there yet. Maybe LF's return next episode will change that.



The thing I miss is the stuff around the possible-Hound on the island, I wish they'd found a mechanism to keep that in the show. Give me that over JonCon/fAegon any time.



Jorah and Tyrion are fab together, and obvious Jorah was going to get greyscale (and that that will be the plague that hits Mereen). D+D may be better at Mereeneese knots than GRRM, even (off to wash my mouth out with soap and water now).



I'm not sure I buy Missandei=Harpy, but I don't understand the stuff with her and Grey Worm. Why include it? I mourn Barristan but his show character is different from his book character and I guess some of his stuff in the next book will go to Jorah in the show.


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D+D may be better at Mereeneese knots than GRRM, even.

It's much easier, I presume, when you aren't bound by pesky notions like 'continuity,' 'logic,' or 'fuckin making sense.'

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Regarding this episode in particular. It's a building episode. Preparing the ground for future things. It was very dark.

I would agree with this entirely - and the coming darkness in GoTs isn't just in you face stuff like murder, forced marriages to pshycos and stuff - it's about some of the things Dany is starting to exhibit. Nice, decent people don't really stand a chance at killing monsters - monsters kill monsters. It's about how the darkness in one human heart creates darkness in others, until the lights go out entirely. The hope is that, when the lights come back on, a decent few are left.

I can't wait to see who survives the Long Night :)

I'm starting to question what the important storylines of the books actually are.

Well, I think it is becoming increasingly clear the fAegon, Jon Con, the Pale Mare, the Ironborn, Sansa and Arianne have very little to do with the end game.

Dorne must have something to do with it, otherwise why include it? If the show is any indication, it seems like Jamie may end up in Dorne in TWoW.

Though, including the Sandsnakes still seems like a strange choice, other than wanting some new sassy looking chicks for ratings. They were uninspired in book and even less inspired in show - I just don't get the need for them at all.

Edited by ummester

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I agree. I've tried my best to understand why it was necessary to make so many changes in order to adapt the series to TV but I keep coming back that the main reason is because D & D wanted to end the series after 7 seasons. HBO from my understanding would have given them 10 seasons ...maybe more. It is really heartbreaking as a book fan seeing Martin's books butchered like this. I will admit Books 4 & 5 had many characters with some names hard to keep straight ( think in Meereen) but I really enjoyed Tyrion's travels along the Royne with Young Griff/Griff, the dwarf girl Penny and them becoming slaves for a while. I liked Davos going to seek the help of Wyman Manderley, being imprisoned, and the Frey Pie. I miss Jaime's travels in the Riverlands and how he was tormented over Cersei's unfaithfulness to him. I miss Brienne and Pod's adventure to Crackclaw Point. I miss Adrianne, Quentyn, Victarion, and Euron. Sorry......I'll stop now.

This probably belongs in Rant and Rave. Bottom Line.......The screen adaptation may be good but I still don't think it could ever compare to the grandeur of the world GRRM created and blessed us with. Thank God I prefer books over watching TV!!!

They are on season 5 and people are already complaining the story is going to slow. If they adapted the show straight from the books, this season would have been even slower. The books drag on and on and on. And people have complained about Arya missing from two episodes. If they added everything from the books, it would have been 4 episodes before we saw her.

Can't please any of these fans it seems like.

Personally, I think the show is a home run. Do you know what the only bad part of the show is? That I can't find a good place to go online to talk about it without people complaining.

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It's much easier, I presume, when you aren't bound by pesky notions like 'continuity,' 'logic,' or 'fuckin making sense.'

And yet the show has great continuity, logic, and makes a lot of sense.

Hmmm.... Perhaps some are just better at getting to the point.

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And yet the show has great continuity, logic, and makes a lot of sense.

Hmmm.... Perhaps some are just better at getting to the point.

Really? Where did Sam get that letter about Dany. Did the NW send Anderson Cooper into the field to report on what's going on in Meereen?

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Really? Where did Sam get that letter about Dany. Did the NW send Anderson Cooper into the field to report on what's going on in Meereen?

You don't think there is anybody in mereen who is capable of sending a letter like that? The leaders of the country are in peril. It makes sense for at least a few to try to get the word out....

You used bad example. Even if something doesn't make perfect sense.... It's a STORY. Does Christopher Nolan's Batman make perfect sense just because it is more realistic? How did Batman get on top of a building like that? Or how does he beat up 10 guys wearing a rubber suit.

At some point with stories like this, you have to sit back and enjoy it. I could take any season of any show on television and find holes to poke through the story.

It's just too much from some fans who can never be happy.

All this is.... Is backlash from fans who are made the show is finishing first.

Edited by The One And Only

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Don't be silly, and stop assuming things about me. I've loved... LOVED every season so far. This season has been idiotic. It frequently disregards, as I said, logic, continuity, and the need to make sense. I merely used 1 example illustratively. There are a numerous examples this season.

P.S. Christopher Nolan is a garbage director. He gives no shit about his movies making sense. How fucking hilarious that you should pick him as an example.

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