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Risto

[BOOK SPOILERS] Discussing Sansa XVI - Back at home...

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Oh yeah despite my misgivings with the writing/directing, Sophie did do a good job. Her reaction to seeing Theon was really good, you felt the anger but under all it the tiniest bit of feeling/shock at seeing someone from her old life again. Her "what are you doing" to Ramsay and her demeanor through the dinner were awesome, though I still think book and show Sansa would have been much more cautious.


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I haven't read any posts yet, but I did want to put in my two cents before I go to bed. This episode had a hell of a lot of Winterfell in it, and as shocked as I am saying this, I'm really interested/curious to see where the Sansa/Ramsay storyline goes.

1. Myranda is a clingy, psycho bitch. Not sure why Ramsay deserves her jealousy (though I will say Iwan himself is lovely), though I guess crazy attracts crazy. I am sure we will see her continue to try and freak out Sansa for a little while longer. I think her little stint showing her Theon in the kennels was just the beginning.

2. I saw more sadness/shock in Sansa's expression than hate or anger while she was staring at Theon. Surely she knew he was the one who supposedly killed Bran and Rickon before the dinner scene?

3. I was completely shocked that Ramsay didn't twist or break Theon's wrist or hand or something while he was holding it. So glad we didn't have to hear a sick snap.

4. The dinner scene was just kind of an emotional hot mess. Sansa seemed pretty indifferent/stony towards both Ramsay and Roose until Ramsay had Theon come in and apologize for "killing" her brothers. I'm sure there were a million thoughts running through her head during that bit. Great acting by Sophie.

5. Ah, so the rumors were true and Fat Walda is indeed pregnant. I have ideas, though I'm not completely sold on any of them yet. I think however, it is safe to say she is probably in danger of being killed...or at the very least, severely injured.

6. I found the Roose/Ramsay scene pretty intriguing. At first, Ramsay's jealousy is obvious and he definitely voices it through comments (him asking Roose how he got Walda pregnant and how he "found" it). But then, as Roose tells Ramsay the story of his mother and how he is his son, I noticed so,e reassurance in his expression. Maybe he trusts his father in that he won't be replaced? If that's the case, then I could see Sansa manipulate him into hurting or killing Fat Walda. Not sure why Sansa would ever instigate something like that, but I do think it's possible she will be able to work Ramsay a bit in her favor.

Side note-Not a reader of the books, (though hopefully that'll change soon), but was Ramsay's mother mentioned in them? I didn't think it was possible to hate Roose more, but after listening to the story of how he killed the woman's husband, then raped her underneath his body is just completely and utterly awful to me. Not sure why I was surprised, but I was.

I liked the episode all in all, though. Really good. Loved the stuff with Jon, and Dany. I always like seeing the dragons.

(Oh, and just out of curiosity, does the wedding happen in episode 6, or is that speculation?)

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I haven't read any posts yet, but I did want to put in my two cents before I go to bed. This episode had a hell of a lot of Winterfell in it, and as shocked as I am saying this, I'm really interested/curious to see where the Sansa/Ramsay storyline goes.

1. Myranda is a clingy, psycho bitch. Not sure why Ramsay deserves her jealousy (though I will say Iwan himself is lovely), though I guess crazy attracts crazy. I am sure we will see her continue to try and freak out Sansa for a little while longer. I think her little stint showing her Theon in the kennels was just the beginning.

2. I saw more sadness/shock in Sansa's expression than hate or anger while she was staring at Theon. Surely she knew he was the one who supposedly killed Bran and Rickon before the dinner scene?

3. I was completely shocked that Ramsay didn't twist or break Theon's wrist or hand or something while he was holding it. So glad we didn't have to hear a sick snap.

4. The dinner scene was just kind of an emotional hot mess. Sansa seemed pretty indifferent/stony towards both Ramsay and Roose until Ramsay had Theon come in and apologize for "killing" her brothers. I'm sure there were a million thoughts running through her head during that bit. Great acting by Sophie.

5. Ah, so the rumors were true and Fat Walda is indeed pregnant. I have ideas, though I'm not completely sold on any of them yet. I think however, it is safe to say she is probably in danger of being killed...or at the very least, severely injured.

6. I found the Roose/Ramsay scene pretty intriguing. At first, Ramsay's jealousy is obvious and he definitely voices it through comments (him asking Roose how he got Walda pregnant and how he "found" it). But then, as Roose tells Ramsay the story of his mother and how he is his son, I noticed so,e reassurance in his expression. Maybe he trusts his father in that he won't be replaced? If that's the case, then I could see Sansa manipulate him into hurting or killing Fat Walda. Not sure why Sansa would ever instigate something like that, but I do think it's possible she will be able to work Ramsay a bit in her favor.

