[Book Spoilers] Rant and Rave without Repercussion V2

[Valetudo]

You're absolutely right. I completely forgot that the old lady totally must know how evil Ramsay is but she doesn't tell anything. Jesus how stupid is this show!

She can only talk in cryptic quotes, it is known.

Where would the DRAMA and SHOCK go if she told her that Ramsey is a psycho? Can't do that!

[Valetudo]

While I have no doubt that Cerse will send some kind of letter begging for Jaime's help and he will destroy ir, it's just going to make him look like a huge douchebag (again) for abandoning the woman he loves (but the plot point will be ticked off.)

OR alternatively, the reason Jaime can't help Cersei avoid the WoS is because he's Doran's prisoner when it happens. So he doesn't even make a choice to not help Cersei and it's his own damn fool plan that put him in that place. Either way, he is so different from Book Jaime's characterization at this point that his future actions (assuming they remotely align with the books again) won't make any sense.

I also think that Larry being Doran's prisoner is why he'll not help Carol. Poor Larry, unable to protect his daughter and now his sister/lover. Must be tough for him.

The"spoilers" from imdb had a pretty neat theory about that. It was that Myrcella still has her necklace, and Larry discovers that he has been used by Carol seeing it. That's why he turns against her.

Seems to be too elaborate of a plan for D&D though

[The Northern Scholar]

Let's keep it on topic.

Am I going crazy, or was Dany's marriage never brought up as an option at all this season?

Yeah, it came out of nowhere and doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Thanks for reopening this thread!

I was feeling bad posting in other threads, where our old friends show apologists are totally out of their minds.

Dany's marriage offer came out of the blue, even more than the Faith Taliban! At least they had the Evil!Lancel scene to introduce them.

Here, they could have used the Missandei/Dany scene to introduce the idea,but no. It's really much more EMPOWERING to make her say a BADASS line with a guy ON HIS KNEES! So SHOCKING!

She should have done it NAKED in the presence of one of her DRAGONS while SLITTING A MAN'S THROAT, and it would have been THE BEST SCENE EVAAAA!

Thank the Gods this thread has returned. I foolishly a ventured into the "not much has changed" thread and I left feeling like I have read and watched something different than the folks posting in that thread. The example about Tyrion's hitting all his geographic points but cutting all the key stuff in the middle was so spot on.

[LadySoftheart]

The"spoilers" from imdb had a pretty neat theory about that. It was that Myrcella still has her necklace, and Larry discovers that he has been used by Carol seeing it. That's why he turns against her.

.

Even if those spoilers are true, why not just have Jaime disillusioned by Cersei's actions and personality, you know? She could have just raged at him a few times about what an idiot he is or overruled him about rearming the Faith or whatever.

And if they didn't want to make Carol look bad, she could have SENT him to Dorne with Gregor's head to check on Myrcella because she was worried for her daughter's safety instead of having him decide on his harebrained illogical scheme. If he'd been (unwillingly) given Balon Swann's role it would have made a LITTLE sense out of his mission to Dorne and maybe I'd buy the streamlining argument a tiny bit.

At the moment, I'm convinced that the showrunners see Jaime as borderline intellectually disabled because he really makes the most ridiculous plans and decisions ever. Book!Jaime had a pretty shrewd head for strategy and once forced to use his wits rather than his sword, he was quite clever (far more so than Cersei because he was better at reading other people who weren't his siblings ;)) Show!Jaime wasn't even a good swordsman particularly and he is as dumb as he is pretty.

[Valetudo]

.

Even if those spoilers are true, why not just have Jaime disillusioned by Cersei's actions and personality, you know? She could have just raged at him a few times about what an idiot he is or overruled him about rearming the Faith or whatever.

And if they didn't want to make Carol look bad, she could have SENT him to Dorne with Gregor's head to check on Myrcella because she was worried for her daughter's safety instead of having him decide on his harebrained illogical scheme. If he'd been (unwillingly) given Balon Swann's role it would have made a LITTLE sense out of his mission to Dorne and maybe I'd buy the streamlining argument a tiny bit.

