Old Valyria and the Doom

[Pashernate Reader]

Just like the Americas was, by the Spanish, they avoided it because they were convinced they would fall off the edge of the world.

You misunderstand me. People don't avoid Valyria because they don't know what's there. They avoid Valyria because they do. It's not on the other side of the world. It's smack dab in the middle of Essos, in between Slaver's Bay and the Free Cities. People go around it, and when they don't, they usually don't come back. If they did, and they told everyone how nice it actually was, it wouldn't be avoided.

[ummester]

After Pompeii was destroyed, how long before people raided it? What about Minoa/Minos?

And, the previous modern example of Chernobyl - animals and plants are happy to go back, but most people are still shit scared of the place.

Show Valyria is The Sorrows/Valyria streamlined for TV - it works in context of GoTs. ASoIaF has an extreme amount of world building, like all fantasy nerdgasm books that are written in some kind of competition with Middle Earth, which is fine for that kind of book but it wouldn't work on TV.

There isn't a better or worse, both things work for their respective mediums.

[Pashernate Reader]

After Pompeii was destroyed, how long before people raided it?

It was buried. But it didn't take 400 years for people to resettle the area.

What about Minoa/Minos?

The Minoans were conquered by the Myceneans. Crete was never abandoned.

And, the previous modern example of Chernobyl - animals and plants are happy to go back, but most people are still shit scared of the place.

People regularly visit the Exclusion Zone. We know exactly what's there.

Show Valyria is The Sorrows/Valyria streamlined for TV - it works in context of GoTs. ASoIaF has an extreme amount of world building, like all fantasy nerdgasm books that are written in some kind of competition with Middle Earth, which is fine for that kind of book but it wouldn't work on TV.

There isn't a better or worse, both things work for their respective mediums.

I believe that was my original point. Whether or not people liked show!Valyria or book!Valyria, they are two completely different places.

[Hol Horse]

Superstition is basically "I don't believe what you believe." Kinda hard not to believe in all sorts of things when you're living in a world of dragons, magic, shadow-monsters, and more. That word's thrown around a lot and doesn't hold much weight.

Also, seems to be a lot of justification for show-Valyria here. If you like it that's fine. I thought it was interesting. But to say it's the 'correct' version is just silly. GRRM built the world and Valyria in a specific way for a reason. To say the characters are just making up stuff because they're afraid and ignorant completely discredits its description in the books. If that's the case, then maybe there aren't really any dragons, shadowbinders, and magical creatures and instead everyone's just high on an endless supply of shrooms and PCP.

As mentioned, we never get to see a first-hand account of Valyria, so there's no way to know for sure what's there and what isn't. We'll probably never get to see it this close and clearly, so everyone's free to hold their own beliefs about it. But it's pretty clear that show-Valyria and book-Valyria are two different places, and one shouldn't discredit the other. The show has a habit of toning down the fantastical and 'flashy' bits, so it's no surprise that they'd go with a more moderate representation of Valyria. Doesn't mean that's what George had it mind or how he sees it.

[HodoringHodor]

The toned down Valyria was great, the book-version would have looked out of place and far too Mordor-y to use I figure. The place felt more sad than threatening, which is appropriate for old ruins of a long gone civilization.

Not to mention that even according to the map they wouldn't see the volcanoes, the ruins they saw were either the ruins of Tyria or Oros, far away from volcanoes.

[Mr. Greenhands]

Book Spoiler Alert!

I am going to make a prediction here. I believe that Daenerys will fly off with Drogon in the show, but instead of going to the grasslands they go to Valyria and she stays there to regroup. That may be another reason why they showed Drogon here.

[Sunrise Nymph]

Superstition is basically "I don't believe what you believe." Kinda hard not to believe in all sorts of things when you're living in a world of dragons, magic, shadow-monsters, and more. That word's thrown around a lot and doesn't hold much weight.

Also, seems to be a lot of justification for show-Valyria here. If you like it that's fine. I thought it was interesting. But to say it's the 'correct' version is just silly. GRRM built the world and Valyria in a specific way for a reason. To say the characters are just making up stuff because they're afraid and ignorant completely discredits its description in the books. If that's the case, then maybe there aren't really any dragons, shadowbinders, and magical creatures and instead everyone's just high on an endless supply of shrooms and PCP.

