[Poll] How would you rate episode 506

[Lord Eddard]

Ever thought about the possible reason of the drop in quality being the drastic drop in quality of the source material?

WORD

Btw, I rated it a solid 8. Loved the Winterfell scenes and the ending, didn't care about Dorne so much. In general, D&D do a splendid stuff of improving the bloated mess of Feast and Dance, a real gargantuan task!

[AlpenglowMemories]

I changed my rating to a 7/10. I'm still not fond of Sansa being in Winterfell, but looking again, I felt the scene was well-performed and deserves credit on its own merits. The House of Black and White is, again, very nice tonally well done. Arya manipulating the girl to take the water might be the best scene. I don't feel the overall direction was as strong as "Kill the Boy" from Podeswa, but it was mostly serviceable.

The worst thing? Definitely Dorne. It's been the strangest thing they've put on screen. Everything about that sequence was beyond bad.

[Lord Eddard]

3. No. I and most people critical of the show DO NOT criticise it because it diverges from the book plot. How many times do we have to make that clear? We criticise it because it is poor storytelling, lacking logic, leaving loose ends all over the place, creating new plotholes every episode. I personally was okay with Talisa, with Ros, with ShowQarth, because it worked. It doesn't any longer - not if you look at it closely.

So you are basically describing A Dance with Dragons, yes?

Let's face it, the source material has deeply declined in quality after Storm so major changes were inevitable. What did you expect, four episodes of Tyrion wandering aimlessly around, mumbling "Where do whores go" and swimming with turtles? Five episodes of Dany in Meereen doing nothing except lusting for Dario's manhood?

Get a dose of reality, D&D doing the best they can with the material they were given.

[Rena Melville]

"Ever thought about the possible reason of the drop in quality being the drastic drop in quality of the source material?"

But they are not following the source material.

[Johnsmith]

Everyone that voted 1/10 should move to Missouri and watch the Hallmark Channel with Claire McCaskill. The rest of us are good, thanks.

:cheers:

Hey I voted 1/10 because the episode stunk

I am not moving to sadistic darkaged missouri where hypocritical dictators do not understand the conceptual meanings of the terms they righteously spue.

Claire McCaskill would probably ship me off to boarding school dropping my breeches and give me a bakers dozen. Momma ive been raped

Edited May 20, 2015 by Johnsmith

[Drag0nBl00d]

I personally enjoyed this episode. Maybe not as much as the others but it all seemed like a build up for something much bigger. It seems like I'm in the minority tho, but I have loved this show since the beginning and will continue to support it even if it does have a few downsides like the Dorne stuff (which isn't enough to bring the rating to 1, like some people said).

For those who keep using the fact that viewership dropped from previous seasons as a way to bash the show, have you actually considered how prevalent piracy is nowadays? Not only GoT but every show is dropping in viewership. It's what happens when you have so many websites streaming episodes for free. The numbers themselves aren't really an indication of the show's success, to gauge that you must compare it to the market, and as far as competition goes I think we can all agree there is currently none out there.

I'm looking forward to what the show has in store for us and I trust it won't disappoint.

[Tadco26]

"Ever thought about the possible reason of the drop in quality being the drastic drop in quality of the source material?"

But they are not following the source material.

Exactly. If this was a faithful adaptation and every one was rating it a 1 then sure, blame it on the source material. When writing their own fan fiction they don't get that excuse. Especially when it is their original material which is by far the worst part of the show.

[Lord Rowmark]

I just loved it...best episode yet! I judge each episode by the collection of scenes it has, not by the action or plot. We've had a few great scenes this season with Stannis/Jon, Stannis/Shireen, but everything else has just been static. This episode we had a great exchange with Cersei and Olenna. Cersei mimics Tywin and Olenna bust her out on it...then realizes she is dealing with an immature child with Cersei's "it wasn't me, it was the one armed-man" denial.

We get to finally see the Hall of Faces, which exceeded expectations for me. I imagined a cylindar room with faces reaching the ceiling...wasn't expecting pillars of faces too. Very thrilling to see! We also get to see a great exchange between Littlefinger and Cersei. We see how easy it is for LF to manipulate Cersei. It was almost like he was smirking at the viewers as he did it (see, look at what I can do). The Dorne scenes...meh, nothing special...but what do you expect when they are making it up as they go.

