The show isn’t diverting from the books that much after all.

[The One And Only]

This is cool. You started trolling us on the Rant and Rave threads, and now that they're off you actually bother to follow us through the forum lol :rofl:lol

What did I say that was untrue?

The author literally created filler to fill in a period of time because he couldn't figure a good way to pick up the story 5 years later.

You can comment on the topic...

[The Kind Nihilist]

Is it really hard to believe that someone studying screenwriting in the UCLA extension program has been in touch with editors and publishers, especially if they're teachers at said institution?

God, your life must be so small...

Sorry, but that's what you meant with your assertive 'Please, I have experience in the business!'?

:rofl:

[The One And Only]

From GRRM himself.... He added filler because he couldn't figure out the 5 year gap....

I'm obsessed with the five-year gap you originally planned in the middle of the series. How would that have happened?

Originally, there was not supposed to be any gap. There was just supposed to be a passage of time as the book went forward. My original concept back in 1991 was, I would start with these characters as children, and they would get older. If you pick up Arya at eight, the second chapter would be a couple months later, and she would be eight and a half and [then] she'd be nine. [This would happen] all within the space of a book.

But when I actually got into writing them, the events have a certain momentum. So you write a chapter and then in your next chapter, it can't be six months later, because something's going to happen the next day. So you have to write what happens the next day, and then you have to write what happens the week after that. And the news gets to some other place.

And pretty soon, you've written hundreds of pages and a week has passed, instead of the six months, or the year that you wanted to pass. So you end a book, and you've had a tremendous amount of events — but they've taken place over a short time frame, and the eight-year-old kid is still eight years old.

So that really took hold of me for the first three books. When it became apparent that that had taken hold of me, I came up with the idea of the five year gap. "Time is not passing here as I want it to pass, so I will jump forward five years in time." And I will come back to these characters when they're a little more grown up. And that is what I tried to do when I started writing Feast for Crows. So [the gap] would have come after A Storm of Swords and beforeFeast for Crows.

But what I soon discovered — and I struggled with this for a year — [the gap] worked well with some characters like Arya — who at end the of torm of Swordsas taken off for Braavos. You can come back five years later, and she has had five years of training and all that. Or Bran, who was taken in by the Children of the Forest and the green ceremony, [so you could] come back to him five years later. That’s good. Works for him.

Other characters, it didn’t work at all. I'm writing the Cersei chapters in King's Landing, and saying, "Well yeah, in five years, six different guys have served as Hand and there was this conspiracy four years ago, and this thing happened three years ago." And I'm presenting all of this in flashbacks, and that wasn't working. The other alternative was [that] nothing happened in those six years, which seemed anticlimactic. The Jon Snow stuff was even worse, because at the end of Storm he gets elected Lord Commander. I'm picking up there, and writing 'Well five years ago, I was elected Lord Commander. Nothing much has happened since then, but now things are starting to happen again." I finally, after a year, said, "I can't make this work."

[Good Guy Garlan]

Sorry, but that's what you meant with your assertive 'Please, I have experience in the business!'?

:rofl:

Well, I'd wager I have more experience than you in absolutely every field, so...

[The Kind Nihilist]

You don't even know what 'topic' means. lol Goodbye

[The Kind Nihilist]

Well, I'd wager I have more experience than you in absolutely every field, so...

:rofl:

[Good Guy Garlan]

:rofl:

Wow, that's creative

[Hodor's Dragon]

From GRRM himself.... He added filler because he couldn't figure out the 5 year gap....

I'm obsessed with the five-year gap you originally planned in the middle of the series. How would that have happened?

Originally, there was not supposed to be any gap. There was just supposed to be a passage of time as the book went forward. My original concept back in 1991 was, I would start with these characters as children, and they would get older. If you pick up Arya at eight, the second chapter would be a couple months later, and she would be eight and a half and [then] she'd be nine. [This would happen] all within the space of a book.

But when I actually got into writing them, the events have a certain momentum. So you write a chapter and then in your next chapter, it can't be six months later, because something's going to happen the next day. So you have to write what happens the next day, and then you have to write what happens the week after that. And the news gets to some other place.

And pretty soon, you've written hundreds of pages and a week has passed, instead of the six months, or the year that you wanted to pass. So you end a book, and you've had a tremendous amount of events — but they've taken place over a short time frame, and the eight-year-old kid is still eight years old.