Side note-Not a reader of the books, (though hopefully that'll change soon), but was Ramsay's mother mentioned in them? I didn't think it was possible to hate Roose more, but after listening to the story of how he killed the woman's husband, then raped her underneath his body is just completely and utterly awful to me. Not sure why I was surprised, but I was.

I liked the episode all in all, though. Really good. Loved the stuff with Jon, and Dany. I always like seeing the dragons.

Yes she was : Roose to Ramsey.... don't make me rue the day I raped your mother.

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I haven't read any posts yet, but I did want to put in my two cents before I go to bed. This episode had a hell of a lot of Winterfell in it, and as shocked as I am saying this, I'm really interested/curious to see where the Sansa/Ramsay storyline goes.

1. Myranda is a clingy, psycho bitch. Not sure why Ramsay deserves her jealousy (though I will say Iwan himself is lovely), though I guess crazy attracts crazy. I am sure we will see her continue to try and freak out Sansa for a little while longer. I think her little stint showing her Theon in the kennels was just the beginning.

2. I saw more sadness/shock in Sansa's expression than hate or anger while she was staring at Theon. Surely she knew he was the one who supposedly killed Bran and Rickon before the dinner scene?

3. I was completely shocked that Ramsay didn't twist or break Theon's wrist or hand or something while he was holding it. So glad we didn't have to hear a sick snap.

4. The dinner scene was just kind of an emotional hot mess. Sansa seemed pretty indifferent/stony towards both Ramsay and Roose until Ramsay had Theon come in and apologize for "killing" her brothers. I'm sure there were a million thoughts running through her head during that bit. Great acting by Sophie.

5. Ah, so the rumors were true and Fat Walda is indeed pregnant. I have ideas, though I'm not completely sold on any of them yet. I think however, it is safe to say she is probably in danger of being killed...or at the very least, severely injured.

6. I found the Roose/Ramsay scene pretty intriguing. At first, Ramsay's jealousy is obvious and he definitely voices it through comments (him asking Roose how he got Walda pregnant and how he "found" it). But then, as Roose tells Ramsay the story of his mother and how he is his son, I noticed so,e reassurance in his expression. Maybe he trusts his father in that he won't be replaced? If that's the case, then I could see Sansa manipulate him into hurting or killing Fat Walda. Not sure why Sansa would ever instigate something like that, but I do think it's possible she will be able to work Ramsay a bit in her favor.

Side note-Not a reader of the books, (though hopefully that'll change soon), but was Ramsay's mother mentioned in them? I didn't think it was possible to hate Roose more, but after listening to the story of how he killed the woman's husband, then raped her underneath his body is just completely and utterly awful to me. Not sure why I was surprised, but I was.

I liked the episode all in all, though. Really good. Loved the stuff with Jon, and Dany. I always like seeing the dragons.

(Oh, and just out of curiosity, does the wedding happen in episode 6, or is that speculation?)

i am curious about where the sansa/ramsay storyline is going as well. To answer some of your questions. I am not sure if she knew that theon killed her brother, and I am pretty sure that they talk about ramsay's mom in the books. how she was rape by roose. pretty sad.

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Topic: so much for Sansa's courtesy armour.

The show's handling of that concept has been decidedly erratic, both in relation to Sansa and other players. For whatever reason, the show's idea of what a "player" looks like almost never seems to involve trying to hide your intentions -- heck, Sansa became a "player" by outright declaring to Littlefinger that she was a player now and was going to be using his weakness for her against him (for which there was absolutely no followup, but that's neither here nor there). Margaery is considered a great player, despite the fact that she's smarmy and blatantly phony. And then there's the show's version of Littlefinger, and what more need be said about him?

2. I saw more sadness/shock in Sansa's expression than hate or anger while she was staring at Theon. Surely she knew he was the one who supposedly killed Bran and Rickon before the dinner scene?

She did, as far as we know, but the show never gave any indication she knew anything about their deaths prior to this episode (one of the more annoying parts of how that was handled). Sloppy, in my opinion, given that they subsequently are clearly building a mini-plot around her learning this (and apparently have had this in mind since season 2.

Her initial reaction seemed more sad/shocked, but you could see the anger building, particularly at the very end where she's gripping the point on that necklace really hard.