At the moment, I'm convinced that the showrunners see Jaime as borderline intellectually disabled because he really makes the most ridiculous plans and decisions ever. Book!Jaime had a pretty shrewd head for strategy and once forced to use his wits rather than his sword, he was quite clever (far more so than Cersei because he was better at reading other people who weren't his siblings ;)) Show!Jaime wasn't even a good swordsman particularly and he is as dumb as he is pretty.

The spoilers are not true (they said that Grey Worm died), and I would of course prefer any of your options.

But at least the imdb theory bring a little sense into Larry's story (compared to the poor imprisoned Larry), making him at least reach an emotional point instead of only plot and location points.

And looking at it, it totally fits the "shocking moment" mojo of D&D.

[Lord Damian]

I do have a feeling that the candle in the tower is a trap though. It is no coincedence that the old lady tells her about the tower, Sansa walks there and Myranda is just waiting for her. If Sansa escapes Winterfell, it will be her and Theon making a run for it. Probably during a battle or when much of the garrison leaves to possibly ambush Stannis.

[Julia Martell]

Yeah, I’m really glad the imdb spoilers are debunk because the Dorne stuff in there was just AWFUL. Like, even worse than it is so far, awful.

Like it amounted to: Sand Snakes attack and kill Bronn, Doran tells them to fucking stop, Jaime sees Myrcella and she’s like “Nah, I’ll stay here at least I have my necklace to remember my mother by”, Jaime asks Doran to let him take Myrcella and he’s like “nope, my son’s in love with and it’s not like I ever made a speech about how I would always put the needs of Dorne over hurting people’s feelings” and then Jaime goes home, but not before Ellaria threatens him again.

Like wow.... that would be useless.

[Chebyshov]

Even if those spoilers are true, why not just have Jaime disillusioned by Cersei's actions and personality, you know? She could have just raged at him a few times about what an idiot he is or overruled him about rearming the Faith or whatever.

And if they didn't want to make Carol look bad, she could have SENT him to Dorne with Gregor's head to check on Myrcella because she was worried for her daughter's safety instead of having him decide on his harebrained illogical scheme. If he'd been (unwillingly) given Balon Swann's role it would have made a LITTLE sense out of his mission to Dorne and maybe I'd buy the streamlining argument a tiny bit.

At the moment, I'm convinced that the showrunners see Jaime as borderline intellectually disabled because he really makes the most ridiculous plans and decisions ever. Book!Jaime had a pretty shrewd head for strategy and once forced to use his wits rather than his sword, he was quite clever (far more so than Cersei because he was better at reading other people who weren't his siblings ;)) Show!Jaime wasn't even a good swordsman particularly and he is as dumb as he is pretty.

Right, we know the spoilers aren't, but even if something like the necklace thing is what convinces Larry to burn Carol's letter it'd just be another character 180. He called her a "hateful woman" and raped her last year, and then ended the season being totally fine having sex in the White Tower. Then he started this year by being paranoid about the Lannister legacy and volunteering for an idiotic mission that even Bronn said was stupid, but he's going to end the year being like "oh no Carol is slightly manipulative so I won't fight for her!" They're really painting him in a bad light to prop the others up.

I do have a feeling that the candle in the tower is a trap though. It is no coincedence that the old lady tells her about the tower, Sansa walks there and Myranda is just waiting for her. If Sansa escapes Winterfell, it will be her and Theon making a run for it. Probably during a battle or when much of the garrison leaves to possibly ambush Stannis.

I agree that Theon will be the one who ends up saving her, but I don't think it's a trap. I don't think D&D are clever enough for that, plus I also fail to see what that would do (not that logic should really be applied). Right now the most "shocking" twist would be Myranda betrays Ramsay.

