[Poll] How would you rate episode 506

[ummester]

Why does emotional motivation require counterbalancing?

Coz emotions are silly, especially on the interwebs, this technical reflection of humanity :D

[bent branch]

Why does emotional motivation require counterbalancing?

Yeah, and I have no doubt that their vote is also based on an emotion. Just not the same one that the ones who are voting 1 are experiencing.

I myself voted 5. My personal scale is how much I am enjoying it compared to other things I'm watching. And I'd say it is about average. So far this season I think I voted the first two 7's, the second two 6's, and now these last two episodes 5's. It's not trash, but it is extremely high priced mediocre. This week I enjoyed Penny Dreadful and Orphan Black more than GOT. And I enjoyed Outlander and Grimm just as much. So, it seems like it rates about a five.

And yes, this is subjective. If anyone thinks they are voting objectively then they are kidding themselves.

[ummester]

Ok I just watched it again. I still really liked it, but I can understand why a lot of people are pissed about the Sansa rape scene.

I watched it a second time and appreciated the cinematic artistry in Sansa's scene even more. And the acting in Winterfell was good, by all involved - even Myranda who is playing a jealous bitch caricature, did so convincingly enough.

I didn't have as many issue with the Dornish the second time, either. The fight scene was still poorly choreographed and all of those kids (Gravelserpents, Marshmella and Twistedbane)are pretty shit actors, that lack any kind of convincing on screen presence. But, there was an underlying logic beneath the disjointedness.

The Siliconpythons knew Jamie and Bronn were trying to get princess peach because of that boat dude they needlessly killed a few episodes ago, so, they were waiting for Jamie to act before they attacked. Doran and Hotah knew this was their plan, so they were waiting for the attack to launch their own attack/capture. Doran, true to character, wants to have a little chat with all of them about how silly they are being.

It's just these new child actors kind of suck. I think the GoTs casting person needs a stern talking to :D

But I'd still give it an 8.

Edited May 19, 2015 by ummester

[jerzy59]

Voted 2 for the idiocy around Loras and Littlefinger.

[kn1tt3r]

Why does emotional motivation require counterbalancing?

It probably doesn't, but I tend to have a bad feeling about votings dominated by rage induced decisions.

[Ser Desmond Wine's Bane]

It probably doesn't, but I tend to have a bad feeling about votings dominated by rage induced decisions.

Well that would be a valid justification for giving a score on a poll 'Rating of other people's opinions' rather than 'Rate the episode'.

[Gargarax]

I gave it a 4/10.

It got those 4 points for the first scene between Tyrion and Jorah, which was better than all of Tyrion's scenes so far this season, and Arya's scenes, which at least managed to create an atmosphere worthy of the times this series was still good. I don't know why the Mines of Moria are below the House of Black and White, but they sure made us of it to store their faces. It was okay, but this is so much better. Just because something is big, it's not impressive.

Dorne was truly abysmal - some of the worst writing and directing in the series and the history of HBO. The KL plot didn't make any sense and was ridiculous beyond description. I won't be able to take this seriously anymore. Sansa's wedding scene was disturbing, even more so because there was absolutely no narrative reason for this scene - they wanted to do it and made hilarious changes to the plot just to be able to do it.

I will finish watching this season, but out of curiosity how they will ruin the last remaining events we know from the books. I will watch it to make me want to read the books again this summer even more. I will watch it to rant - hoping that the 'Rave and Rant' thread won't be closed again because of trolls.

[Gargarax]

I guess you really need to reread Danny's wedding chapter if you remember her crying in agony.

If you're talking about her wedding on the show, just look at this thread from this forum http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/49152-book-tv-spoilers-dany-and-drogos-relationship/

You'll see that, unlike you're trying to say, a lot of people weren't happy of how that scene was filmed.

Of course, the outrage was not the same as in this week episode, but you have to remember that this scene is from the first episode of the first season, so the fan base was a lot smaller.

Thanks for pointing that out. That scene in AGOT is brilliant.

[Gargarax]

Wow, the ratings are quite harsh !

I wonder how many people went there rating the episode on their initial hot-headed reaction ?

The episode does not deserve so much "1/10", really... I gave it an 8, for one.

I don't quite understand reactions like this one. Most people who explain why they give it 8/10 mention several things they thought were bad - that isn't how rating works either. 1/10 may be harsh (it was a 4/10) for me, but there have been better reasons given for the low ratings here than for the high ratings.

