jacksonbrowne Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 Discontent is a little like a rolling stone, to use a terribly over used metaphor. In season one its “Oh no, they changed this one thing that I liked”, by season 5 its “they changed a word, it was never sword, it was block”, I’m never watching this sh*t again, the wrong person got raped”. Despite being told that the show will be different, over and over and over again, people have a blockage. Instead of enjoying having a really well made Fantasy show on TV, something that encourages the genre, we have people screaming blue murder. If anyone has ever watched “The Big Bang” where the main characters get really involved in a stupid argument over a comic book character, like how does superman clean his underwear, and the audience laughs at how pointless it is. Well this is it in real life. The reason Sansa was put in that position was to make it personal. So that it would be emotionally tearing for the audience and not just another “read shirt” being tormented by Ramsay. Real emotional tole. We care about Sansa, we don’t want her to get hurt, she does, the Boltons become enemy #1. Stannis becomes hero #1 if he can smash heads. Not only does the show encourage the genre, it 'legitimises' it and brings it out of the fantasy ghetto where only dorks wearing Spock's ears, Arwen gowns and Stormtrooper helmets to their sleep hang out. Game of Thrones is a show that makes sword-and-dragon fantasy cool and into something that intelligent people can watch and enjoy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
protar Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 Discontent is a little like a rolling stone, to use a terribly over used metaphor. In season one its “Oh no, they changed this one thing that I liked”, by season 5 its “they changed a word, it was never sword, it was block”, I’m never watching this sh*t again, the wrong person got raped”. Despite being told that the show will be different, over and over and over again, people have a blockage. Instead of enjoying having a really well made Fantasy show on TV, something that encourages the genre, we have people screaming blue murder. If anyone has ever watched “The Big Bang” where the main characters get really involved in a stupid argument over a comic book character, like how does superman clean his underwear, and the audience laughs at how pointless it is. Well this is it in real life. The reason Sansa was put in that position was to make it personal. So that it would be emotionally tearing for the audience and not just another “read shirt” being tormented by Ramsay. Real emotional tole. We care about Sansa, we don’t want her to get hurt, she does, the Boltons become enemy #1. Stannis becomes hero #1 if he can smash heads. If the show was actually good on its own merits that would be fine. And at one point it was. But no longer. I don't know how anyone can look at the hilariously choreographed fight scene in Dorne, or the Queen being arrested after a birth mark on her brother's ass, and still think that we're looking at well made television. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kefln Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 It just dawned to me. Some book readers got to taste the medicine their own version of chopping Ned Stark's head off and basically went all OtakuAssemble here. Thus far everyone has had time to read all the horrible stuff in the books, process it and so on. Now it all just... happened. It's new. It's hard.I mentioned that very point in another thread.It was fascinating, I watched the show with my wife and got a real insight into how she sees things. While I still have the over all plot points in my head, these little changes are making the season for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksonbrowne Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 (edited) If the show was actually good on its own merits that would be fine. And at one point it was. But no longer. I don't know how anyone can look at the hilariously choreographed fight scene in Dorne, or the Queen being arrested after a birth mark on her brother's ass, and still think that we're looking at well made television. Anyone? Almost EVERYONE still thinks it's well made television. Pretty much all the people thinking it's NOT quality television mostly are basically the Sparrows of ASOIAF online community. Edited May 19, 2015 by jacksonbrowne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kefln Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 Not only does the show encourage the genre, it 'legitimises' it and brings it out of the fantasy ghetto where only dorks wearing Spock's ears, Arwen gowns and Stormtrooper helmets to their sleep hang out. Game of Thrones is a show that makes sword-and-dragon fantasy cool and into something that intelligent people can watch and enjoy.Exactly. Yes there are dragons, but there is also politics, intrigue and real emotional value to the story. People who would never have picked up a fantasy book are being drawn into these worlds and that is great to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kefln Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 If the show was actually good on its own merits that would be fine. And at one point it was. But no longer. I don't know how anyone can look at the hilariously choreographed fight scene in Dorne, or the Queen being arrested after a birth mark on her brother's ass, and still think that we're looking at well made television. Tell that to my wife, who has never read the books and never would. During the entire episode she sat quietly watching it all unfold. The last scene her eyes never left the screen, but she did rest her head on the arm of the chair. When the Boltons all had dinner, my wife loved the little smile on Sansa's face when Ramsay was put in his place. When Stannis had that scene with Shireen a couple of weeks back, she delighted in telling me that she knew he wasn't such a bad guy - she's team Baratheon by the way. A show that keeps fans of walks of life glued to the screen, thats good TV. A Fantasy show that keeps people with no interest in fantasy watching, thats great TV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kefln Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 Anyone? Almost EVERYONE still thinks it's well made television. Pretty much all the people thinking it's NOT quality television mostly are basically the Sparrows of ASOIAF online community. