[Book Spoilers] Theon - I talk to the trees but they don't listen to me

[bloodsteel bitterraven]

*Book spoilers obviously, but then, the entire thread seems to be spoiling it so... seriously turn back if you haven't read them lol*

If Theon doesn't get that godswood scene I'll be really upset. Ignoring the whole "They sacrificed Sansa for the sake of giving Theon some character development!" complaint for a bit, it's his story I've been worried about all year. I want him to feel like a main character with his own scenes again, not the side character he currently appears to be. It's stressful to see the Unsullied Twitter Legions refer to him as such, when you consider how captivating his arc in ADWD was.

And, also, I've said this a lot before, but it will be a tragic disservice to both Alfie Allen and Ramin Djawadi if that scene doesn't make it in. With them working together, it has the potential to be one of the most emotional moments in the whole story.

I totally agree. That scene has to be in the show. He's the best character in ADwD, and he really needs to shine this season. Unsullied viewers don't care at all about Theon and I think that's the writers fault.

[ladyinblack]

Ser Barristan says hi.

LOL poor Selmy he wasn't given the righteous death he earned

[Stonehearted Snake]

HBO has been very clear they want the series to run as long as possible and have put the number 10 out there on a few occasions. But D&D adamantly do not want more than 7. Understandable I think, they want to work on other projects and this is way more work than most shows.

I agree that this shoving Sansa into Jeyne's role has done a disservice to both Sansa and Theon. I just don't see how one character's storyline doesn't become subjugated to the other. Maybe if they work on some revenge plot together rather than escape...?

[starklover]

HBO has been very clear they want the series to run as long as possible and have put the number 10 out there on a few occasions. But D&D adamantly do not want more than 7. Understandable I think, they want to work on other projects and this is way more work than most shows.

I agree that this shoving Sansa into Jeyne's role has done a disservice to both Sansa and Theon. I just don't see how one character's storyline doesn't become subjugated to the other. Maybe if they work on some revenge plot together rather than escape...?

I want them to revenge together that would be cool. If they escape where would they go? They might have to do 8 because the new book is not out yet. is winds of winter going to be the last book?

[Stonehearted Snake]

I want them to revenge together that would be cool. If they escape where would they go? They might have to do 8 because the new book is not out yet. is winds of winter going to be the last book?

No, theoretically the 7th and final book is A Dream of Spring though GRRM's editor has said it might go to 8. GRRM himself however did say a few times after that (as he started to get so many questions from people freaking out, I think) that it will be 7. I've only been in the fandom a couple years though so I can't even imagine how awful it was to get AFFC in 2005 and then to read that statement at the back saying that ADWD would be out the next year... and then wait another 6 years.

As for number of seasons, I've recently heard D&D relaxing on their firm opposition to more than 7. I'm guessing an extended two-part 7th is likely. It means they won't need to renegotiate contracts with the actors too - because they are all getting super famous and thus more expensive.

[starklover]

Yes most HBO series only run for 5-7 seasons (correct me if I am wrong).

Also from a practical standpoint, and this may not be one people want to hear, but book readers may be more patient with slower scenes--especially those written by good authors. That does not always make for good tv, and many people watch tv to be entertained. If you are a casual fan of the show, for example, the lack of action and suspense may be a turn off. I mean how much can they possible show about Cersei, Margery, and the HS before people are like (to take from Bronn) "oh fuck me" please give me another RW.

Also, unlike the books, I think the viewers-only crowd has been telegraphed to watch/love certain characters, and in a sense this was a problem some people had with DwD and FfC. So long sequences with no Jon, Dany, etc could just bore people to death. Margery is a terrible character in the book IMO, and even worst on screen. If they flesh that arc out anymore on screen, that would perhaps send a lot of viewers packing. I know plenty of readers, including myself, who were like WTF, where is Jon in FfC. Brienne is a swell character, I like her, but how well do you think the audience will receive essentially a lengthy a travelogue?

well true blood ran for 7 seasons and six feet under 6-7? Game of thrones is a lot more popular than those two shows and it make more money, so it could go on for longer seasons.

[JonisHenryTudor]

HBO has been very clear they want the series to run as long as possible and have put the number 10 out there on a few occasions. But D&D adamantly do not want more than 7. Understandable I think, they want to work on other projects and this is way more work than most shows.

I agree that this shoving Sansa into Jeyne's role has done a disservice to both Sansa and Theon. I just don't see how one character's storyline doesn't become subjugated to the other. Maybe if they work on some revenge plot together rather than escape...?

Interesting. 10 probably would have been a better number, 7 or 8 is much too short.

[jet199]

I know it's not always accurate but I don't see Brienne or Pod on the cast of last three episodes on IMDB. Maybe they do bite it this time? Would really suck. Her entire arc for all these seasons comes to naught. Maybe that's how they get Jamie to go North - revenge.

Or maybe IMDB doesn't know squat about future episodes!