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What's the general consensus (if there is one) on when the escape will happen? 9 or 10? Both episodes seem so packed as it is.

Hard to say, really. I lean toward episode 9, with episode 10 being perhaps some version of them meeting Stannis, or wherever they end up going.

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What's the general consensus (if there is one) on when the escape will happen? 9 or 10? Both episodes seem so packed as it is.

7/8. I think Sansa's last episode is likely Episode 8.

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7/8. I think Sansa's last episode is likely Episode 8.

I actually think she can be in all ten this year.

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7/8. I think Sansa's last episode is likely Episode 8.

Considering she's at Winterfell, in one of the three central plots of the year, I'd lay the odds of that at 0%.

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I actually think she can be in all ten this year.

That would be great if she was. I worry they will fall short of getting her anywhere after she (hopefully) escapes Winterfell. My thought is she'll go to the wall as Alys Karstark did in the books, seeking out Jon. But For The Watch has been heavily foreshadowed so I wonder what she'd be doing if she came in at that time.

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Hard to say, really. I lean toward episode 9, with episode 10 being perhaps some version of them meeting Stannis, or wherever they end up going.

I was thinking along these lines, with the Pink Letter (i'm holding out hope) being the ambiguous ending Sophie referred to. No idea how Brienne or the smallfolk being set up would play into this.

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It was really hard to tell, but in the preview it kind of looked like the wedding might have been taking place in the Godswood?



That might determine when her escape happens. If it happens.



I'm still hoping she doesn't get the Jeyne Poole treatment. Every time she is on screen I have this paradoxical feeling of both dread and excitement.



It doesn't help that all the Winterfell scenes have been solid so far. It really is turning out to be one of the better storylines this season.


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It was really hard to tell, but in the preview it kind of looked like the wedding might have been taking place in the Godswood?

That might determine when her escape happens. If it happens.

I'm still hoping she doesn't get the Jeyne Poole treatment. Every time she is on screen I have this paradoxical feeling of both dread and excitement.

It doesn't help that all the Winterfell scenes have been solid so far. It really is turning out to be one of the better storylines this season.

Yup, in front of a Heart Tree.

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I just want to say that I love all the acting in the Winterfell arc so far.



Also this episode made me love Myranda. That acting in that scene with Sophie, where she's all smarmy and hating... it's like Winterfell is this year's King's Landing.


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Yes she was : Roose to Ramsey.... don't make me rue the day I raped your mother.

is it just me or can you imagine show roose raping a woman. i mean show ramsay is more on the level of tywin, he is diabolical, an evil manipulator and has no feelings for his fellow man and is not a decent human being even disputed if he is even human at all, but rape hmmmmmmmm i don't know it seems like he would think it beneath him, he sounds like the type to order someone else to do his dirty work. i know he stabbed robb himself but does he seem like the type to rape someone for the fun of it, i can see book roose doing it the book counterpart is more nuts than the show, just like book ramsay is more psychopath.

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Myranda seems to be tortured by Ramsey..... she might actually be an Ally to Sansa later on.... With much Northern conspiracy in the shows.



I have a feeling Sansa small dagger will come into use soon, she's holding on to it more and more, almost ready to stab with it, it's such a defense mechanism


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The Winterfell dinner scene was one of my favorites this episode. I thought Sansa very cheeky/foolish when she did not drink to Ramsay's wedding toast and pointedly pushed her glass away, but as she continued to be not so passively defiant, I loved it. Best Sansa line was when she said being there wasn't strange, it was her home, that it was the people who were strange.



I, like someone earlier posted, also thought that when she saw Theon in the kennels, a substantial part of her reaction was anger/horror at what he had become, what they had done to him. I really hope she finds out that he didn't murder Bran and Rickon, but that may never happen.



About 'the wedding night' - I don't know. I can't imagine Sansa, as much as she seems to have lived in that victim role, suffering Ramsay to consummate the marriage. It may be naive and wishful thinking on my part, but I believe there will be some sort of intervention before that happens - Theon or Myranda or Stannis or Brienne (if Sansa can just get a candle in the window of the broken tower). Another probably really naive hope of mine is that since the wedding is evidently to take place before the Heart Tree, that will somehow trigger some sort of protective mechanism (maybe the three-eyed raven will come and peck Ramsay's eyes out, lol). If worse comes to worst, however, I still know how to shut my eyes and sing "la la la la la la la" loudly until it's all over.


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