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagLover Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 (edited) Voted an 8. Aside from Doran all of the Dornish scenes are unbelievable bad. The sand snakes fight looked like it was an out take from Xena Warrior princess. I find the Sansa scenes a bit jarring but more for the fact that she shouldn't be there rather than their content. After all they have toned down what happened to FArya in the books. Aside from that. Very good scenes with Arya, decent ones with Tyrion and in Kings landing. Edited May 19, 2015 by JagLover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocksniffer Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 i gave it an 8...i am glad sansa is in winterfell since i always thought her story in books was the weakest...also i am happy with the changes to tyrions travels...might have gotten a nine or ten if the sand snake scenes were better...and please lose the stupid shoes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valetudo Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 It just dawned to me. Some book readers got to taste the medicine their own version of chopping Ned Stark's head off and basically went all OtakuAssemble here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOoA1OtcNjMThus far everyone has had time to read all the horrible stuff in the books, process it and so on. Now it all just... happened. It's new. It's hard.If you felt surprised by Sansa's rape scene, I understand why you may still enjoy the show. The thing is, Sansa's rape has been debated on this forum as soon as we had evidence that she was going to Winterfell this pre-season. It's not because something isn't from the books that it becomes "shocking", and it's not because it's "shocking" that it becomes "good TV". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonifer Tasty Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 Dorne was unforgivably terrible. Preposterous plot, horrid dialogue, lame choreography for the fight, and a good amount of bush-league acting. Just terrible, through and through. What a waste of the sand snake opportunity, of course, but ALSO a wasted opportunity to do something interesting with Myrcella. The Loras trial was pretty horrid too, all in all, although in that case at least the scenario is plausible. But not the way it plays out. Olenna arrives weak and with no army? No. Kingsguard allowed to have weapons but not permitted to use them. No on both counts. Birthmark used as evidence, no - body servants see all these people naked all the time, that could easily be common knowledge. And there was, in that scene, no solid evidence to arrest Marjorie. Shite. Less offensive, but still pretty stupid, was the writing in the Jorah/slavers scene. No self-respecting slaver would kill a dwarf out of hand...he would sell a dwarf as a court entertainer if nothing else. Ridiculous premise. We're to believe that this slaver never handled a dwarf before? He would know either that he COULD kill Tyrion, or already know that he couldn't. Winterfell (awful as it was) and Braavos were at least well constructed and believable. I can't believe I'm giving a show such a low rating, but I'm so offended by how stupid so much of this was. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonifer Tasty Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 Dorne was unforgivably terrible. Preposterous plot, horrid dialogue, lame choreography for the fight, and a good amount of bush-league acting. Just terrible, through and through. What a waste of the sand snake opportunity, of course, but ALSO a wasted opportunity to do something interesting with Myrcella. The Loras trial was pretty horrid too, all in all, although in that case at least the scenario is plausible. But not the way it plays out. Olenna arrives weak and with no army? No. Kingsguard allowed to have weapons but not permitted to use them. No on both counts. Birthmark used as evidence, no - body servants see all these people naked all the time, that could easily be common knowledge. And there was, in that scene, no solid evidence to arrest Marjorie. Shite. Less offensive, but still pretty stupid, was the writing in the Jorah/slavers scene. No self-respecting slaver would kill a dwarf out of hand...he would sell a dwarf as a court entertainer if nothing else. Ridiculous premise. We're to believe that this slaver never handled a dwarf before? He would know either that he COULD kill Tyrion, or already know that he couldn't. Winterfell (awful as it was) and Braavos were at least well constructed and believable. I can't believe I'm giving a show such a low rating, but I'm so offended by how stupid so much of this was. