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[Spoilers] EP505 Discussion

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D&D have a broad brush stoke version of the end, not a blow by blow of the next two books. Whatever they did with Sansa it would be their work entirely as they've already used up her book material at as slow a pace as they could have - it's not like they rushed Sansa.

Same goes for Jaime and Brienne. They are out of book material. If lady Stoneheart will appear it will be closer to the end as her end game will coincide with other end games.

If you have to make up material any how why not combine their stories with other stories, especially where these other stories don't have familiar characters. Having Jaime and Bronn in Dorne allows there to be some familiar faces involved in the new storyline. Plus it means that when the sand snakes kill someone it's not just another Red Shirt but more likely Bronn. This death will have meaning and impact.

What, are you PR department for HBO? You're regurgitating all the justifications they told us long ago. Which in face of the poor continuity, plothole issues, and cartoonish show characters, doesn't sound convincing.

As for treating the audience like morons, this is a silly argument.

Why? Because you say so? Ever since i started watching, i though GoT prided itself in being an intelligent drama, suited to compete against the best TV (LOTR meets The Godfather, remember?). Now the show caters only to the lowest common denominator, some of whose examples are clearly in these boards.

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Umm, maybe because he is part of an insurgency that is killing the Queen's soldiers and if discovered he would be facing execution? Like you know, what actually happened on the show.

Really? And how do they know he is part of an insurgency? How can anyone know he is part of an insurgency? What gives him away? He dresses like everybody else LOL. Man this is priceless, this mental gymnastic people use to defend two poor writers. ONLY THING THAT GIVES THAT MAN AWAY IS THAT HE IS HIDING. SO IF HE WASN'T HIDING NOBODY WOULD KNOW HE IS IN INSURGENCY!!! Really, how hard it is to see truth that is so obvious?

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Really? And how do they know he is part of an insurgency? How can anyone know he is part of an insurgency? What gives him away? He dresses like everybody else LOL. Man this is priceless, this mental gymnastic people use to defend two poor writers. ONLY THING THAT GIVES THAT MAN AWAY IS THAT HE IS HIDING. SO IF HE WASN'T HIDING NOBODY WOULD KNOW HE IS IN INSURGENCY!!! Really, how hard it is to see truth that is so obvious?

Your schtick is getting quite boring and apparently you are one of those stupid viewers that need everything spelled out for you to follow the plot.

Ok may be that is a bit harsh but seriously right before they enter the building Daario explains how his second sons are drinking with the locals in tavern and are therefore more privy to getting intel than the unsullied who kind of stick out in the crowd. That is how they knew that guy was an insurgent. It is not that complicated.

Edited by El Guapo

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Your schtick is getting quite boring and apparently you are one of those stupid viewers that need everything spelled out for you to follow the plot.

LOL

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Really? And how do they know he is part of an insurgency? How can anyone know he is part of an insurgency? What gives him away? He dresses like everybody else LOL. Man this is priceless, this mental gymnastic people use to defend two poor writers. ONLY THING THAT GIVES THAT MAN AWAY IS THAT HE IS HIDING. SO IF HE WASN'T HIDING NOBODY WOULD KNOW HE IS IN INSURGENCY!!! Really, how hard it is to see truth that is so obvious?

Dany also had no proof that the masters had anything to do with the Sons of the Harpy but she fed one to her dragons anyway. That's the world they live in. If you're even suspected of treason, you're in danger of being executed.

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Your schtick is getting quite boring and apparently you are one of those stupid viewers that need everything spelled out for you to follow the plot.

Ok may be that is a bit harsh but seriously right before they enter the building Daario explains how his second sons are drinking with the locals in tavern and are therefore more privy to getting intel than the unsullied who kind of stick out in the crowd. That is how they knew that guy was an insurgent. It is not that complicated.

You obviously don't process what you watch but at least you should start processing what you write. You see what you just wrote is pretty stupid and explains nothing about my question and that was: WHY IS THAT GUY EVEN HIDING? I mean of course that he sticks out when he is hiding in wall. But if he wasn't hiding he wouldn't sick out. LOL. You know in the scene after that one they are discussing what to do with that man and it is obvious that he didn't do anything. Barristan says it directly: We don't know what this man did or didn't do. So let go again: he didn't do anything and they also don't know that he ever did anything against Dany and his only crime is that he was hiding with masks and daggers... so: WHY WAS HE HIDING??? HELLO?

