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6fingerhobb

The burning of Jon Snow's body

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I have read a lot of theories about Jon Snow and his stabbing in the last Chapter of DwD and am not all to satisfied with them. To me most of them seem to complicated or far fetched.


I can buy the warrging into Ghost for a time, which is part of most theories. A lot of people seem to think that his friends or brothers will store him in the ice-cells to preserve him, maybe due to a suggestion of the red woman and that she somehow resurrects him with her magic. Jon is a character many readers are identifying with. Therefore I doubt, that GRRM would bring him back as undead, because it makes identifying with the character so much harder.


Personally I think they would want to burn his body as soon as possible, so that he does not come back as a wight. I doubt there would be much opposition to such an action. However, under the assumption that R+L=J, he has targ blood in his veins and there will be some sort of magical rebirth in the fire. Like Dani after Drogos death and the birth of the dragons he will not be harmed by the fire and be alive again. Someone might have to die instead since only life pays for life in blood magic. But if his mind is in Ghost then he can warrg back into him once his body is restored through the fire or he will be pulled back into his body by default.


Has such an idea been discussed before? I could not find anything on it.


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That's an interesting idea, that he'll be burned but won't burn. I haven't necessarily seen foreshadowing for that, but I haven't gone looking for it either.

He won't be a zombie, or even a foggy, memory-faded Beric or Stoneheart wight, because his actual soul will remain intact in Ghost for a time, and as long as he is "put back" in his body soon enough, resurrected Jon will be fully Jon, perhaps merged with Ghost a bit and obviously transformed in some way or ways. But Beric and Stoneheart aren't souls, but rather shades. Ghosts with bodies. They fade away over time and seem obsessed with whateve was occupying then at the end of their lives - Beric with defending the small folk, while Cat is basically caught in her final moment of madness eternally (or until she is put out of her misery). Her killing will be a mercy... But anyway, Jon will be cool. He'll have his soul, so he'll be mostly the same-ish, given the transformative nature of his expected resurrection.

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Thought having Cat resurrect Jon, once she realises he isn't Neds, would be fitting. Free herself and give back to the person she has, somewhat inadvertently, treated quite badly. Ghost would have kept Jons mind somewhat intact. Big issue with this is the geographical proximity of the two isn't exactly close.


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In all honesty I don't think he's dead as of the last chapter we see him in, just pretty heavily wounded.



And even if he were, I'd doubt he'd be reborn in the fire. GRRM said that was basically a one-off event for Dany.


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I think his death will be followed by a civil war, as pro-anti-Jon, pro-anti-wildling factions fight it out. That means his body will likely end up in an ice cell, as there won't be time to burn it. lol this is a personal wish on my part, but I want some ice magic. Aemon says the cold preserves. Maybe it can resurrect, too.


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If he is dead I imagine there will be a resurrection, he is after all right by a priestess of a religion that has been show to magically resurrect people while at a wall made of ice mage being marched upon by ice demons/fairies/people who raise the dead.



If by fire:


Azor Ahai 2.0



If by ice:


Nights King 2.0





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I am not convinced that he is dead, until I read it I won't believe it. He never actually dies in the book


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Jon isn't dead. Wounded, not dead. As the book ends, he's in the process of summoning Ghost, warging into its body, fighting off his attackers and thus avoiding Caesar's fate. The notion that Jon is dead and needs resurrecting is, honestly, somewhat laughable, given the context of the story.

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Yes, the "funny things happening at funeral pyre" idea has been discussed before. I've never liked the idea of Melisandre having a too important role in an eventual resurrection of Jon, it places WAY too much importance on her and makes Jon basically hers. So I've thought about a "magical pyre" for years too, and I've seen variations over the idea around, without being able to find specific threads about it.



The only counter-argument is the "Targaryens aren't fireproof", but in my opinion that doesn't destroy the general idea of a quite special pyre. This might or might not happen. And Theon as a "Gollum" type character would fit very well into him as a sacrifice in the only-death-may-pay-for-life way. People have different ideas on how this would play out, though, and personlly I haven't read a particularly coherent theory on the matter.