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoungGriff89 Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 (edited) It just dawned to me. Some book readers got to taste the medicine their own version of chopping Ned Stark's head off and basically went all OtakuAssemble here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOoA1OtcNjMThus far everyone has had time to read all the horrible stuff in the books, process it and so on. Now it all just... happened. It's new. It's hard. On a side note, his reaction to Ned's beheading was hilarious. I gave the episode a rating of 1. Not ashamed of that, and I just did it today after re-watching the episode on HBO Now. I'll stick by the rating I gave the episode until my last day. The House of Black and White scenes were the only scenes I actually liked. Tyrion and Jorah were ok in this episode, nothing special. Those two storylines I had no real issue with. The King's Landing scenes were good in terms of acting, my hat's off to the cast on that one. Storyline? Not so much. The birthmark was such a ridiculous piece of evidence and they're taking a male prostitute's word over the queen? They have as much evidence she's lying as they have that he's telling the truth. I suppose you could make an argument that Loras' reaction gave it away I suppose but I don't think that a reaction and a sworn statement are the same. Religious fanatics or not there are myriad ways a squire could have seen Loras had a birthmark. I can forgive Littlefinger having a jetpack and not sharing the technology with the rest of the country, but the believability of the developing storyline is trying my patience. I actually think sending Jaime to Dorne was a good story idea, it does make sense to me. The execution of that however, has been terrible. I understand the idea of introducing new characters and locations through a character we all know and are familiar with. And with the talk of war in Dorne and Myrcella being there, I could understand Jaime negotiating for peace there instead of the Riverlands and taking Myrcella back similar to taking a hostage in ADWD (I forget who that was at the moment). To me it isn't that far of a departure from the book since the same thing he was doing in the Riverlands he's just doing in Dorne. Well, in episode two they decided that character we were familiar with was Ellaria and not Jaime. Then they also decided it will be six episodes in before anything actually happens with Dorne. Say what you want about AFFC but Areo Hotah's first chapter was chapter 2, they wasted no time to jump into Dorne, and the show shouldn't have either in my opinion. Then we have the Sand Snakes. The Sand Snakes aren't overly humanized or developed in the books either, odd thing to stay faithful to in the show especially when two characters who are fleshed out in the books are absent from the show (Quentyn and Arianne). Then they're all ethnically the same as Oberyn, ok whatever I can see how sending Sansa to Winterfell to get raped took priority over fleshing out the world that the story takes place in and having an interesting plot in this new place. I could have forgiven the "coincidental" rendezvous between the Sand Snakes and the Cooper/ Darnell team if the fight it led to had been good. It wasn't, and moving the camera around to hide poor choreography only works so much. I did like Areo Hotah paraphrasing the Blackfish though, that was a nice touch and about the only positive thing I can say about Dorne besides enjoying Alexander Siddig's turn as Doran Martell. Despite the fact he's had very little to work with. The Winterfell storyline has been ok up until going backwards with Sansa's plot development. However, there was no point in her dying her hair or taking the identity of Alayne Stone. There was also no point to Theon even being at her wedding since it was so much smaller in the show and as far as I know there were no northern lords to convince. I think F/Arya was easy enough to do on screen, I wish they would have stuck to the book in that regard. They sent Sansa to Winterfell just to have her be raped, that's a stupid, stupid idea regardless of whether or not she's taking the Lady Stoneheart role. F/Arya's treatment in the books was disgusting and over the top, Sansa having her story at the Vale replaced with F/Arya's story from the book just so she could get raped and need Theon to help her escape? A total downgrade and step backwards for the character. Sophie Turner is working on X-Men anyway, you don't want a boring season in the Vale? Same playbook with a boring season of Bran, just give her two or three scenes and leave it at that, make it up by actually getting into some of the interesting stuff you could have done with Dorne. Which brings me to my final thought: Does it seem like a jump in logic, cutting out and modifying some of the more popular lines/ events/ characters from the book because it's an adaptation but then forcing the show despite all the changes to ruin the book's ending? Wouldn't changing things so dramatically free the writers from spoiling too much of the book's ending? Making R+L=J irrelevant for example. We've gone nearly five seasons with any suggestions or hints of who Jon's parents are, since any references to it now are going to be forced why not just end the show with Jon really being Ned's son? It's an adaptation and different from the source material right? Edited May 20, 2015 by YoungGriff89 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