So that really took hold of me for the first three books. When it became apparent that that had taken hold of me, I came up with the idea of the five year gap. "Time is not passing here as I want it to pass, so I will jump forward five years in time." And I will come back to these characters when they're a little more grown up. And that is what I tried to do when I started writing Feast for Crows. So [the gap] would have come after A Storm of Swords and beforeFeast for Crows.

But what I soon discovered — and I struggled with this for a year — [the gap] worked well with some characters like Arya — who at end the of torm of Swordsas taken off for Braavos. You can come back five years later, and she has had five years of training and all that. Or Bran, who was taken in by the Children of the Forest and the green ceremony, [so you could] come back to him five years later. That’s good. Works for him.

Other characters, it didn’t work at all. I'm writing the Cersei chapters in King's Landing, and saying, "Well yeah, in five years, six different guys have served as Hand and there was this conspiracy four years ago, and this thing happened three years ago." And I'm presenting all of this in flashbacks, and that wasn't working. The other alternative was [that] nothing happened in those six years, which seemed anticlimactic. The Jon Snow stuff was even worse, because at the end of Storm he gets elected Lord Commander. I'm picking up there, and writing 'Well five years ago, I was elected Lord Commander. Nothing much has happened since then, but now things are starting to happen again." I finally, after a year, said, "I can't make this work."

This is supposed to mean these books are filler somehow?

Martin originally intended to end a chapter and start the next chapter with "Five years later, . . . ." As he planned this out, he didn't like the way it unfolded and the ways things had to be explained, so he decided to describe that part of the story instead of leap over it. Put differently, he restructured his outline, which is a fairly standard part of the writing process for some authors, especially authors who write books with grand, intricate plots where a lot of strands must be tied together. Planning can be a more elaborate process than writing the books, and you can go through a lot of plans before you find the one what works.

But whatever your final plan is . . . when you write the books . . . you plan them to be as good as you can make them. Whether a part of the story was in your original outline or added in the 3rd draft doesn't mean squadoosh. The final product of every single thing is equally at the limit of how you good you can make it. Sure, some of it turns out better than other parts, but not because the writer intends it to be inferior.

This idea of a guy who had already written thousands of pages into a story just deciding he had to write extra stuff only to make the books longer . . . I mean, Jesus. It makes my head hurt to think that there are people who think things like that.

[The One And Only]

This is supposed to mean these books are filler somehow?

Martin originally intended to end a chapter and start the next chapter with "Five years later, . . . ." As he planned this out, he didn't like the way it unfolded and the ways things had to be explained, so he decided to describe that part of the story instead of leap over it. Put differently, he restructured his outline, which is a fairly standard part of the writing process for some authors, especially authors who write books with grand, intricate plots where a lot of strands must be tied together. Planning can be a more elaborate process than writing the books, and you can go through a lot of plans before you find the one what works.

But whatever your final plan is . . . when you write the books . . . you plan them to be as good as you can make them. Whether a part of the story was in your original outline or added in the 3rd draft doesn't mean squadoosh. The final product of every single thing is equally at the limit of how you good you can make it. Sure, some of it turns out better than other parts, but not because the writer intends it to be inferior.

This idea of a guy who had already written thousands of pages into a story just deciding he had to write extra stuff only to make the books longer . . . I mean, Jesus. It makes my head hurt to think that there are people who think things like that.

Arya training is filler. Bran training is filler. Jon & Dany ruling is filler. He admits he couldn't find a way to just skip the 5 years,so he had to fill in all of the gaps to make the story.

He wrote extra pages because he was stuck in a knot.

[ummester]

This makes the assumption that if the books were already completed, D&D wouldn't make changes to the story. They would. They would need to. The books being completed don't really matter here, despite what some may think.

Of course, they would need to make editing changes, cut out some subplots and superfluous information. But I disagree that the books not being completed makes no difference - all D&D have is GRRMs road map, they don't know the detail of how to get there and GRRM could change any planned detail and even the destination, if he really wanted - which doesn't seem impossible, as GRRM is a somewhat organic writer. It is therefore possible to end up with a different story on screen to what is on page - because an incomplete story was sold for adaptation.