Then Sansa...Sansa, Sansa, Sansa...loved it. The wedding was very sacred IMO. Showed the difference between the religions and customs of Northmen and those in King's Landing. And Sansa took it like a champ! She knew what she was getting into, and its about time she killed the little girl in her. I'm sad it took this long to do it. We see her finally stand up to someone [Miranda] and then freak out afterwards?? <---didn't like that! I can only hope she does what LF told her to do...maybe this Bolton boy hers.

[Fez]

"Classics of fantasy literature, but not of all literature." - okay say no more, I get it: You're a genre snob. Lots of people are, I think it's part of why GoT is not held up to the scrutiny of other shows. The show surpasses the extremely low expectations people have of fantasy, so they don't expect anything more and don't look any deeper.

ASOIAF may do none of that for you, but the books have certainly inspired me, and changed my world. The books are incredibly deep, you could write a dissertation on each POV character. And ultimately the books are really good. For me that is the only true measure of a classic: Quality. If the story is no good, all the philosophical depth in the world is meaningless.

Ha! Genre snob? I suppose its fine to think that, because you don't know me, but that just makes me laugh. I've been reading fantasy and sci-fi since I was 5 (read the Hobbit), I love the stuff. And I read the first two ASOIAF books in '99, when I was 12 years old, I've grown up with these books and I've grown up with the genre. There certainly are fantasy/sci-fi books that are classics of all literature (Gormenghast, Hyperion, LOTR, arguably some of Jack Vance's work, etc.), but ASOIAF isn't one of them. And many other genres have their own classics that don't reach the status of classic of all literature, its not like fantasy/sci-fi is its own little ghetto while everything else freely mingles.

ASOIAF is incredibly deep in the sense that there's a well-written, multi-layered plot (at least for the first three novels) and a well-constructed world; but that's it. It doesn't have a point or something to say, it doesn't critically examine its characters, its a fun operatic soap. It doesn't tell us anything about our world or ourselves. And the one time it really tried to, the Riverlands chapters in AFFC going on about the horrors of war, it was hamfisted, repetitive, and boring.

Its some of the best popcorn fun around, but that's all.

[Rena Melville]

ASOIAF is incredibly deep in the sense that there's a well-written, multi-layered plot (at least for the first three novels) and a well-constructed world; but that's it. It doesn't have a point or something to say, it doesn't critically examine its characters, its a fun operatic soap. It doesn't tell us anything about our world or ourselves. And the one time it really tried to, the Riverlands chapters in AFFC going on about the horrors of war, it was hamfisted, repetitive, and boring.

Its some of the best popcorn fun around, but that's all.

At this point i just believe there are 2 differents books whose name is A song of Ice and Fire, because we're obviously didn't read the same books :| That would explain why GoT is getting out of hand though.

[protar]

Ha! Genre snob? I suppose its fine to think that, because you don't know me, but that just makes me laugh. I've been reading fantasy and sci-fi since I was 5 (read the Hobbit), I love the stuff. And I read the first two ASOIAF books in '99, when I was 12 years old, I've grown up with these books and I've grown up with the genre. There certainly are fantasy/sci-fi books that are classics of all literature (Gormenghast, Hyperion, LOTR, arguably some of Jack Vance's work, etc.), but ASOIAF isn't one of them. And many other genres have their own classics that don't reach the status of classic of all literature, its not like fantasy/sci-fi is its own little ghetto while everything else freely mingles.

ASOIAF is incredibly deep in the sense that there's a well-written, multi-layered plot (at least for the first three novels) and a well-constructed world; but that's it. It doesn't have a point or something to say, it doesn't critically examine its characters, its a fun operatic soap. It doesn't tell us anything about our world or ourselves. And the one time it really tried to, the Riverlands chapters in AFFC going on about the horrors of war, it was hamfisted, repetitive, and boring.

Its some of the best popcorn fun around, but that's all.

Enjoying fantasy books does not mean you're not a genre snob. If you enjoy ASOIAF, but call it pulpy popcorn fun because it's a fantasy, that's genre snobbery. If ASOIAF was 50 years old and didn't have any magic, it's place as a literary classic would not be in dispute. I don't know how anyone can say that ASOIAF doesn't have anything to say, or that it doesn't critically examine its characters. Indeed you're forced to admit that it does have something to say - about the horrors of war (which is one of just many themes ASOIAF explores) - but oh it's hamfisted and boring so it doesn't count. Even supposing it is boring, if boringness was enough to prevent a work of fiction from being a classic, we wouldn't have many classics.