protar Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 (edited) Anyone? Almost EVERYONE still thinks it's well made television. Pretty much all the people thinking it's NOT quality television mostly are basically the Sparrows of ASOIAF online community. I'm not denying that a lot of people still like the show, I'm simply having trouble comprehending why. Well, that's not really true - I know that the general public laps this stuff up, it's the same reason why the Transformers movies can make billions of dollars. The show is undeniably riddled with plot holes and inconsistencies. The show apologists seldom actually come up with proper rebuttals to the complaints about the show, they just stick their fingers in their ears and shout argument ad populum at the top of their lungs. I would dearly love to see someone, anyone, analyse the Dornish plot line this season and come to the conclusion that it makes good television. Why is this show good? If you want to have a discussion you need to actually look at the show and tell me what is so great about it, not blather about how many people watch it. And to be honest, I think the drop in quality is beginning to show. I know my family are beginning to grow bored with the show, and many of the Unsullied seem to be nearing the end of their rope. After this episode the critics are finally starting to actually criticise the show and viewing figures have dropped below that of a previous season for the first time in the show's history. Edited May 19, 2015 by protar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyanna<3Rhaegar Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 I want to change my vote to a 10 to counteract some of the 1's. Seriously 1? I wouldn't sit through a whole episode of something I would rate at a 1 & if you didn't watch the whole thing you have no business rating it. I think the biggest problem is that we know what is 'supposed' to happen or what could have happened. The argument that this or that just isn't realistic cracks me up. None of this is realistic... Its fake, fantasy, fiction. My unsullied friends have thoroughly enjoyed the season so far. That's not to say they don't critique the episode & find things they don't like. My sister seriously laughed at the fight in Dorne. That was pretty bad. But the rest of it was pretty good. Some parts better than others. Good in different ways like Arya & little girl, that was sad, Tyrion & Jorah scenes a little comical, a little frightening. Theon/Sansa/Ramsay repulsive, maddening. My point is the show elicits emotion. All sort of emotions. That's what a good show is supposed to do. To rate it a 1 seems as if either you are a book purist & cannot stand the fact things have changed or nothing ever will make you happy. Of course that's just my opinion. Feel free to flay me for it though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drogonthedread Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 It just dawned to me. Some book readers got to taste the medicine their own version of chopping Ned Stark's head off and basically went all OtakuAssemble here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOoA1OtcNjMThus far everyone has had time to read all the horrible stuff in the books, process it and so on. Now it all just... happened. It's new. It's hard. MY GOD i used to like them back then but he is the biggest cry baby i have ever seen ...just glad he decided to stop reviewing the show .. Man it was hard to sit and watch his videos last season ...if you dont know what i mean just go and check the episode of 8,9,10 small council meetings... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SandorSnakes Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 The worst episode of the worst season of the series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsyao Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 The worst episode of the worst season of the series. To be fair, the right way to say is that this is the worst episode so far in the worst season of the series so far Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyanna<3Rhaegar Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 The worst episode of the worst season of the series.Why do you continue to watch? I'm seriously not trying to be a dick I'm genuinely curious as to why you continue to watch a show that you think is so bad? I think True blood is horrible. I watched an episode or two years ago & just really hated it. So... I quit watching it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tadco26 Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 The writing just isn't very good this season. Might as well cut Dorne completely if this is the best story line they can come up with for it. Regarding the rape scene, rape is a sensitive subject for lots of people. Sure Jeyne's fate was even worse, but it was one tiny part of two huge books and she is destroyed after it happens. They really worked hard to make a ridiculous scenario where Sansa can be raped when they cut or changed over 50% of two huge books. And I suspect that in a few episodes Sansa will act like it never happened just like Cersei did with Jaime.It's a realistic outcome for Ramsay and Sansa in that scenario, it's just not one you can say is necessary. The book plot revolves highly on the northern lords who don't even exist in the show. The rape and torture of fake Arya is heard regularly by the lords of the north who are visiting and helps lower morale and loosen support for the Boltons. Without the lords even being mentioned on the show, there really isn't even anything to gain from marrying Ramsay to Sansa in the first place. Become enemies of the crown is a pretty poor trade off for having a figure head Stark bride. And even after going with the ill conceived Sansa in Winterfell plot, they had the option of having Sansa rescued before the bedding. Even if Sansa personally kills Ramsay the damage of having her family killed and then being raped by the son of the murderer makes it a pretty hollow "victory" at that point.It didn't offend me, but in the end this is a show meant to be entertaining, and lots of people don't find that subject matter entertaining at all. My fiancée was already bored most of the season. Sansa was one of the last Starks alive and she basically said "Why am I watching this any more? Everyone who is left is either evil or a victim. Who is the hero at this point? I'm not really getting any entertainment from seeing the characters I care about get murdered, tortured or raped".Couldn't really give her a good answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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