Also, Jon might not need resurrecting, as he might not be dead. Two "good" things about him being dead(-ish) for a while, is of course the "now his watch has ended" part - in a resurrected state, he won't be bound by his vow anymore, even if there was a reasonable way to return to the Watch after having your brothers kill you. And also - way more importantly - all true heros must die. Harry Potter. Neo. Jesus. Aka The Messianic Archetype. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MessianicArchetype


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Jon isn't going to come back after being put into a pyre. Dany's incident was described by GRRM as a miracle. It's not something we're going to see again just because Jon is part Targaryen.

Is Dany allowed to have anything special just to herself? Jon's going to get Drogon, Jon's going to survive a pyre, etc....:bang:

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This may not entirely be related to the thread but, what if Jon Snow's body get's burned, and he rezzes with the targaryen look, "waking the dragon." Might be a little too corny though...


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That's an interesting idea, that he'll be burned but won't burn. I haven't necessarily seen foreshadowing for that, but I haven't gone looking for it either.

He won't be a zombie, or even a foggy, memory-faded Beric or Stoneheart wight, because his actual soul will remain intact in Ghost for a time, and as long as he is "put back" in his body soon enough, resurrected Jon will be fully Jon, perhaps merged with Ghost a bit and obviously transformed in some way or ways. But Beric and Stoneheart aren't souls, but rather shades. Ghosts with bodies. They fade away over time and seem obsessed with whateve was occupying then at the end of their lives - Beric with defending the small folk, while Cat is basically caught in her final moment of madness eternally (or until she is put out of her misery). Her killing will be a mercy... But anyway, Jon will be cool. He'll have his soul, so he'll be mostly the same-ish, given the transformative nature of his expected resurrection.

There has been a small amount of foreshadowing that burning will do the trick (probably with a sacrifice of some sort), not much, but off the top of my head

1. Everyone knows what happens when you don't burn a body now. This ensures that if Jon is dead, his body will be given to the fire. (little foreshadowing, general though it may be)

2. It worked for Daenerys, and if you believe that R+L=J is true, then it's logical to believe that with similar elements (blood sacrifice & red priestess) it could work for Jon too

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I'm certain that he'll live because of the prophecy. "The dragon must have three heads" or however it goes. As for how he'll live I strongly suspect that Melisandre will give him a 'Thoros'.


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I agree that the question of why they wouldn't burn his body right away has always bothered me in regards to Jon simply warging to Ghost then back to his body no matter how it is re-animated. But having just gave it more thought, it is possible that he wargs into Ghost, his body is put on the pyre, the flames are lit, then Mel sees something in them that causes her to have him removed and placed in an ice cell instead, his body re-animates as a Wight and that's when he wargs back in and takes over his body again.

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There will be a state of chaos at the wall.



The wildlings will probably go wild because Bowen Marsh and Co will try to have them killed and the Queens men will surely aid them in it, maybe Queen Selyse will help the wounded Jon Snow (I highly doubt it but still)


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I have an explanation but you are not going to like it.



First, some background:


  • GRRM says that when someone is resurrected they lose a part of themselves.
  • GRRM asked D&D who they thought Jon's mother was
  • Jon looks like Arya who looks like Lyanna
  • A major part of Jon's plot arc is that he despises his status as a bastard
  • Starks are known for their total dedication to duty.
  • Warging is part of the Jon story but warging into ghost doesn't seem to be enough

I don't like R+L=J because despite the handwavy arguments about being a bastard not making any difference or bigamy being OK for Targareans.



The alternative is R+E = J, i.e. Jon is Aegon switched at birth to protect him while Rhaegar attempted a coup against Aerys. The baby is entrusted to the safekeeping of members of the kingsguard and to Lyanna who was the knight of the laughing tree.



Jon looks like Lyanna because there is a part of Lyanna inside him. Lyanna died at either her own or Ned's hand while she was warged into Aegon/Jon to protect him knowing that any baby with Targarean features would be murdered by Robert. Ned arrives at the tower of joy to late to prevent this and takes the child home raising Jon as his own. He keeps Jon's true identity secret from everyone, including Cat because of his promise to Lyanna.



Unlike R+L = J, this theory fits and explains all the circumstances. It only requires one additional piece of magic.



It is important for Jon to die because that is the only way his watch can end. And his watch has to end before he can leave the NW, take wives, win crowns and hold lands. Whenever there is an oath of that sort it is a pretty good tell that someone is going to have to die to cancel it out.



So Jon dies, is put on the pyre and Mel resurrects the Aegon part of him. The part that was Lyanna is lost (or can warg into Ghost).


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