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Where do we go from Here, part 2 (Spoilers Galore)


Fragile Bird

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I just have to ask a quick question - since this is episode 5 and we're offically halfway in the season, I just wonder if anyone has any thoughts on Bran this season? Personally, I think it would be a good move to keep him away the whole season, and maybe a creepy scene with Bloodraven right at the very end - ooor not at all, as it might confuse viewers when he's been gone the entire season… I just think his storyline takes time, it would be badass to suddenly see him having learnt a bit and having become "underground" up beyond the wall. If they want him in this season at all I guess I can't see anywhere he would fit… Has the actor even been on set for this season, anyone know?


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@ Chambraigne - I am glad you mention the pretty obvious foreshadowing that Dany is going down the route of the mad king I've been convinced this is where her arc is heading for a while now.

There was exactly ZERO remorse while she stood there and watched them eat the guy after everyone left. She had a good time watching him burn.

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Jorah's greyscale is positioning him to be a replacement for Quentyn. He knows he's going to die, so he goes on a suicide mission to free the dragons. No one left in Meereen can do it.

Also, Stannis will never sit the Iron Throne, and if he does it won’t be for long. The strong characters in Martin’s books are always flexible and adaptable, usually having experienced some sort of physical trauma that alters their identity and makes them evolve. Jaime loses his sword hand. Bran loses his legs. Eunuchs. Doran Martell’s arthritis. Dany’s barrenness. Tyrion’s stature and facial scarring. Littlefinger’s scar from Brandon Stark. Characters that refuse to adapt usually just die. Eddard, Robb, Tywin, Joffrey, Oberyn, etc. If a character is single-minded, they’re usually marked for death in Martin’s books. Stannis has been described on multiple occasions as inflexible, strong but brittle. He ain’t gonna make it, and I'm not sure Dany will either since she's starting to act a bit like the Mad King.

Nice first post! Welcome to Westeros, may there be many more like this. :)

And an excellent observation as well.

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Nice first post! Welcome to Westeros, may there be many more like this. :)

And an excellent observation as well.

Thanks! I've been wrestling with the idea of bodily trauma in ASOIAF for a while now. It's a chapter in my dissertation. One character that intrigues me is Cersei...Martin writes at length about the various bodily changes she undergoes in ADWD, from her "shrinking dresses" to her body sagging and the purification offered by shaving her from head to toe. She's stripped of her beauty, but I'm not convinced that she's redeemable as a character. I don't think she has evolved at all.

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You are probably right but I need a little hope and logic. There is no viable reason for Sansa to willingly bed Ramsay Bolton. She probably will, if he can do his part.

When she married Tyrion she was going to do her part. Did she resist him saying No I won't do it, because Sansa has been raised to believe that is the duty of a wife after marriage to consummate the marriage. Now Sansa didn't know that Tyrion would be a gentleman and he kindly gave her an out.

Do you think Sansa is going to attempt the same with Ramsay is she stupid enough to test Ramsay. There is only way this is going to go down, Sansa has to comply now she is only going to resist when Ramsay if he calls for Reek to bear witness. Now it is known in medieval times for witnesses to be present to have proof that the marriage is a done deal. Ofcourse Sansa will be disgusted and Reek will be in tears and one look into Ramsay eyes Sansa will know it is useless to fight him he is going to get what he wants and the bedding will be complete.

Now I think if we are going to go into the technicalities of defining rape, this is a form of passive rape, Sansa is not physically going to fight it but emotionally this will ruin her to have to go through this.

We have to remember that Sansa gave Tyrion a chance, despite his family she saw Tyrion as a decent man and was trying to get along with him because she could see he was abused himself as well and would not hurt her. If Ramsay wasn't nuts and actually a decent human being I think Sansa might have had hope because it was Roose bolton who destroyed her family not Ramsay. But after her wedding Sansa will be crushed to realize Ramsay is just an insane as his father.

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When she married Tyrion she was going to do her part. Did she resist him saying No I won't do it, because Sansa has been raised to believe that is the duty of a wife after marriage to consummate the marriage. Now Sansa didn't know that Tyrion would be a gentleman and he kindly gave her an out.

Do you think Sansa is going to attempt the same with Ramsay is she stupid enough to test Ramsay. There is only way this is going to go down, Sansa has to comply now she is only going to resist when Ramsay if he calls for Reek to bear witness. Now it is known in medieval times for witnesses to be present to have proof that the marriage is a done deal. Ofcourse Sansa will be disgusted and Reek will be in tears and one look into Ramsay eyes Sansa will know it is useless to fight him he is going to get what he wants and the bedding will be complete.

Now I think if we are going to go into the technicalities of defining rape, this is a form of passive rape, Sansa is not physically going to fight it but emotionally this will ruin her to have to go through this.