[naseridrl]

I wish they'd beef up Missandei's role a bit. She has become very much like pretty wallpaper these days. She doesn't give advice, she doesn't seem like the prodigy she is in the books. She just seems like a PA. Why couldn't she have been the one to mention the possibility of a marriage or something? then it wouldn't have come out of the blue.

Instead we get the romance stuff. I'm also one of the few people who don't mind the romance and actually liked the unsullied going to the prostitute (I didn't like that scene and the gratuitous nudity though), I like that the fact they show that just because people lack the genitalia doesn't mean they don't crave intimacy and affection. It just annoys me that it seems Missandei's romance with Grey Worm has become the reason she gets her screen time instead of her being a hugely important member of the Dany advisory team.

[Dolorous Gabe]

Yeah the Dorne imdb spoiler thing suggested they were basically using Dorne as a vehicle for Jaime finally seeing through Cersei's, sorry Carol's lies. However bad Dorne is going to be, it would be beyond dreadful to reduce Dorne to that.

[Valetudo]

I do have a feeling that the candle in the tower is a trap though. It is no coincedence that the old lady tells her about the tower, Sansa walks there and Myranda is just waiting for her. If Sansa escapes Winterfell, it will be her and Theon making a run for it. Probably during a battle or when much of the garrison leaves to possibly ambush Stannis.

Trap or no trap, it doesn't make any sense.

[Julia Martell]

I do have a feeling that the candle in the tower is a trap though. It is no coincedence that the old lady tells her about the tower, Sansa walks there and Myranda is just waiting for her. If Sansa escapes Winterfell, it will be her and Theon making a run for it. Probably during a battle or when much of the garrison leaves to possibly ambush Stannis.

See, you’re doing that think were you’re trying to give D&D credit and in doing so, coming up with a story far more interesting then that are capable of doing. It’s a common defence mechanism around here (see Talisa Honeypot). Put yeah, fight it, it only leads to pain.

Messandei is also horrible. Like, that scene where she was kissing Dany’s ass for a full minute was just awful. Like, is that how people involved in the production talk to D&D? (George Lucas Effect, anyone?)

[abandonship]

Trap or no trap, it doesn't make any sense.

I agree, I'm pretty sure everyone knows how crazy and scary Ramsay is, yet no one seems to want to tell Sansa. Its all the North Remembers and Candles. Sure she got a glimpse of the kind of person he is, but that isn't even in his final form. It seems a little unfair to let her go in blind.

[7th-key]

I wish they'd beef up Missandei's role a bit. She has become very much like pretty wallpaper these days. She doesn't give advice, she doesn't seem like the prodigy she is in the books. She just seems like a PA. Why couldn't she have been the one to mention the possibility of a marriage or something? then it wouldn't have come out of the blue.

A young female counsellor, knowledgeable of local customs? Naaaw, it has to be about a guy.

[naseridrl]

I'm oddly excited to see Trystane next episode. Dorne has been so bad so far I'm wondering if he'll make the full set or if he'll be the one interesting spot. Is he using Myrcella? is she using him? Do they love each other and want a quiet life a Prince and Consort of Dorne? Do they want to be Queen and Consort? I know it'll probably turn out to be as disappointing as the rest of Dorne but he is the one part of Dorne we don't really know quite what his character will truly be yet.

I am secretly hoping though he's there to simply add to Myrcella's storyline though. Unlikely given the way this show does women's storylines and all the ''empowered'' stuff but so far most of Dorne has been a lot about Myrcella as much as its been about revenge. At least in terms of what been said on screen.

[Julia Martell]

I'm oddly excited to see Trystane next episode. Dorne has been so bad so far I'm wondering if he'll make the full set or if he'll be the one interesting spot. Is he using Myrcella? is she using him? Do they love each other and want a quiet life a Prince and Consort of Dorne? Do they want to be Queen and Consort? I know it'll probably turn out to be as disappointing as the rest of Dorne but he is the one part of Dorne we don't really know quite what his character will truly be yet.