[Tall Tyrion Lannister!]

This is true. It's probably a good time to remind people that Dany was crying in agony when she was deflowered in the first book, and that was also coerced consent.

There are many reasons to take issue with the conclusion, but the mere fact that it was rape probably isn't one of them.

Dany wasn't crying in agony on her wedding night. i think you're remembering the times afterward where Drogo was really rough with her after she'd been riding all day long.

[Johnsmith]

If man forgets to buy a sewing machine on the wedding night, mankind would cease

[Arya442]

All this bitching about the Sansa scene is uncalled for. It really wasn't that bad. It wasn't for shock value. There is no way they'd have time to do Henry the Heir and fArya in the TV show, and it appears both roles were somewhat critical. It is not about Sansa being used as a plot device for Theon. There are also the Bolton's that need a Stark in Winterfell. It is a smart adaption straight out of source material in the books that streamlines, and ties the Winterfell/Vale story-lines together nicely, and makes absolute sense. The scenes in Winterfell were masterfully done. The wedding was beautiful. Sophie Turner, Iwan Rheon, and Alfie Allen's acting all superb. For the love of GRRM's universe, do yourself a favor and step off the "D&D are sexist pervs" bandwagon that's been built here. Put your pitchforks away.

What's funny to me is that almost everyone here who voted 1/10 was probably prepared to do so before they ever seen the episode.

Yes it was for shock value. And it shows just how lazy/uncreative the writers have become. They really couldn't think of ANY other way to develop Sansa character without having her going through that. One of the laziest and most overused clichés in fiction, and they KEEP doing it. WOW, I clearly gave them far too much credit going into this season. I won't make that mistake again.

Edited May 19, 2015 by Arya442

[Arya442]

The episode was godawful. The Dorne or Winterfell crap alone would have been enough to really dragged it down. But together, oh boy.

[Gargarax]

Just like Jaime and Cersei.

I think this is how it goes in the writers' room at GOT headquarters:

D1: "This female character is in serious need of some character development."

D2: "Rape."

D1: "I was thinking the same thing."

D2: "This is groundbreaking stuff we're doing here."

Random Writer 1: "But what about the released WOW chapter, it implies that the character development goes in a different direction than rape."

D&D: "But rape is more compelling. Forget the lack of nuance, especially since Sansa will not get the necessary counselling in this setting, forget all logic and just focus on the shock value, rape is definitely more compelling."

RW1: "But..."

D&D: "We killed Barristan because that guy spoke up, man, we can fire you whenever we want, and brag about it at the next Con or Roundtable. Remember that."

:agree: By the way, look at Ian McElhinneys Twitter Account.

[Ajax Rules]

Oh, this should have been poster here.

Best episode of the (disappointing) season 8/10.

I liked a lot of things. LF’s plan seemed to make a little bit more sense than it did a few weeks ago. It seemed to make more sense why Cersei armed the sparrows without wanting money in return.The Arya scenes were beautiful.

The sandsnakes scene was bad. Everyone agrees. Enough said about it.

The scene with Sansa, Miranda, Theon and Ramsay was perfect (forgetting about the stupid fact that she should never have agreed to going to Winterfell so easily in the first place). But given that she was there, it was handled very nicely.

But I didn’t like the ‘tasteful’ handling of her sex scene. Come one, we had so many random, pointless tits and sex scenes with people we don’t care about! For naked women, we don’t need GoT. There’s so many excellent websites. But now, we have a girl we actually care about, are intrigued about. We saw her grow up. We heel for her. Now we DO want to see her tits. Now we DO want to see her have sex. But of all cases, THIS case is handled ‘tastefully’. Couldn’t D&D have skipped all the pointless brothel (or boat sex) scenes and replaced them with one, long, graphic, functional Sansa sex scene? I honestly don’t understand it.

The viewers are also to blame. We saw endless discussions about lines like “Fetch me a block” and “Ït was Cat”. But we hear nobody complain about a much more relevant sentence that was deleted: “Reek, make her wet for me”. Why wasn’t this brutal and insightful sentence included?

