Jon Snow in Season 5

[It's raining in Castamere]

His story has been great throughout the whole season (Beheading Slynt, his talks with Stannis and Aemon & the letter from lyanna mormount) but in my opinion tonights episode showed us the determination, foresight and balls that Jon lacked in the first seasons.

Is it just me or are you guys also feeling that this years Jon is the closest to the book and most interesting so far? Of course not everything was pefect: The election for example felt to Disney. But he started getting into his book self by the end of season 4 and is for me the MVP for the first 5 Episodes this year. As for the reasons I think it's both that Kit has gotten better as an Actor but the writing for his character has clearly improved as well.

[Sultan of Westeros]

He is one of the few good guys left in the show. Audience is pulling away from Dany due to her incompetence and craziness hence renewed focus on Jon and Stannis.

[DemiNymph]

I thought it was weird that as Lord Commander, Jon Snow is able to leave the castle to go on a quest. How can the leader leave just like that? It's different from Mormont's ranging. Mormont took the bulk of the men together with him. Jon would have left the bulk of the black brothers behind. It doesn't make sense for a newly elected leader to go away. That's not how things are done.

[Chilli]

I wonder if they will let Jon come back in Castle Black after his mission in Hardhome. Maybe that's when 'For the Watch' happens. I can see them deny entrance.

[robasp2]

I thought it was weird that as Lord Commander, Jon Snow is able to leave the castle to go on a quest. How can the leader leave just like that? It's different from Mormont's ranging. Mormont took the bulk of the men together with him. Jon would have left the bulk of the black brothers behind. It doesn't make sense for a newly elected leader to go away. That's not how things are done.

He has no other choice. Wildlings wont believe him.

Btw I think Lord Commander can do whatever the fuck they like

[Tyrion4President]

I wonder if they will let Jon come back in Castle Black after his mission in Hardhome. Maybe that's when 'For the Watch' happens. I can see them deny entrance.

The 'for the watch' cant just happen after any scene. What made it such an incredible scene in the book was the pink letter that put Jon in a position to make a tough decision followed by a huge rallying speech. The momentum from such a buildup was completely crushed when the 'for the watch' happen which made it that much better.

[Tagganaro]

The 'for the watch' cant just happen after any scene. What made it such an incredible scene in the book was the pink letter that put Jon in a position to make a tough decision followed by a huge rallying speech. The momentum from such a buildup was completely crushed when the 'for the watch' happen which made it that much better.

Yes. The show has changed A LOT of things, but I can't imagine them removing the Pink Letter in its entirety. The whole momentum of it propels directly into the letdown of the Ides of Marsh. You can't really have one without the other, as the whole point is to get everyone all pumped up with "Oh yeah, Jon's going to kick Ramsay's ass" and then have it suddenly cut the other way.

[aFeastForDragons]

With team Dragonstone at Castle Black it has made the Wall scenes much more entertaining. Also how they are dealing with the aftermath of the battle has been great. Jon Snow has had some great scenes. They made a complete mess of his story in S 4 and beyond the wall in S3 but they've pulled his character together in S5.

With Stannis leaving and Jon soon to depart on his own campaign it will get even better.

I'm 100% confident we will see the Pink Letter. Its to juicy and tense not to end with "For the Watch".

[Tyrion4President]

Yes. The show has changed A LOT of things, but I can't imagine them removing the Pink Letter in its entirety. The whole momentum of it propels directly into the letdown of the Ides of Marsh. You can't really have one without the other, as the whole point is to get everyone all pumped up with "Oh yeah, Jon's going to kick Ramsay's ass" and then have it suddenly cut the other way.

I gotta say that when I first read that chapter I got soo pumped up after reading the letter. I must have read it out loud 10 times before continuing the chapter only to have my dreams crushed in an instant. I think I threw the book after that but then I picked it up and re read the letter again B)

[Faint]

Watching the last five episodes I get the distinct impression that Benioff and Weiss were bored reading Jon's narrative in A Dance with Dragons and decided to excise the whole thing besides the beginning and end.

[Tagganaro]

Watching the last five episodes I get the distinct impression that Benioff and Weiss were bored reading Jon's narrative in A Dance with Dragons and decided to excise the whole thing besides the beginning and end.

I get the same impression with Dany in Mereen :cool4: . I can't necessarily blame them either, on a TV show it's tougher to focus in on some of the internal battles taking place, which are key in Jon and Dany's "Learning to Lead" chapters. You can't really have scene after scene of Jon debating wildling racism and food storages with Bowen Marsh on the TV show, so you add in a ranging to Hardhome. You can't really have scene after scene of Dany debating the impacts of slavery and fighting with Daario/Hizdahr/the Green Grace, so you add in the Grey Worm/Barristan battle (and unfortunately the interminably awful Grey Worm/Missandei stuff).

