The Kind Nihilist Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 You're equating a situation where she was a prisoner with no autonomy to her current state? Wasn't the whole point of the S4 finale that she finally gained some agency and had the Vale Lords in her pocket, giving her an edge over Littlefinger? Anyway: How dare you!? That sounds so logical... but it would imply that D&D's plotting for the North actually makes no sense at all... almost insinuating they concocted some contrived bullshit just to get Sansa raped... That is preposterous! Oh ye of little faith, the barbarities you can come up with... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Guy Garlan Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 No. You need to read the definition of "filler." "Filler" is material that is provided for the express intention of making a piece longer. It typically refers to newspaper or magazine articles that are required to have a certain news length, or to TV shows or other skits that have a specific time limit they don't quite hit. There is ZERO filler in ASOIAF. Every single word is there for a reason. Nothing is there to make the book longer. Perhaps you don't like it, or find it boring. That doesn't make it "filler." It is not.This is the height of delusion. I don't know if I should laugh or cry or both.GRRM is not fucking Cortazar, ok? The last two novels are bloated beyond belief and could've used a good editing from an editor with a spine, and especially in aFfC you can just see GRRM racking his brain to see what other extraneous character or ~world-building element~ he can make up to increase that word count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kind Nihilist Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 And I believe I just lost my virginity at double-posting... so underwhelming... I was expecting at least a short-lasting buzz.... but it's just like GoT... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodor's Dragon Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 This is the height of delusion. I don't know if I should laugh or cry or both.GRRM is not fucking Cortazar, ok? The last two novels are bloated beyond belief and could've used a good editing from an editor with a spine, and especially in aFfC you can just see GRRM racking his brain to see what other extraneous character or ~world-building element~ he can make up to increase that word count. Are you really and truly saying that he intentionally wrote things just to make the books longer? I'm sorry, that's ridiculous on so many levels I'm not going to bother to list them all, but nobody who knew anything at all about either the craft or the business of writing would take your suggestion as anything other than a joke. Is it a joke? My apologies if it is. Otherwise, sheesh. . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kind Nihilist Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 No. You need to read the definition of "filler." "Filler" is material that is provided for the express intention of making a piece longer. It typically refers to newspaper or magazine articles that are required to have a certain news length, or to TV shows or other skits that have a specific time limit they don't quite hit. There is ZERO filler in ASOIAF. Every single word is there for a reason. Nothing is there to make the book longer. Perhaps you don't like it, or find it boring. That doesn't make it "filler." It is not. I totally disagree. And I'm 100% sure that once we get TWOW we will all be saying that AFFC and ADWD were just filler after all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kind Nihilist Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Tbh Talisa is more believable than Jeyne Westerling I really have to ask why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NymeriaWarriorQueen Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Someone proposed this: http://boiledleather.com/post/24543217702/a-proposed-a-feast-for-crows-a-dance-with-dragons I'll definitely give it a try next time I go for a read.Interrupting the discussion to say that a few months ago I reread AFFC and ADWD using the format at Boiled Leather and I highly recommend doing so. It is especially helpful in remembering the chronology if you have had a break between the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Guy Garlan Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Are you really and truly saying that he intentionally wrote things just to make the books longer? I'm sorry, that's ridiculous on so many levels I'm not going to bother to list them all, but nobody who knew anything at all about either the craft or the business of writing would take your suggestion as anything other than a joke. Is it a joke? My apologies if it is. Otherwise, sheesh. . . .Please, I have experience in the business and I know for a FACT that there's a thing called word count and that publishers/editors ask writers to meet it. But you know what, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe GRRM didn't fatten up that sorry cow called aFfC willingly because he realized he didn't have enough material or because he was trying to buy himself some time to work out the Meereenese Knot. Maybe he did it accidentally by getting caught up in Brienne's tangential wanderings, or Sam's...everything. And poor him, didn't have an editor to remind him of one of the cardinal rules for writing: economy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodor's Dragon Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 