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Cercei's plot is severely lacking(Spoilers)


vicktoryrising

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I don't think it's a matter of it being slow. I feel what's missing is the full scope of Cersei's mistakes and general assholery.

In the show they focused mostly on the Faith uprising, which is fine because that's arguably her biggest mistake, but I'm gonna miss the one-two punch of Aurane stealing the ships, Bronn killing half of the Stokeworths, etc.

So what's great about Cersei's downfall is how everything just keeps piling on until hit shits the fan, and every single one of her blunders come back to bite her in the ass

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When the Queen of Thorns comes back to King's Landing she'll take care of Cercei. When Tywin threatened her with revealing Loras' sexuality before the weddings, she threw his children's incest right back at him. Expect the same thing to happen, but with the High Sparrow in the middle this time.

I'm not sure. There's witnesses who will testify against Loras plus I'm sure his lover could be coerced. Even if everyone "knows" about Jaime and Cersei, proving it is another story.

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I think it might seem 'slow' because Cersei shares screen time with other people (Marg) in KL, and her mistakes aren't as plentiful, or biting her on the ass as quickly.

On the other hand, people see it as rushed because the faith militant get aggressive so seriously. In the books, part of the fun of this particular mistake, is the how the reader starts to realize what a huge problem it is, while Cersei sits back and thinks she's a genius.

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Correct. I brought up 4 plotlines she has been involved with already this season, and then all of a sudden you give up.



The writing for Cersei has been fantastic this season. She is a poor ruler who is making horrible decisions. The show is doing a great job. Perhaps it is not a direct duplicate of the books. Cersei never has been. The show Cersei has always been better then in the books. Lena is to praise for that.







So you read 10% of my post and understood none of it. That plus the self-important name... Benioff, is that you?


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Show Cersei works for me. She isn't the idiot of the books. We don't see her ruling poorly because she isn't ruling poorly. We don't see a huge debt crisis because there isn't one. We don't see her screwing things up with the Kettlebacks because she isn't really screwing things up.



She understands there is a power struggle with the Tyrells - there is no need for a coin for that - and that Margery wants to remove her. So she takes the reigns of the Kingdom in an unofficial capacity so she doesn't antagonize the misogynist mindset of Westeros, she sends away her major contender in the Small Council (Mace Tyrell) and arranges the downfall of the Tyrells while keeping her hands clean: "Relase Loras? I don't have Loras" "Make them release them? You're the King, not me. You do it"



Things are going to blow up in her face, but she's definitely a smarter character than in the books and her story seems more enticing than in the books because of that. In the books Cersei POVs are pretty much a joke: read them to laugh from Cersei' screws up. In the show, she's far more serious.


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Show Cersei works for me. She isn't the idiot of the books. We don't see her ruling poorly because she isn't ruling poorly. We don't see a huge debt crisis because there isn't one. We don't see her screwing things up with the Kettlebacks because she isn't really screwing things up.

She understands there is a power struggle with the Tyrells - there is no need for a coin for that - and that Margery wants to remove her.

At this point I can assume you have not been following the show at all?

Did you see the Ironbank bankrolling Stannis? Did you hear about how the Ironbank operates? Did you hear how much the crown are indebted to the Ironbank? Did you hear that the Lannister are without any coin?

Cersei character is not continuous, her reasoning has changed to the point that when it backfires it turns her into a bigger idiot than Moonboy, because she should have seen it coming a mile off.

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Show Cersei works for me. She isn't the idiot of the books. We don't see her ruling poorly because she isn't ruling poorly. We don't see a huge debt crisis because there isn't one. We don't see her screwing things up with the Kettlebacks because she isn't really screwing things up.

She understands there is a power struggle with the Tyrells - there is no need for a coin for that - and that Margery wants to remove her. So she takes the reigns of the Kingdom in an unofficial capacity so she doesn't antagonize the misogynist mindset of Westeros, she sends away her major contender in the Small Council (Mace Tyrell) and arranges the downfall of the Tyrells while keeping her hands clean: "Relase Loras? I don't have Loras" "Make them release them? You're the King, not me. You do it"

Things are going to blow up in her face, but she's definitely a smarter character than in the books and her story seems more enticing than in the books because of that. In the books Cersei POVs are pretty much a joke: read them to laugh from Cersei' screws up. In the show, she's far more serious.

I guess I don't get the purpose of the nicer, smarter Cersei. If she's going to have the same downfall, why make her sympathetic? Her walk of shame as far as I can tell is going to come off in the show as entirely sympathetic and due to religious extremism, the context being completely different from the book where she gets caught in the trap she sets for Marg. In the show she will just be a victim of the patriarchy, LOL.