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You obviously don't process what you watch but at least you should start processing what you write. You see what you just wrote is pretty stupid and explains nothing about my question and that was: WHY IS THAT GUY EVEN HIDING? I mean of course that he sticks out when he is hiding in wall. But if he wasn't hiding he wouldn't sick out. LOL. You know in the scene after that one they are discussing what to do with that man and it is obvious that he didn't do anything. Barristan says it directly: We don't know what this man did or didn't do. So let go again: he didn't do anything and they also don't know that he ever did anything against Dany and his only crime is that he was hiding with masks and daggers... so: WHY WAS HE HIDING??? HELLO?

Like I said, you are one of these dumb viewers that need everything spelled out for him so faced with this reality there is no point with even discussing this with this you further.

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Like I said, you are one of these dumb viewers that need everything spelled out for him so faced with this reality there is no point with even discussing this with this you further.

I'm usually against calling people out like that, but damn well said. Sometimes people just don't comprehend storytelling very well unless everything characters say is exposition.

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Like I said, you are one of these dumb viewers that need everything spelled out for him so faced with this reality there is no point with even discussing this with this you further.

So you have nothing to say except to be rude and ignorant? Congratulations! You're poster boy for D&D apologists.

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I'm usually against calling people out like that, but damn well said. Sometimes people just don't comprehend storytelling very well unless everything characters say is exposition.

It is very much the opposite case because it is you who isn't able to comprehend anything if you don't recognize logical fallacy in that scene. But luckily for you all you have to do and comprehend everything is just watch the following scene and everything will become clear.

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? I am not applying book logic. I am applying show logic. It was stated in the show that Varys wanted for the Dothraki to invade AND that he wants what's best for the kingdom. A contradiction. Simple.

Ends justifying the means argument. Varys (and his co-conspirators) believe having a Targaryen restoration is the best thing for the realm. So some short term pain of a Dothraki invasion for long term Targaryen reign is a price worth paying (in his view, not everyone, myself included, would agree with his logic but I can understand it).

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I'm wondering if Varys is still on his way to see Dany. I'm also wondering how Brienne plans to get into Winterfell in time to save Sansa once the candle is lit. I hope she has a real plan and not what she tried at the inn. As for Sansa, I really don't want to hear her getting brutalized on her wedding night. I think that the whole reason they showed the rough sex between Ramsay and Myranda was to foreshadow how he'll treat Sansa. Sansa will not be prepared for this especially if he puts on his pretend nice guy act the whole day of the wedding. There is a reason Theon is in tears watching them. I'm sure Ramsay is just using her for his pleasure and causing her pain. I still don't get how anyone thought this plot made sense or was a good idea. It is completely unnecessary and exploitive. It's a shame that the creators are almost proud of how little they read the source material or how little time they take to at least assess how they are representing traumatic situations.


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I would agree with this entirely - and the coming darkness in GoTs isn't just in you face stuff like murder, forced marriages to pshycos and stuff - it's about some of the things Dany is starting to exhibit. Nice, decent people don't really stand a chance at killing monsters - monsters kill monsters. It's about how the darkness in one human heart creates darkness in others, until the lights go out entirely. The hope is that, when the lights come back on, a decent few are left.

I can't wait to see who survives the Long Night :)

Well, I think it is becoming increasingly clear the fAegon, Jon Con, the Pale Mare, the Ironborn, Sansa and Arianne have very little to do with the end game.

Dorne must have something to do with it, otherwise why include it? If the show is any indication, it seems like Jamie may end up in Dorne in TWoW.

Though, including the Sandsnakes still seems like a strange choice, other than wanting some new sassy looking chicks for ratings. They were uninspired in book and even less inspired in show - I just don't get the need for them at all.

I'm thinking that one of them will be the cause of Myrcella's maiming, meaning that The Darkstar won't be making an appearance...

Dany also had no proof that the masters had anything to do with the Sons of the Harpy but she fed one to her dragons anyway. That's the world they live in. If you're even suspected of treason, you're in danger of being executed.