And to say one last thing: I think it is very strange that hundreds of posters speak of ‘rape’. Come on, if you stupidly go along with LF’s plan, then to accept Ramsay’s proposal, then to go with him to your bedroom….. You expect a man (a medieval man) NOT to have sex on his wedding night? No, calling this rape is almost as stupid as some of D&D’s writing.

[Gargarax]

But I didn’t like the ‘tasteful’ handling of her sex scene. Come one, we had so many random, pointless tits and sex scenes with people we don’t care about! For naked women, we don’t need GoT. There’s so many excellent websites. But now, we have a girl we actually care about, are intrigued about. We saw her grow up. We heel for her. Now we DO want to see her tits. Now we DO want to see her have sex. But of all cases, THIS case is handled ‘tastefully’. Couldn’t D&D have skipped all the pointless brothel (or boat sex) scenes and replaced them with one, long, graphic, functional Sansa sex scene? I honestly don’t understand it.

The viewers are also to blame. We saw endless discussions about lines like “Fetch me a block” and “Ït was Cat”. But we hear nobody complain about a much more relevant sentence that was deleted: “Reek, make her wet for me”. Why wasn’t this brutal and insightful sentence included?

And to say one last thing: I think it is very strange that hundreds of posters speak of ‘rape’. Come on, if you stupidly go along with LF’s plan, then to accept Ramsay’s proposal, then to go with him to your bedroom….. You expect a man (a medieval man) NOT to have sex on his wedding night? No, calling this rape is almost as stupid as some of D&D’s writing.

1. No, I really, really didn't want to see that. Many people didn't. Speak for yourself, but don't use the 'we'. This scene was unnecessary because it has no plot relevance - there are so many good essays and articles out there that explain why the scene was a problem. It was not problematic just because it's rape. Rape/sex/nudity with no plot relevance is plain and simply stupid and unworthy of an adult drama series.

2. This was not a relevant sentence - at least it wasn't remotely as relevant as the others mentioned. The other lines stood out in the book because they captured something important and defining about the characters who said them. This sentence was a random one that didn't really say anything new about Ramsay.

3. By today's standards, it definitely is rape. She obviously didn't want to do it - hence her reference to Tyrion being kind to her. Yes, she knew there would be a wedding night, but agreeing to the wedding didn't make any sense in the first place (for reasons mentioned hundreds of times in this forum), it's just really bad writing. And just because this was "the medieval" way I don't have to find this okay. I define rape by today's definition of the word - and this definition applies here. I'm not saying you have to see this as rape, but don't tell me I'm stupid for having rather good reasons to think of this as rape.

There is practically nobody in this thread complaining about people rating to high. There are several people complaing about people rating low. Why? What do you get out of a high ratings statistics? Why do you think your evaluation of the show is more accurate than ours? It's rather pathetic ...

Edited May 19, 2015 by Gargarax

[Ser Desmond Wine's Bane]

The viewers are also to blame. We saw endless discussions about lines like “Fetch me a block” and “Ït was Cat”. But we hear nobody complain about a much more relevant sentence that was deleted: “Reek, make her wet for me”. Why wasn’t this brutal and insightful sentence included?

Because Ramsay never told Reek to make Sansa wet for him in the books.

[Guess who's back]

The viewers are also to blame. We saw endless discussions about lines like “Fetch me a block” and “Ït was Cat”. But we hear nobody complain about a much more relevant sentence that was deleted: “Reek, make her wet for me”. Why wasn’t this brutal and insightful sentence included?

Perfectly captured hypocrisy of book purists :lol:

[bravosi42]

might as well get it over it and introduce a separate option for "D&D suxx". Because that is the level this voting is at...

Way way too much identification with fictional characters going on here...

Some thoughts:

better if you think of book sansa and show sansa as different characters. They to all intents and purposes are. And hey there is every chance that book sansa will nnever leave the vale for the rest of asoiaf (so till 2030 as the series is finally concluded) we will be treated to her managing to build a normal life with dubious Harry and creepy uncle Petyr hovering in the background. Hell maybe even a spin off series called Sansa of green gables. Interesting in its own way, of course, and the added bonus of there not being a snowballs chance in hell of it making it to screen....

The rest of us will make do with the story oof the older and wiser Sansa who endures aand prevails.

[MorbidRabbit]

6/10

I'm ok with everything included in that episode except the Dorne stuff. In fact, this is true for every episode since the beginning of this 5th season.

How can a good show like this include something so stupid?