Or maybe they do a YarAsha attempt rescue, fail, run away style thing.

[White Harbors Wrath]

Interesting. 10 probably would have been a better number, 7 or 8 is much too short.

If their writing continues like this season, it's much too long. Now that they're going off the path further they've proved largely incompetent of cohesive storytelling.

[Lord Damian]

I know it's not always accurate but I don't see Brienne or Pod on the cast of last three episodes on IMDB. Maybe they do bite it this time? Would really suck. Her entire arc for all these seasons comes to naught. Maybe that's how they get Jamie to go North - revenge.

Or maybe IMDB doesn't know squat about future episodes!

Maybe they get send to retrieve Rickon and Shaggy Dog.

[ni2tre]

I can't find the interview now but I believe Alfie Allen when asked about which scene he is looking forward to see in season 5, he said "the confession tree scene" or something like that. So I believe that scene is definitely in, it's just a matter if Theon hears Bran's voice in the scene because that would be really cool.

[The Onion Sleight]

I've said this often before (http://sworn-to-house-baratheon.tumblr.com/post/118516405793/i-just-re-read-the-adwd-chapters-the-turncloak), and people who know me will know that the two scenes with Theon at the heart tree in "ADWD, The Turncloak" and "ADWD, A Ghost in Winterfell" are my absolute favourites in the whole ASOIAF series; and the scene with his confession in front of the heart tree is the one I'm looking the most forward to this season!

I consider this, from "The Turncloak":

Snow was falling on the godswood too, melting when it touched the ground. Beneath the white-cloaked trees the earth had turned to mud. Tendrils of mist hung in the air like ghostly ribbons. Why did I come here? These are not my gods. This is not my place. The heart tree stood before him, a pale giant with a carved face and leaves like bloody hands.

A thin film of ice covered the surface of the pool beneath the weirwood. Theon sank to his knees beside it. "Please," he murmured through his broken teeth, "I never meant..." The words caught in his throat. "Save me," he finally managed. "Give me..." What? Strength? Courage? Mercy? Snow fell around him, pale and silent, keeping its own counsel. The only sound was a faint soft sobbing. Jeyne, he thought. It is her, sobbing in her bridal bed. Who else could it be? Gods do not weep. Or do they?

The sound was too pitiful to endure. Theon grabbed hold of a branch and pulled himself back to his feet, knocked the snow off his legs, and limped back toward the lights. There are ghosts in Winterfell, he thought, and I am one of them.

and that, from "A Ghost in Winterfell":

In the godswood the snow was still dissolving as it touched the earth. Steam rose off the hot pools, fragrant with the smell of moss and mud and decay. A warm fog hung in the air, turning the trees into sentinels, tall soldiers shrouded in cloaks of gloom. During daylight hours, the steamy wood was often full of northmen come to pray to the old gods, but at this hour Theon Greyjoy found he had it all to himself.

And in the heart of the wood the weirwood waited with its knowing red eyes. Theon stopped by the edge of the pool and bowed his head before its carved red face. Even here he could hear the drumming, boom DOOM boom DOOM boom DOOM boom DOOM. Like distant thunder, the sound seemed to come from everywhere at once.

The night was windless, the snow drifting straight down out of a cold black sky, yet the leaves of the heart tree were rustling his name. "Theon," they seemed to whisper, "Theon."

The old gods, he thought. They know me. They know my name. I was Theon of House Greyjoy. I was a ward of Eddard Stark, a friend and brother to his children. "Please." He fell to his knees. "A sword, thats all I ask. Let me die as Theon, not as Reek." Tears trickled down his cheeks, impossibly warm. "I was ironborn. A son... a son of Pyke, of the islands."

A leaf drifted down from above, brushed his brow, and landed in the pool. It floated on the water, red, five-fingered, like a bloody hand. "... Bran," the tree murmured.

They know. The gods know. They saw what I did. And for one strange moment it seemed as if it were Bran's face carved into the pale trunk of the weirwood, staring down at him with eyes red and wise and sad. Bran's ghost, he thought, but that was madness. Why should Bran want to haunt him? He had been fond of the boy, had never done him any harm. It was not Bran we killed. It was not Rickon. They were only miller' s sons, from the mill by the Acorn Water. "I had to have two heads, else they would have mocked me... laughed at me... they... "

A voice said, "Who are you talking to?"

Theon spun, terrified that Ramsay had found him, but it was just the washerwomen - Holly, Rowan, and one whose name he did not know.

"The ghosts," he blurted. "They whisper to me. They... they know my name."

not only to be the best writing GRRM has ever done, but also some of the best writing I've ever read. Very beautiful, sad, touching, poignant and very, very atmospheric and ghostly.