I totally disagree. And I'm 100% sure that once we get TWOW we will all be saying that AFFC and ADWD were just filler after all.. Dude. Please google a definition of the word "filler." Please, I have experience in the business and I know for a FACT that there's a thing called word count and that publishers/editors ask writers to meet it.But you know what, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe GRRM didn't fatten up that sorry cow called aFfC willingly because he realized he didn't have enough material or because he was trying to buy himself some time to work out the Meereenese Knot. Maybe he did it accidentally by getting caught up in Brienne's tangential wanderings, or Sam's...everything. And poor him, didn't have an editor to remind him of one of the cardinal rules for writing: economy. It's not maybe you're wrong. It's 100% you're wrong. There is zero chance, z-e-r-o, that Martin intentionally inflated the word count on these books. Zero. None. Nada. Zilch. Of course there's a thing called word count. These books are about 300% over the commercially ideal word count. The high number of pages and words hurt their sales. That is elementary. This has nothing to do with whether you like the books, or even with whether the books were economically written, Filler is about intent, it is about filling out word counts. And no, no, no, no, no, no, no, that did not happen here. It's a ridiculous idea that runs counter to any kind of artistic or commercial goals that either Martin or his publishers or editors could possibly have had. So please stop using the word "filler." Criticize the books however you like, but when you say "filler," you are flat-out wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Guy Garlan Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Dude. Please google a definition of the word "filler." It's not maybe you're wrong. It's 100% you're wrong. There is zero chance, z-e-r-o, that Martin intentionally inflated the word count on these books. Zero. None. Nada. Zilch. Of course there's a thing called word count. These books are about 300% over the commercially ideal word count. The high number of pages and words hurt their sales. That is elementary. This has nothing to do with whether you like the books, or even with whether the books were economically written, Filler is about intent, it is about filling out word counts. And no, no, no, no, no, no, no, that did not happen here. It's a ridiculous idea that runs counter to any kind of artistic or commercial goals that either Martin or his publishers or editors could possibly have had. So please stop using the word "filler." Criticize the books however you like, but when you say "filler," you are flat-out wrong.Well, since you obviously live inside GRRM's head to know his intentions, would you mind telling us the ending of WoW, pretty please?I can (and will) say that those books are chock full of filler because that's how I see it, no matter how many nerves I touch. There's simply no other word to describe the baffling amount of unnecessary details that GRRM managed to cram in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kind Nihilist Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Dude. Please google a definition of the word "filler." Dude, I was taking the piss, as you're want to in a thread called 'the show isn't diverting from the books that much after all'... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodor's Dragon Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Well, since you obviously live inside GRRM's head to know his intentions, would you mind telling us the ending of WoW, pretty please?I can (and will) say that those books are chock full of filler because that's how I see it, no matter how many nerves I touch. There's simply no other word to describe the baffling amount of unnecessary details that GRRM managed to cram in there. It doesn't require mind-reading to know with 100% certainty that nothing in these books is "filler." It's a ridiculous idea, entirely counter-productive in every imaginable way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StepStark Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Dude. Please google a definition of the word "filler." It's not maybe you're wrong. It's 100% you're wrong. There is zero chance, z-e-r-o, that Martin intentionally inflated the word count on these books. Zero. None. Nada. Zilch. Of course there's a thing called word count. These books are about 300% over the commercially ideal word count. The high number of pages and words hurt their sales. That is elementary. This has nothing to do with whether you like the books, or even with whether the books were economically written, Filler is about intent, it is about filling out word counts. And no, no, no, no, no, no, no, that did not happen here. It's a ridiculous idea that runs counter to any kind of artistic or commercial goals that either Martin or his publishers or editors could possibly have had. So please stop using the word "filler." Criticize the books however you like, but when you say "filler," you are flat-out wrong.I can only thank you for your contribution because it was time that someone answer those silly accusations about fillers. I just want to say that few years ago Martin was asked does he thinks that maybe he should cut out something from five books. He answered that that one Arys chapter from AFFC was expandable and that its content could have easily be covered by someone else POV most probably Ariane's. He said that if