I gotta say that when I first read that chapter I got soo pumped up after reading the letter. I must have read it out loud 10 times before continuing the chapter only to have my dreams crushed in an instant. I think I threw the book after that but then I picked it up and re read the letter again B)

Yeah, it was really a great bait and switch by GRRM. So pumped for Jon and Tormund to go whup Ramsay's ass and then all of a sudden...not happening.

[dbunting]

I hate to say this but I can see the pink letter getting cut really easily. Some of the biggest parts of it were from Mance being in Winterfell with his washerwomen. He isn't there and neither are they. Jon was going to Hardhome in the book until he got the Pink letter and changed his mind. We know from previews that Jon does go to Hardhome this season and there is a battle there, so that has been changed.

Prepare yourself just in case it is cut!

[CrastorsLivingSon]

The Pink Letter content could easily be changed. Brienne or anything else added.

Seeing how the show has been leaving more plot holes this season I can easily see "For the Watch" happening at Hardhome and his body brought back to Castle Black by the surviving wildlings. Which makes no sense what-so-ever; which means it is quite likely to happen this season. :bang:

[Arplus Elisjay]

He is one of the few good guys left in the show. Audience is pulling away from Dany due to her incompetence and craziness hence renewed focus on Jon and Stannis.

To be honest I don't even like the Dany chapters in the book. Once she got into Slavers Bay her story ground to a halt.

[Arplus Elisjay]

I hate to say this but I can see the pink letter getting cut really easily. Some of the biggest parts of it were from Mance being in Winterfell with his washerwomen. He isn't there and neither are they. Jon was going to Hardhome in the book until he got the Pink letter and changed his mind. We know from previews that Jon does go to Hardhome this season and there is a battle there, so that has been changed.

Prepare yourself just in case it is cut!

Yeah, I agree - with the timing it doesn't look like the pink letter makes sense anyway. In a way, I like what the show is doing better, positioning the ambient people of Winterfell as Sansa's support network. I think the pink letter is expendable.

[Arplus Elisjay]

Watching the last five episodes I get the distinct impression that Benioff and Weiss were bored reading Jon's narrative in A Dance with Dragons and decided to excise the whole thing besides the beginning and end.

Well a lot of it was logistical stuff about manning castles, dealing with food supply, and negotiating between all the different squatters at Castle Black.

[Tagganaro]

I hate to say this but I can see the pink letter getting cut really easily. Some of the biggest parts of it were from Mance being in Winterfell with his washerwomen. He isn't there and neither are they. Jon was going to Hardhome in the book until he got the Pink letter and changed his mind. We know from previews that Jon does go to Hardhome this season and there is a battle there, so that has been changed.

Prepare yourself just in case it is cut!

Yeah, I agree - with the timing it doesn't look like the pink letter makes sense anyway. In a way, I like what the show is doing better, positioning the ambient people of Winterfell as Sansa's support network. I think the pink letter is expendable.

While I see your points, I'm just not sure the show can cut this out. Even reading Unsullied, people are looking forward to a showdown between Jon and Ramsay. I think it would be a huge mistake to not at least tease it more before the Ides.

I think the bigger reason for Hardhome is to cushion Jon's beginning and end with a huge action sequence. I could just see the timeline being reversed on the show where Jon returns from Hardhome, then receives the Pink Letter, and then the Ides happen.

But yes, it's certainly possible the Ides happen as Jon returns from Hardhome trying to bring wildlings back through the Wall, and the Pink Letter is cut out entirely.

[Budj]

Why can't it happen AT Hardhome? I could see the meeting getting dropped in on by some dead stuff and the NW taking the ships and conveniently leaving Jon behind. Might be a different way to play out the mutiny?

[Benjaario Starkharis]

I don't know if we will get the Pink Letter, but I'm almost sure that Jon will get some bad news from Winterfell and decide to march south before he gets stabbed.

[Arplus Elisjay]

While I see your points, I'm just not sure the show can cut this out. Even reading Unsullied, people are looking forward to a showdown between Jon and Ramsay. I think it would be a huge mistake to not at least tease it more before the Ides.

I think the bigger reason for Hardhome is to cushion Jon's beginning and end with a huge action sequence. I could just see the timeline being reversed on the show where Jon returns from Hardhome, then receives the Pink Letter, and then the Ides happen.

But yes, it's certainly possible the Ides happen as Jon returns from Hardhome trying to bring wildlings back through the Wall, and the Pink Letter is cut out entirely.

I'll admit, I was never (as a reader or a viewer) looking toward a conflict between Jon and Ramsay. I always saw Ramsay as a small villain in the grand scheme of things, while Jon was being primed to be a major hero - so when I think of the counterpoint to Jon, I look to Kings Landing (or perhaps Meereen) rather than Winterfell.