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I guess I don't get the purpose of the nicer, smarter Cersei. If she's going to have the same downfall, why make her sympathetic?

Why not? She's a human being, not a caricature of one, like book Cersei (gods, how I absolutely abhorred those chapters). Also, no, her fall will be partly self-induced - she's the one who has armed the Faith (while she could have, I dunno, poisoned Margaery or something).

Also, on the 'slowness' bit... after five episodes, only four of which have starred her, we're now roughly at the level of Cersei IX from the books. If you're complaining about the pace, think about how slow it would be if we got the book version.

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Why not? She's a human being, not a caricature of one, like book Cersei (gods, how I absolutely abhorred those chapters). Also, no, her fall will be partly self-induced - she's the one who has armed the Faith (while she could have, I dunno, poisoned Margaery or something).

Also, on the 'slowness' bit... after five episodes, only four of which have starred her, we're now roughly at the level of Cersei IX from the books. If you're complaining about the pace, think about how slow it would be if we got the book version

I am sorry an actor is a human. Their act often less than most of the time. She is a caicature because she is playing a part, that is quite unlike herself.

The rest of what has been said need no comment, unless of course you are a scriptwriter and producer?

She had a Kettleback back in seaosn 3 spying on Marg before Joff's marriage for the sake of continuity

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Slow may be the wrong word, it lacks momentum or any recognizable focus. I keep saying 'stuff happens' it all feels unrelated.



Perhaps the show should have stuck to one single plotline such as Cersei's desire to get rid of Marg and made it more clear how these machinations, especially the Faith are designed in her mind to achieve this goal.

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I guess I don't get the purpose of the nicer, smarter Cersei. If she's going to have the same downfall, why make her sympathetic? Her walk of shame as far as I can tell is going to come off in the show as entirely sympathetic and due to religious extremism, the context being completely different from the book where she gets caught in the trap she sets for Marg. In the show she will just be a victim of the patriarchy, LOL.

Based on what we've seen so far, she's most definitely going to be caught in the trap she is setting for Marg. She's already been seen talking to the HS about the problem at court and every viewer understands she's talking about Marg. As for being a victim of the patriarchy, yes! That's what she is on the show and in the books. Finally, regarding feeling sympathetic, I think the point Martin was trying was precisely that. That we start out wanting her punished but wind up being very sympathetic for her. I even think there was a SSM about it but can't remember for sure. I think the show's on track with the Walk but I agree, she is more sympathetic on the show than in the books.

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I guess I don't get the purpose of the nicer, smarter Cersei. If she's going to have the same downfall, why make her sympathetic? Her walk of shame as far as I can tell is going to come off in the show as entirely sympathetic and due to religious extremism, the context being completely different from the book where she gets caught in the trap she sets for Marg. In the show she will just be a victim of the patriarchy, LOL.

I am sorry but this is just ridiculous. Let's take a look and what the good show only folks were saying after episode 4 over on PTV:

Exactly! And how long till he spills the beans on Cersei and the bastard king? I think this whole plan is going to blow up in Cersei's face. Plus, I'm disappointed in the High Sparrow, I thought he was more down to earth about helping the poor and letting the gods do the judging. Now he's gone all Melissandre and starts imprisoning people for every little transgression? Spilling all that wine, really?? the freaking WINE?!! Well, he really hasn't gone all Mel till he starts burning people alive, but he's this close.

Cersei is winning this round, but that was a lot of mayhem to let loose just to get at Loras. Can she get the sparrow-genie back in the bottle? If they hear the rumors about her, she's pooched. If even Bronn knows, then surely everyone else does, too.

And yes, Cersei's grand plan is just going to end with her children being killed.

Cersei enlists the High Sparrow and Co. to do her dirty work against the Tyrells. But she doesn't consider what happens when you don't pay Braavos what it is owed, or (as someone else pointed out) how to put the Sparrows back in their cage. Especially 'cuz they're not very tolerant of sexual deviation (ahem). Kudos to those who spun this spitball.

To those spitballing about Cersei's inquisition backfiring on her, did I hear this clearly when Tommen was stopped on the steps to the High Sparrow, a few people in the crowd below started yelling at him "perversion", and other stuff like that? If so, then that is the beginning of Tommen's end because as the product of incest he will likely be killed because they will think he s a monster of sorts, and there is no way Cersei can get out of that either so...