As mentioned, we never get to see a first-hand account of Valyria, so there's no way to know for sure what's there and what isn't. We'll probably never get to see it this close and clearly, so everyone's free to hold their own beliefs about it. But it's pretty clear that show-Valyria and book-Valyria are two different places, and one shouldn't discredit the other. The show has a habit of toning down the fantastical and 'flashy' bits, so it's no surprise that they'd go with a more moderate representation of Valyria. Doesn't mean that's what George had it mind or how he sees it.

:agree:

[Dolorous Gabe]

Kill The Boy is the first episode this season that I've really enjoyed, though I felt Meereen was a bit nonsensical regarding Dany's actions (The Mad Queen?).

I don't have a big problem with the way they've streamlined The Royne with Valyria. They are, however, going to have to explain more about how greyscale spreads and as Jorah displayed knowledge that they send the Stonemen to Valyria it was a bit stupid to go through it (I think there should have been a slave ship in the distance at the start of the sequence that they decided to steer clear of).

As some others have pointed out, the Valyria sequence does a good job of telling viewers of the Doom and advancing Tyrion and Jorah's dynamic.

It would have been better not to reveal Jorah's greyscale at the end I think. That final shot of Jorah looking concerned would have been a better finish than the big reveal. Clever subtext is always better than an outright reveal. Have some faith in the viewers.

[I am a Dragon]

Book Spoiler Alert!

I am going to make a prediction here. I believe that Daenerys will fly off with Drogon in the show, but instead of going to the grasslands they go to Valyria and she stays there to regroup. That may be another reason why they showed Drogon here.

GRRM said that if we see Valyria, it will only be in flashbacks like Asshai

[God-Emperor of Yi Ti]

show Valyria is obviously meant to link into our knowledge of Rome/ Pompeii (e.g. the Colosseum type structure we see) By depicting it as such, they are able to use that sense of standing on the shoulders of giants that any visitor to Rome/ Pont du Gard/ Split has as "borrowed scenery" . A very clever televisual shorthand

[Ser Creighton]

That was not Valyria, that was the Rhoynar, just as in the books, D&D just changed the name. Valyria is also not hyped, Martin has talked about what disaster it was, and how it is. Tyrion does see Valyria from a great distance, it's glowing like a sunset. The sky is always red above Valyria, this was actually shown in the books.

Valyrian stone is also black not white, Martin talked about how the Valyrians could bend stone to their will and make it take all kinds of shapes. There are Martin approved pictures of it in the world book, and it looks nothing like that. These are pictures that Martin helped to describe to the artists what he wanted.

This is Valyria pre doom.

http://40.media.tumblr.com/7b136fccb4942c108ff1607bfa24b1d9/tumblr_ndz7x40PU11qb9jfwo1_1280.jpg

[-Ghost-]

They wanted the Sorrows without including the plot, so they closed their eyes and picked a random spot in between Volantis and Meereen. The whole thing is as nonsensical as Jorah sailing to Meereen in a dinghy.

So much this

[Sunspear Warrior]

I don't think the climate being volatile is legend in fact from a distance there should be like red sky as if something is burning. It being haunted might be just ghost tales, but with Valyria being bound my magic I won't be surprised if lot of that is true since when does Magic makes sense.

But the books state that several expeditions to Valyria failed and no one returned back. Now the rumors might have stemmed from all that but it doesn't take away from the fact that people still go there and come back alive.

Yeah, I understand that. They could have went about it a different way. But I can't recall them making those same references in the show that they do in the books. I just kind of like the idea of the show being different than the books simply because I don't want the show to spoil the remaining 2 books for me. They definitely could have made Valyria it least look more grim then it ended up looking in the show. But I dont have a huge problem with that.

[ser naes yennet]

i have mixed feelings about this, like a lot of us. i am trying to divorce to book from the show, and enjoy the show as a kind of "What If....?", like the old Marvel comic book.

that being said, one cool thing i just thought of during this scene is a bit of a link to the books. on The Shy Maid right after Tyrion figures out the identity of Young Grif, the Stonemen attack. here on the show, right after Tyion sees Drogon fly over head, the Stonemen attack. so in both, right after there is a reveleation about the existence of a 'dragon', the Stonemen attack. not the same, but a bit of a parallel for us readers, i think.

and another nod to the readers may have been in the very beginiing of the scene of Tyrion and Jorah in the boat, the first thing Tyrion says is, "This isn't the Rhoyne.". so this is the show telling us that they know where they should be, with a wink and a nod to the reader and Tyrion being the voice of us.