I am secretly hoping though he's there to simply add to Myrcella's storyline though. Unlikely given the way this show does women's storylines and all the ''empowered'' stuff but so far most of Dorne has been a lot about Myrcella as much as its been about revenge. At least in terms of what been said on screen.

You’re doing the Honeypot thing now too.... Yeah as far as I can tell from interviews, they are actually in luv. But I also don’t see how they’ll have time for any QM action, although there was a line in episode 2 that made me think it was in. (are they “saving it” for season 6? God.)

I’ve head canoned Tryscella into being the cutest thing ever and actually making them be, like, “romantic” ruins everything! It’s suppose to be like Little Rascals, damn it!

[Valetudo]

I'm oddly excited to see Trystane next episode. Dorne has been so bad so far I'm wondering if he'll make the full set or if he'll be the one interesting spot. Is he using Myrcella? is she using him? Do they love each other and want a quiet life a Prince and Consort of Dorne? Do they want to be Queen and Consort? I know it'll probably turn out to be as disappointing as the rest of Dorne but he is the one part of Dorne we don't really know quite what his character will truly be yet.

I am secretly hoping though he's there to simply add to Myrcella's storyline though. Unlikely given the way this show does women's storylines and all the ''empowered'' stuff but so far most of Dorne has been a lot about Myrcella as much as its been about revenge. At least in terms of what been said on screen.

I'm excited to hear his fake Spanish accent! :bang: :bang: :bang:

[Le Cygne]

Where would the DRAMA and SHOCK go if she told her that Ramsey is a psycho? Can't do that!

The show is not shock and awe, it's shock and stupid.

Show!Jaime wasn't even a good swordsman particularly and he is as dumb as he is pretty.

That's all they think of him, he's the sterotypical dumb blonde. And as Benioff reminds us when he has him do horribly out of character things, he's not a good guy.

I agree that Theon will be the one who ends up saving her, but I don't think it's a trap. I don't think D&D are clever enough for that, plus I also fail to see what that would do (not that logic should really be applied). Right now the most "shocking" twist would be Myranda betrays Ramsay.

Agreed, the next episode, the synopsis reads, Brienne waits for a sign. I think the twist will be Sansa is empowered after the worst happens, because that would make so much sense.

It just annoys me that it seems Missandei's romance with Grey Worm has become the reason she gets her screen time instead of her being a hugely important member of the Dany advisory team.

It just annoys me that better romances the author wrote aren't getting the screen time. They don't get romance at all. They don't get much of anything at all.

[naseridrl]

You’re doing the Honeypot thing now too.... Yeah as far as I can tell from interviews, they are actually in luv. But I also don’t see how they’ll have time for any QM action, although there was a line in episode 2 that made me think it was in. (are they “saving it” for season 6? God.)

I’ve head canoned Tryscella into being the cutest thing ever and actually making them be, like, “romantic” ruins everything! It’s suppose to be like Little Rascals, damn it!

Yeah, it'll be very very weird seeing them aged up They need to be more Alfalfa and Darla.

I guess I'm intrigued by them purely because we've had to wait so long. It's half way in now I would have thought we'd have at least seen their dynamic even if it was only a few minutes in one episode. It seems like they're just being tacked on as an afterthought.

What is the Honeypot thing?

[Le Cygne]

Excellent article:

Again, I’m less concerned that we will fetishize violence than we will ignore it. I believe that if people actually witnessed the actual pain of women and girls—instead of entertaining, sanitized, depictions—we would rise up to effect change.

A single show with a woman who is the victim of violence for “entertainment” isn’t the problem. However, with show after show employing victimization of women as a plot device it just doesn’t reflect the wide range of actual women’s experience. Instead, it reinforces the narrative of woman as victim in real life. It reinforces that women are to be abused and avenged.

http://www.salon.com/2015/04/14/dead_women_killer_ratings_game_of_thrones_true_detective_and_tvs_epidemic_of_violence_against_women_partner/