We have to remember that Sansa gave Tyrion a chance, despite his family she saw Tyrion as a decent man and was trying to get along with him because she could see he was abused himself as well and would not hurt her. If Ramsay wasn't nuts and actually a decent human being I think Sansa might have had hope because it was Roose bolton who destroyed her family not Ramsay. But after her wedding Sansa will be crushed to realize Ramsay is just an insane as his father.

Still though, she is sleeping with the enemy and that includes Ramsay. I have accepted that most likely, it will be completed but I am hoping for an interesting twist to spare her but I just for the life of me, cannot understand the plot logic for her to have to go through with this other than perverted show runners drooling over Sophie Turner for years, wanting to get her flesh into a controversial sex scene with someone as despicable as Ramsay Bolton. Now that is the only thing that makes sence. The flow of the story is being derailed for a first time celebrity T&A and It is sick.

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Still though, she is sleeping with the enemy and that includes Ramsay. I have accepted that most likely, it will be completed but I am hoping for an interesting twist to spare her but I just for the life of me, cannot understand the plot logic for her to have to go through with this other than perverted show runners drooling over Sophie Turner for years, wanting to get her flesh into a controversial sex scene with someone as despicable as Ramsay Bolton. Now that is the only thing that makes sence. The flow of the story is being derailed for a first time celebrity T&A and It is sick.

Which books are you reading? You're calling "celebrity T&A" a product of "perverted show runners", but a whole first book in which a 13 year old girl is repeatedly raped by a grown man didn't bother you?

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Where to from here? It's pretty obvious that Jorah isn't going to make it to the end of the saga :D

I think poor fat Walda will be lucky to make it a couple more episodes, as Ramsay may well perform an unhygienic, forced abortion.

Sansa is probably a Jeyne Poole replacement, to be saved by Reek and Brienne.

I'm starting to think this season may actually jump ahead of the books with the death of Stannis by Bolton hands, there is a bit of foreshadowing lining up for it now. And, if this is true, it means Sansa will end up back in Bolton care and Reek and Brienne will end up dead - there is just too much attention being paid to the Boltons for them not to be part of Season 7, I think.

I have a strong feeling that stannis might die at the end too. I don't reek will die. Brienne might die trying to save sansa :( I am guessing the Boltons will be in season 6.

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From a payoff standpoint, I can't just see how this could happen. What could/would the Boltons/Freys be doing in the North for the next 2+ seasons of TV that would remain pertinent and interesting? If Sansa and Theon escape this season (and I think it's likely they will), I'm not really sure what the Boltons have left to do, really. Ramsay's really only interesting when he's toying with or torturing people and Roose is toast without Sansa as a hostage.

Everyone loved to hate Joffrey for 3 seasons, I'm sure Ramsay could pull the same kind of reaction for 2.

re Sansa and Theon, I'm starting to think they will escape and be captured again. I'm getting worried about the lifespan of the Mannis this season. I'm thinking the Pink Letter is the truth in the books and we are going to see the content enacted in the show.

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Still though, she is sleeping with the enemy and that includes Ramsay. I have accepted that most likely, it will be completed but I am hoping for an interesting twist to spare her but I just for the life of me, cannot understand the plot logic for her to have to go through with this other than perverted show runners drooling over Sophie Turner for years, wanting to get her flesh into a controversial sex scene with someone as despicable as Ramsay Bolton. Now that is the only thing that makes sence. The flow of the story is being derailed for a first time celebrity T&A and It is sick.

Lets look at the opposite side of this argument. There must be a bedding scene after the wedding how are they going to show it. If we expect Sansa to fight as she should it will turn into rape because come on guys Ramsay is not going to take No for an answer he is not Tyrion. Writers don't want to film a rape scene, I like to think after all the controversy last year they don't need another one, so the only way to mellow this down is to get Sansa to consent, but they have to make Ramsay crazy as well so throw Theon in the mix. Either ways this is GOT horrifying seems to be the flavour.

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It could take stannis months to get there

Given the inconsistent geography in the show, you might be right.

Also, why didn't LF just take Sansa to the Wall if he's planning on Stannis winning. It seems needlessly risky to put his waifu in the middle of a siege.

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Feel free to tell me if this is a stupid idea or not. Since Jon will be at Hardhome most likely for episode 8 and 9 (episode 8 synopsis say Jon only travels to Hardhome) is it it likely Jon's Ceasaring will be replaced with something else? Perhaps the White Walkers, since they will be at HH, capture Jon and we end his season arc on a huge cliffhanger, and then to introduce Bran next season a warged Summer rescues Jon.

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Feel free to tell me if this is a stupid idea or not. Since Jon will be at Hardhome most likely for episode 8 and 9 (episode 8 synopsis say Jon only travels to Hardhome) is it it likely Jon's Ceasaring will be replaced with something else? Perhaps the White Walkers, since they will be at HH, capture Jon and we end his season arc on a huge cliffhanger, and then to introduce Bran next season a warged Summer rescues Jon.

I doubt it. The "Olly is Brutus" vibe is painfully strong.

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