I'm concerned with Cersei's goal if she really, truly has one. She planned to get Mace Tyrell out of KL before this all happened. It's obvious that she didn't want his influence on Loras' imprisonment. But, really? Cersei thinks it's a good idea to have religious fanatics exacting courtless judgement on "sinners" in the middle of the streets? Are you an imbecile? Apparently wine drinking and non-marital sex are illegal and punishable by death now... just flipping great. She shouldn't be thinking that she's immune from their judgement because she animated them. Monsters turn on their masters all the damn time.

So since Cersei probably participated in bringing about Joffrey's demise (she certainly didn't try to stop him before he was out of control) , she seems poised to get Tommen killed because she unleashed a monster she can't control (I mean, the crowd hissing at Tommen, who never looked more like a little kid than he did when he looked behind him and realized what they were saying) ...and then she specifically sent Jaime to Dorne to fetch Myrcella. Cersei appears to be cursed, but it is also partially that she does dumb things and brings about a lot of her own misery.

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Show Cersei works for me. She isn't the idiot of the books. We don't see her ruling poorly because she isn't ruling poorly. We don't see a huge debt crisis because there isn't one. We don't see her screwing things up with the Kettlebacks because she isn't really screwing things up.

They mentioned the Iron Bank wanting it's money plus for seasons theyve been saying that between Robert, the war and probably Littlefinger's machinations that they are in serious debt. In the books she rearmed the faith for debt forgiveness and to look more pious than Stannis who worships the red God at least officially. On the show she did it just to bully a gay man because his sister is catty and mean. Book Cersei definitely came off as smarter especially since she was in the middle of losing her mind while making that decision.

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Based on what we've seen so far, she's most definitely going to be caught in the trap she is setting for Marg. She's already been seen talking to the HS about the problem at court and every viewer understands she's talking about Marg. As for being a victim of the patriarchy, yes! That's what she is on the show and in the books. Finally, regarding feeling sympathetic, I think the point Martin was trying was precisely that. That we start out wanting her punished but wind up being very sympathetic for her. I even think there was a SSM about it but can't remember for sure. I think the show's on track with the Walk but I agree, she is more sympathetic on the show than in the books.

I don't see what trap she is setting for Marg. You think they're going to have a trial for Loras AND Marg AND Cersei in the show? Thus, I don't get the purpose of the Loras story, since she's running the country, all she has to do if she wants to get rid of him is send him somewhere. Going through all of this so she can get rid of Loras in case he would protect his sister, is this the point? His sister's house still has a gazillion bannermen who can do the job also....so, I don't get it.

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I don't see what trap she is setting for Marg. You think they're going to have a trial for Loras AND Marg AND Cersei in the show? Thus, I don't get the purpose of the Loras story, since she's running the country, all she has to do if she wants to get rid of him is send him somewhere. Going through all of this so she can get rid of Loras in case he would protect his sister, is this the point? His sister's house still has a gazillion bannermen who can do the job also....so, I don't get it.

No, I think they're going to have a trial for Loras. And Cersei. That is how she'll get caught in her own trap, just like in the book. The difference is that it looks like Loras will go down instead of Mart. But I think what you don't get is why the show is changing things. My thoughts are the show is trying to avoid the doubles of the books. Marg is locked up then Cersei. Both on trial for adultery. Cersei walks to get out and postpones her trial. The show appears to be trying to have a difference so Loras is locked up for his "immoral" behavior. Marg will probably go down next season but there is something to be said for not having the same thing happen over and over again to multiple characters as it does in the books.

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No, I think they're going to have a trial for Loras. And Cersei. That is how she'll get caught in her own trap, just like in the book. The difference is that it looks like Loras will go down instead of Mart. But I think what you don't get is why the show is changing things. My thoughts are the show is trying to avoid the doubles of the books. Marg is locked up then Cersei. Both on trial for adultery. Cersei walks to get out and postpones her trial. The show appears to be trying to have a difference so Loras is locked up for his "immoral" behavior. Marg will probably go down next season but there is something to be said for not having the same thing happen over and over again to multiple characters as it does in the books.

Why is she trying to get rid of Loras? It makes no sense. In this particular instance the two trials are a pretty good plot device because it's one woman setting up another and herself getting accused of the same crime. Getting your brother in law imprisoned for being gay, I don't get how that helps her get rid of Marg. It feels really inauthentic and forced to me, the same way the Winterfell story does, the characters are doing things that in the context of their world do not make sense based on their stated goals.

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I am sorry an actor is a human. Their act often less than most of the time. She is a caicature because she is playing a part, that is quite unlike herself.

The rest of what has been said need no comment, unless of course you are a scriptwriter and producer?

She had a Kettleback back in seaosn 3 spying on Marg before Joff's marriage for the sake of continuity

When exactly was this Kettleblack spying on Margaery?
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