Re the whole filler thing - some of you are bigger word Nazis than Stannis :D Let's call it something different - story that may be superfluous to the main story and resolution of the primary character arcs - books 4 & 5 seem to have a lot of this.

Dany is going to go all fire and blood, do we really need a convoluted political mystery in Mereen to take us there?

[Lovely Lyanna]

Sometimes I wonder what the fuck is wrong with us?

A group of jobless people writing page after page of our rants, suggestions and stuff.

D&D will never know or even bother. They have already started writing Season 6.

I wonder why we invest so much time for discussing entertainment..

LMAO Just when I thought I had managed to get out, you just pulled me back in.

[Fjordgazer]

Dany is going to go all fire and blood, do we really need a convoluted political mystery in Mereen to take us there?

More or less what the show is doing = BORING. Sorry, but i need some complexity in my stories. Otherwise, i'd be watching the Uncel Dolan show on Youtube.

[Yield.]

Is it really hard to believe that someone studying screenwriting in the UCLA extension program has been in touch with editors and publishers, especially if they're teachers at said institution?

God, your life must be so small...

This is the kind of shit that got the Rant and Rave thread canned. I get both your point and that you are upset with being called to account for it but please, enough with the personal insults.

~ This goes out to all who feel the need to be assholes! Please, please cut it out or we will have another outlet for our discontent shut down! ~

Wow, that's creative

That's at the very least is not personally insulting, but still not helping your argument.

If you have to resort to insulting or demeaning your descenders then it's a pretty good indicator that your premise is faulty. Not their fault they have respectfully (from what I can see) called you out on it.

[Yield.]

Arya training is filler. Bran training is filler. Jon & Dany ruling is filler. He admits he couldn't find a way to just skip the 5 years,so he had to fill in all of the gaps to make the story.

He wrote extra pages because he was stuck in a knot.

Bran has all of 3 chapters, all of which show his arduous journey, his new situation and give us never before seen insight in how the Children of the Forest survive both winter and the attack of magical beings like wights.

Arya has a few more (3+?) but again we get the valuable information that she is not sanctioned to kill anyone she knows. When she does (Daeron) she is punished for it and it also shows that she is best pupil there. Also we see her slipping into a cat, something that so far only Bran can do. It shows not only her growing abilities but also provides us with a needed excuse as to why she may not finish her training.

Both Jon and Dany need to learn how to rule.

Jon's ultimate outcome needs set up or else it will feel like stuff is happening out of the blue. And lets not even mention that without his chapters we would never know the extant of Mel's power, how Stannis is actually flexible rather than just a stick in the mud or how Jon chafes against the restrictions of his vows.

I agree that Dany's could have been shorter but how then to show her attempts at all other means to rule justly are a failure?

[Facebookless Man]

Of course, they would need to make editing changes, cut out some subplots and superfluous information. But I disagree that the books not being completed makes no difference - all D&D have is GRRMs road map, they don't know the detail of how to get there and GRRM could change any planned detail and even the destination, if he really wanted - which doesn't seem impossible, as GRRM is a somewhat organic writer. It is therefore possible to end up with a different story on screen to what is on page - because an incomplete story was sold for adaptation.

Re the whole filler thing - some of you are bigger word Nazis than Stannis :D Let's call it something different - story that may be superfluous to the main story and resolution of the primary character arcs - books 4 & 5 seem to have a lot of this.

Dany is going to go all fire and blood, do we really need a convoluted political mystery in Mereen to take us there?

ANY story can be told in a single page. All you need to do is remove....the actual story. Which is exactly what D&D are doing. And no amount of boobs, snarky dialogue and CGI dragons can salvage that.

[Lord Eddard]

ANY story can be told in a single page. All you need to do is remove....the actual story. Which is exactly what D&D are doing. And no amount of boobs, snarky dialogue and CGI dragons can salvage that.

Good for you that you are not forced to watch it then. I for one am glad that D&D shortened Tyrion, Dany and Arya so they are enjoyable again. Before the season started I was in dread of having to sit through five episodes of Tyrion drinking, pissing, endlessly travelling, swimming with turtles and muttering "Where do whores go?" ad nauseam. Thank God for D&D.

[Facebookless Man]

Um... who forced you to read the books?

What is with you people and taking criticisms of a TV show as some kind of personal slight? Why the urge to take part in a conversation when you don't have anything to say?