There's a vast corpus of analytical essays on ASOIAF, but because they're written on forums and not in journals, the wider literary scene does not consider them of merit. That is the sad reality of the speculative fiction ghetto. ASOIAF is tightly plotted, with a deep and immersive world, a vast cast of complex and memorable characters, with a lot to say about war, honour, power and morality. What about that isn't a classic?

And most importantly it is interesting. You can't have the cart without the horse: If your deep, philosophical message is not wrapped in with an interesting tale it's useless. I would rather have a slightly less philosophical story with an interesting plot, than some dry, dull tome which I have to take a university course to understand its message. The latter is a literary failure.

ETA: And semantic debates about what qualifies a classic aside, I do not see how anyone could truly believe that the show reaches the same level of depth as the books. Saying that the show's fine because it's "pulpy fun fiction just like the books" implies that not only is ASOIAF pulp, but it's pulp on the same level as the show. Are you really saying that?

Edited May 20, 2015 by protar

[Glad Komrad]

I just loved it...best episode yet! I judge each episode by the collection of scenes it has, not by the action or plot. We've had a few great scenes this season with Stannis/Jon, Stannis/Shireen, but everything else has just been static. This episode we had a great exchange with Cersei and Olenna. Cersei mimics Tywin and Olenna bust her out on it...then realizes she is dealing with an immature child with Cersei's "it wasn't me, it was the one armed-man" denial.

We get to finally see the Hall of Faces, which exceeded expectations for me. I imagined a cylindar room with faces reaching the ceiling...wasn't expecting pillars of faces too. Very thrilling to see! We also get to see a great exchange between Littlefinger and Cersei. We see how easy it is for LF to manipulate Cersei. It was almost like he was smirking at the viewers as he did it (see, look at what I can do). The Dorne scenes...meh, nothing special...but what do you expect when they are making it up as they go.

Then Sansa...Sansa, Sansa, Sansa...loved it. The wedding was very sacred IMO. Showed the difference between the religions and customs of Northmen and those in King's Landing. And Sansa took it like a champ! She knew what she was getting into, and its about time she killed the little girl in her. I'm sad it took this long to do it. We see her finally stand up to someone [Miranda] and then freak out afterwards?? <---didn't like that! I can only hope she does what LF told her to do...maybe this Bolton boy hers.

Well said. This episode really did combine some of the best we've seen, possibly in the entire series, with some of the worst. It's pretty telling that so many are unwilling to acknowledge any of the things done well. I'm pretty sure this group is so dogged in their desire that the show mimic the books in every aspect, and that none of their precious storylines get tarnished, they have rendered themselves blind. The Hall of Faces was awe-inspiring . All of House and Black scenes were superb. There were great dialogue exchanges in this episode. Arya and the Waif, Arya and Jaqen, Tyrion and Jorah, Sansa and Theon, Sansa and Myranda, Cersei and Littlefinger, Cersei and Olenna, Littlefinger and Lancel; all extremely well scripted. I almost feel bad for viewers deaf to it. The Grey Wedding - masterfully done. The attention to detail was most impressive. More than the bedding, it gave me chills to see Sansa married to Ramsey under the weirwood tree where her father, Ned, once sat sharpening Ice. Now, the pond is turned to ice, snow falls, and winter has come for summer child Sansa. The acting and script for the wedding was also quite good. Never mind all that though, I didn't want Sansa to lose empowerment. I also had to laugh at a bad scene in Dorne, or I'd cry. This must be the worst show on TV! Clearly, I was mistaken and the episode is a 1 on a scale of 10. Yes, what was I thinking clicking buttons on a poll while still rational? :dunce:

[dannyk65]

So you are basically describing A Dance with Dragons, yes?

Let's face it, the source material has deeply declined in quality after Storm so major changes were inevitable. What did you expect, four episodes of Tyrion wandering aimlessly around, mumbling "Where do whores go" and swimming with turtles? Five episodes of Dany in Meereen doing nothing except lusting for Dario's manhood?

Get a dose of reality, D&D doing the best they can with the material they were given.

Hopefully at some point you will realize that you are very much in the minority with these opinions

[abacabb]

I agree the setup (maybe) is all part of the "bigger picture" D&D have laid out but to say "This episode really did combine some of the best we've seen, possibly in the entire series, with some THE of the worst." is an indication at least 2 people here have gone mad over this show.