With Alfie Allen, the best actor of the show + the Show!Weirwood trees, which look great, IMO + the melancholic "Winterfell" theme, or a beautiful new one by Ramin Djawadi (+ hopefully better writing than in the last episode(s)) = it should make an incredible scene! :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :crying: :crying: :crying:

[Ser Quork]

I've said this often before (http://sworn-to-house-baratheon.tumblr.com/post/118516405793/i-just-re-read-the-adwd-chapters-the-turncloak), and people who know me will know that the two scenes with Theon at the heart tree in "ADWD, The Turncloak" and "ADWD, A Ghost in Winterfell" are my absolute favourites in the whole ASOIAF series; and the scene with his confession in front of the heart tree is the one I'm looking the most forward to this season!

I consider this, from "The Turncloak":

and that, from "A Ghost in Winterfell":

not only to be the best writing GRRM has ever done, but also some of the best writing I've ever read. Very beautiful, sad, touching, poignant and very, very atmospheric and ghostly.

With Alfie Allen, the best actor of the show + the Show!Weirwood trees, which look great, IMO + the melancholic "Winterfell" theme, or a beautiful new one by Ramin Djawadi (+ hopefully better writing than in the last episode(s)) = it should make an incredible scene! :bowdown: :crying:

I hope they do justice to this scene. As you said, it is some of GRRM's best writing - completely masterful.

[Stonehearted Snake]

I've said this often before (http://sworn-to-house-baratheon.tumblr.com/post/118516405793/i-just-re-read-the-adwd-chapters-the-turncloak), and people who know me will know that the two scenes with Theon at the heart tree in "ADWD, The Turncloak" and "ADWD, A Ghost in Winterfell" are my absolute favourites in the whole ASOIAF series; and the scene with his confession in front of the heart tree is the one I'm looking the most forward to this season!

I consider this, from "The Turncloak":

and that, from "A Ghost in Winterfell":

not only to be the best writing GRRM has ever done, but also some of the best writing I've ever read. Very beautiful, sad, touching, poignant and very, very atmospheric and ghostly.

With Alfie Allen, the best actor of the show + the Show!Weirwood trees, which look great, IMO + the melancholic "Winterfell" theme, or a beautiful new one by Ramin Djawadi (+ hopefully better writing than in the last episode(s)) = it should make an incredible scene! :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :crying: :crying: :crying:

Agreed. I just got the chills again re-reading those passages and thinking of Alfie doing them!

[dielsis]

well true blood ran for 7 seasons and six feet under 6-7? Game of thrones is a lot more popular than those two shows and it make more money, so it could go on for longer seasons.

Only five for Six Feet Under. I seem to recall that HBO wanted more and when Alan Ball came to them with the series finale there was a fight. He held out so if D&D truly want 7 they should stand their ground. Six Feet Under is my favorite of all TV shows but I know it was not as well-liked as Game of Thrones is, so D&D probably have a lot more clout in bargaining the length.

Agreed. I just got the chills again re-reading those passages and thinking of Alfie doing them!

Yup. Those Davos and Theon chapters in ADWD make it worth reading, along with Jon's last chapter and the Epilogue.

[starklover]

Only five for Six Feet Under. I seem to recall that HBO wanted more and when Alan Ball came to them with the series finale there was a fight. He held out so if D&D truly want 7 they should stand their ground. Six Feet Under is my favorite of all TV shows but I know it was not as well-liked as Game of Thrones is, so D&D probably have a lot more clout in bargaining the length.

Yup. Those Davos and Theon chapters in ADWD make it worth reading, along with Jon's last chapter and the Epilogue.

There was a fight about the series finale?

[420faceless]

So all the crap with avenging Renly, fulfilling her oaths, etc. just goes out the door? If anyone gets flayed this episode my guess is the old woman who talked to Sansa or the old man who talked to Brienne. For Brienne and Pod to die without really doing anything this season would be lame.

Agreed. There's no point of even having Brienne and Pod in the story still in any capacity to just get flayed.

Every character dies for a point or they're pointless, and D&D are NOT that bad to allow that to happen.

[jbob]

It's tricky thing. We're specifically told that Bran can't speak to anyone through the trees. No one can. Doing so would add major plot holes. So how to get across that Theon is hearing his name without making it sound like the tree is talking to him?

[Ser Quork]

It's tricky thing. We're specifically told that Bran can't speak to anyone through the trees. No one can. Doing so would add major plot holes. So how to get across that Theon is hearing his name without making it sound like the tree is talking to him?

Bloodraven does say that, and yet we see twice (with Ned and Theon) that Bran may be able to (although probably not enough to communicate effectively). I always thought that this was to hint that Bran may be a more powerful greenseer.

[The Rat Kook]

Bloodraven does say that, and yet we see twice (with Ned and Theon) that Bran may be able to (although probably not enough to communicate effectively). I always thought that this was to hint that Bran may be a more powerful greenseer.

I hope that's true. One in a thousand people born a warg, one in a thousand wargs born a greenseer, one in a thousand greenseers born a Bran.