he went back in time he would probably not give POV to Arys. About everything else he said that he wouldn't cut out anything. Now we can believe Martin or we can believe people who just want to see Dany and dragons in Westeros. I am happy that I don't have to play hipster and shit on everything I don't understand and that I can trust Martin who is by the way maybe the most open author I know of. I don't know which other celebrated author would even answered questions like that but he does. And also he has first three books to show that he really cares about everything that he writes and that it all eventually amounts to something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mourneblade Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 This is the height of delusion. I don't know if I should laugh or cry or both.GRRM is not fucking Cortazar, ok? The last two novels are bloated beyond belief and could've used a good editing from an editor with a spine, and especially in aFfC you can just see GRRM racking his brain to see what other extraneous character or ~world-building element~ he can make up to increase that word count. That is your opinion and you are entitled to it... I personally enjoyed the inclusion of every thing that is going on, it increased the vastness and scope which added to the flavor for me.... for me the Journey is just as important as the end game, and this is the difference between great... and epic. This story is epic and a once in a lifetime experience IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fjordgazer Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Here in Latin America, we use the word "filler" when an adaptation creates a story not found in the source material, in order for the source material to catch up: happens a lot in manga-to-anime adaptations. We usually don't use "filler" within the context of the source material alone; by this definition, there's no such thing as filler for an original author in his own work. I know, too convenient a definition for me, but that is it. We use other words for authors lengthening their content on purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Guy Garlan Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Well, I'm sure GRRM would be glad to know he has such devoted stans, that's for sure. But for my part I think praising every fart that comes out the man's ass is counterproductive, and too much indulgence is...unhealthyThen again, what do I know? I'm just an opinionated floppy fish. I'm sure there's an iron-clad reason for every single mossy rock GRRM includes in the books. Who knows, maybe Dick Straw turns out to be Azor Ahai and it makes everything worthwhile! And if not, I'm sure you dedicated fans can always find it in yourselves to justify every single little tree stump under the convenient label of (ahem) ~ world-building, or character development, or thematic depth, or athmospheric enhancement~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonSnowed Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Well I am glad someone else has said this, the level of hate has gone well over board in my eyes. The show is covering two big books which include a lot of pretty bland story in doing so they are limited by time and casting limitations. I would have liked to have seen Aegon and Euronext but there is no way they include them in the limited time so I feel our best hope is that they come next season during the Wonds plot lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fjordgazer Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 All I know is The Reaver chapter from AFFC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the whole first half of Season 5. Plot movement, action, blood, nudity, it has all that show fans want. But some readers will call that "filler", just because they hate the Ironborn, but they will swear it's for "objective" reasons. Everyone can set their own standard of what is and what isn't "filler" (as per Floppy Fish's definition). That doesn't mean they're right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnsmith Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Look in the glossary, appendix, of the first book Game of Thrones under the Greyjoys then look under House Martell What do we find, characters that need explanation. Characters we have yet to read about, until much later on in the story. With these characters comes explanations, processes, histories, arcs, existence and a story. The pace had changed slighty from previous books going into the last two, chapters had moved into places as some characters merged together. Much of it was because it was the eye of the storm. Please tell that these characters, events, many had been given reference throughout prior, are just supposed to be cut out because you think these fantasy novels are like Conan or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodsteel bitterraven Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Did someone just say that Talisa is more believable than Jeyne Westerling? hahahahahahahahahahahahaha noble lady from Volantis went to the Riverlands to work as a nurse on the battlefield. First of all, how did she go? Where was she staying? What was she eating? How come she wasn't raped multiple times by any of the soldiers she was encountering like other unprotected girls were in that area?Her story doesn't make any sense at all and is so 20th-21st century. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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