For me, it wasn't just the content that made me hate this episode, it was the logic applied, careless writing and lazy execution of everything that happened. I get it that they want us to climb back to the highest peak in sympathy for Sansa just before she (or some hero)might finally do something about it all (or not) but did we really need to have our hands held to bring us back to that feeling? This has to be the final straw.. something is going to finally happen? We can only hope. (I saw the look in Reeks eyes (because he's a fantastic actor) and to me it looks like he's about to be the one that does something about it. IDK Who would be better though? The guy that didn't really kill her brothers? This could be one way to write it in..

I'll never forget or forgive the episode that I watched that shows Jamie and Bronn travel into Dorne so effortlessly, creep through the WG in broad daylight, just to stroll up so easily on ML & TM just to proceed with "psst, psst! Let's chat over here!" followed again by the worst choreographed fight scene ever to be shown on premium cable. This is GOT this isn't god damned https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=171&v=yd_1HJbMngE

I also hated how they setup Bronn for a shit sendoff, poison? Really? He's been epic the entire series now you want to take him out this way?

Edited May 20, 2015 by abacabb

[Metopheles]

Feast and Dance are the best books. The plots are from new angles, new povs bringing new backstories, new locations, new threats. Slower but sometimes more interesting and complex plots, like the North and Meereen, or King's Landing.

Tyrion was as pov very weak. Unbearable to read. But the people he encountered and the stories are great.

In those two books the characters and the world is finally set up, everything is now in motion and the story is really much better. Now fires are burning in every corner of Westeros and Essos.

The plot thickens and grows.

Cersei's pov is grrms very best.

[Metopheles]

Feast and Dance are the best books. The plots are from new angles, new povs bringing new backstories, new locations, new threats. Slower but sometimes more interesting and complex plots, like the North and Meereen, or King's Landing.

Tyrion was as pov very weak. Unbearable to read. But the people he encountered and the stories are great.

In those two books the characters and the world is finally set up, everything is now in motion and the story is really much better. Now fires are burning in every corner of Westeros and Essos.

The plot thickens and grows.

Cersei's pov is grrms very best.

[bb1180]

I gave it a 6/10.

It wasn't bad. It just wasn't good, and following on the heels of a strong effort the episode prior, I found myself at least somewhat disappointed with it. The biggest problem is that the weakest plotlines were all emphasized in this episode.

-Arya is one of my favorite characters, but her current arc, both in the show and the books, definitely has her in the doldrums of boredom for me. I can't really criticize the show for their portrayal, it is what it is, and hopefully her story takes her out of there soon.

-The Kings' Landing storyline is middle-of-the-road, and interesting primarily because of the potential for a break in the Lannister/Tyrell alliance. The 'trial' was OK for what it was.

-Sansa's storyline IS potentially a very good change from the books. I wish they hadn't 'went there' with that final scene, but I'm not going to get all offended over it, especially when we've seen worse. It also made me a bit sympathetic toward Theon. I never could find any sympathy for book Theon, though it seems GRRM wanted us to.

-If I liked LF's plan before, I love it now. The guy is playing everyone off each other and wants the IT for himself. And, true to form, Cersei is too shortsighted in her hate and anger to see what Baelish was really trying to do in that scene.

-At this point, I don't know how they can salvage the Dorne plotline. The interactions between Jaime and Bronn are very good, but the rest of it...all of it....are just a complete mess. That whole 'rescue' attempt was just laughably bad, like something out of a bad Sci-Fi channel movie.

Edited May 20, 2015 by bb1180

[abacabb]

From a producer of the show

“This is Game of Thrones,” Bryan told Entertainment Weekly. “This isn’t a timid little girl walking into a wedding night with Joffrey (Jack Gleeson). This is a hardened woman making a choice and she sees this as the way to get back her homeland. Sansa has a wedding night in the sense she never thought she would with one of the monsters of the show. It’s pretty intense and awful and the character will have to deal with it.”

[White Harbors Wrath]

So you are basically describing A Dance with Dragons, yes?

Let's face it, the source material has deeply declined in quality after Storm so major changes were inevitable. What did you expect, four episodes of Tyrion wandering aimlessly around, mumbling "Where do whores go" and swimming with turtles? Five episodes of Dany in Meereen doing nothing except lusting for Dario's manhood?

Get a dose of reality, D&D doing the best they can with the material they were given.

This is not true.

Yes, those books were FILLED with "filler". There is no way they could adapt Feast and Dance "faithfully" and keep people awake.

BUT...you most certainly could create their condensed 10 episode TV adaptation by picking and choosing material between both books.

[Faceless She-wolf]

Am I missing something? Why have people voted the episode at a 1?