I've been thinking about this since Sunday and it occurred to me that Dany might justify her "unfair" sacrifice of a random family leader by deciding that all of them are former slave masters, something she views with little other than contempt.

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I think as book-readers, we have the advantage and disadvantage of recognizing set-ups and plot points in the show that the unsullied might not see as such. That gives us room to both enjoy the progression of the show, and to take issue with the direction it's going when those set-ups are unrecognizable from Martin's material. I personally may not be happy with the direction of the show at this point, but a lot of times I consider that my personal bias when measured against the books.


So, a lot of time I draw my opinion of how well the show is working from my husband, who exclusively sees this world through the show. When he's angry at the show for it not making sense, it helps me accept that I'm not just being elitist. These last few episodes especially, he has been increasingly irritated by the illogical actions of the characters and confusing focus on things that seem not to matter.



Here are a few of those concerns, from someone who does not have the bias of the books to go on:


1) Nothing is happening. These episodes are really boring. (With the exception of Jorah getting Grayscale, and Dany burning a guy.) I can see where these plotlines are going, but he can't, and to him it's just boring television. Which means that the seeds the show is planting aren't going to stick when the time comes for these plots to pay off. They aren't getting people invested in these plots.


2) Why did Sansa just walk into the kennels? I thought she was supposed to be getting smarter. She just seems like she's getting bitchier.


3) He laughed after Aemon said that a Targaryen alone in the world was a terrible thing, and the camera focused sharply on Jon. He doesn't even know R+L=J, but he's certainly getting the idea that Jon is involved with the Targaryens somehow.


4) He wants to know what's going on with Arya's wolf.


5) He's extremely disappointed in the Unsullied. They're supposed to be the pinnacle of fighting prowess, and yet they can barely defend themselves from untrained nobles?


6) I waited all this time to see Barristen do something, and when we finally get to see him fight, he immediately dies. Super lame.



Now, I agree with most of what he's saying, and have my own concerns, but if you think it's just book-people who are disappointed at the writing, continuity, and pacing of this season, that's just not true.


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I just realized how confusing Tyrion's motivations are. Why is he agreeing to work against Tommen? By making Tyrion such a 'good' character and by removing the Tysha subplot, I just don't believe that he is prepared to harm Jaime's son. I know he hates Cersei, but he hates her so much that he's prepared to potentially aid in the death of Tommen? Don't buy it.


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3) He laughed after Aemon said that a Targaryen alone in the world was a terrible thing, and the camera focused sharply on Jon. He doesn't even know R+L=J, but he's certainly getting the idea that Jon is involved with the Targaryens somehow.

I'm not convinced on the R+L=J story. I would argue that Sam, was the focus of the the shot when Aemon mentions the last Targaryen (and Jon walked in after), and Stannis mentions that Sam's dad was a only one who defeated Robert means something. So, at the end, your king to the 7 kingdoms just might be Samwell Tarly! Wha? Huh?! Come again?! :laugh: :lmao:

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I had no problems whatsoever with the contents of the letter that Sam recieved at the Wall. News from Essos should be a little distorted but even saying that at the end of last season Yunkai was mobilizing to march on Dany so saying that was under siege is not that far off from the truth. It just so happens that march on Meereen never materialized as Daario and Hizdar were able to broker some kind of peace. That being said who is sending that news to the wall and why are they doing it? That is the only issue I have.

I've thought about this too and it is probably one of Varys "little birds" since he has a spy network world wide. Maester Aaemon probably got it from the Citadel once they got word of it. After all, they already know about Daenerys in King's Landing even though they don't seem too concerned about it yet.

Edited by TheFirstofHerName

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5) He's extremely disappointed in the Unsullied. They're supposed to be the pinnacle of fighting prowess, and yet they can barely defend themselves from untrained nobles?

I can tell you that after 20yrs of MA training, surprise/ambush and numbers can make up for a hell of a lot.

WHY WAS HE HIDING??? HELLO?

Maybe because he was ratted out and someone else told him he was? You know, like how stuff like that really goes down? Just a suggestion.

Edited by NSR or FD

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