[Rusalochka]

I was suuuuuper excited when I saw that scene because I knew people didn't go to Valyeria in the books, and have been thinking about it for the past month. I was bummed to know we were never going there, but really wanted to know how D&D would show us if they could. I am glad they did! I was so memorized, I shrieked when I saw the "gargoyle" move and jump into the water in the background--lol!

Having some art background, I just wanted to say that we have to remember this is A) one interpretation that B ) was changed to fix the context of the adaption (which to me means "realism"). I avoided watching the show for a long time until I learned the focus wasn't so much on magic, but on people, history, and political drama. Now that I am a fan, I do wish they would talk more about the trees, children of the forest, direwolves, and Valyeria... but I also understand why they don't. to show-watchers like me, they are mysterious and can't wait to learn more when the time comes. I really hope we see Bran "flying" towards the end of season 5. :)

I mean, if we wanted to be more realistic, shouldn't have tyrion and jorrah been as red as lobsters coming out of the sea? Seeing them like that would have made that scene a bit comical, in my opinion. I just wish the reveal of grayscale would have been left ambiguous, just like "tainted meat" on Walking Dead.

Lasty, Valyeria does not seem safe at all. I don't know the specifics and what is mentioned in the books, but it looks very eerie on the show. Hauntingly beautiful, I would say.

[WSmith84]

My only problem with it was just that it didn't seem like a place that had been destroyed by some cataclysmic event. It just looked like some old ruins, and if someone would just tidy it up you could make it into a pleasant holiday home. And if people stopped sending Stone Men there. Also, if you can't make the river you're filming on look like a sea, just make the thing a river.

Had it not been a place that was meant to have been annihilated by volcanoes, I would have thought it looked great.

[Eucratides_Megas]

Ya I like the idea that Valyria is more hype and supersition. That in reality it is just a very very old ancient and awesome ruin that came down because of some terrible fate. No demons and other crazy stuff...well other then Stone Men.

This is the sort of thing that irritates me most in fiction, the desire to unravel every mystery till all we're left with is a dissected pile of parts that once comprised something ominous, grand, terrifying and incredibly powerful to our subconscious.

It's like finding out the Lovecraftian Reapers in Mass Effect were just machines stuck in an eternally stupid logic loop of "harvesting" organics to save them from other machines.

Give me a ruined city of fallen gods and haunted demons at the edge of understanding over a relatively lame, oddly lush and verdant landscape with a few greyscale lepers hanging out for dwarves and knights to play with tag with.

[WSmith84]

This is the sort of thing that irritates me most in fiction, the desire to unravel every mystery till all we're left with is a dissected pile of parts that once comprised something ominous, grand, terrifying and incredibly powerful to our subconscious.

It's like finding out the Lovecraftian Reapers in Mass Effect were just machines stuck in an eternally stupid logic loop of "harvesting" organics to save them from other machines.

Give me a ruined city of fallen gods and haunted demons at the edge of understanding over a relatively lame, oddly lush and verdant landscape with a few greyscale lepers hanging out for dwarves and knights to play with tag with.

Ugh. I'm still feeling the disappointment from that ending.

[Eucratides_Megas]

My only problem with it was just that it didn't seem like a place that had been destroyed by some cataclysmic event. It just looked like some old ruins, and if someone would just tidy it up you could make it into a pleasant holiday home. And if people stopped sending Stone Men there. Also, if you can't make the river you're filming on look like a sea, just make the thing a river.

Had it not been a place that was meant to have been annihilated by volcanoes, I would have thought it looked great.

It also takes Quaithe's tattooing bit of the guy who passed too close to the Doom and throws it out the window. Of all the places they could have set the Stone men in, why Valyria? Did they want to impress us with the banality of their vision? Tyrion's awe-struck reverence over the decaying aqueduct and something suspiciously close to Titus's arch covered in jungle just made me think King's Landing looked grander.

Valyria was supposed to look something like Orthanc in LOTR or Minas Tirrith on steroids, something so seamless and massive that it seemed to have been literally carved from the earth rather than built.

[Eucratides_Megas]

Ugh. I'm still feeling the disappointment from that ending.

It's somewhat more palatable when you flip the bird to the green and blue choices and stick to the "Renegade" option, plus have the extended ending DLC installed. But yeah, that explanation....god, the whole backstory.... It took one of the most frightening and truly magnificent villain premises and just poured its hack Sci-Fi sauce all over it.

Had the Reapers just been left to our own imaginations, something terrifyingly immune to our understanding of reason, logic and the laws of the universe, that would've been more than enough.