Dornish Disappointment

[Cashless Society]

Also, did anyone notice that Tyene's daggers changed from her first appearance to her second? First they were very thin blades, and now they are like props for the Xena series, all curvy and all.

Actually, Nym's blade was curvy.

[jet199]

I'm starting to think that Obara's repetition of who she is is because the other two are going to be sent on missions and be important in the next season but she is going to become Darkstar, rebel and get killed this season.

[nastydream]

Are we going to talk about what they did to poor Ellaria's character??

[Rena Melville]

Are we going to talk about what they did to poor Ellaria's character??

"We do not arm little girls in dorne." :drunk:

Oberyn and Show!Ellaria were meant for each other :cool4:

[Jon Flow]

"Watching Gendry row a boat for 50 minutes would probably be more interesting than every scene in Dorne combined."

I liked the fact that Bron and Jamie sailed past Tarth, but I think they missed their opportunity to check other plotlines:

"Jamie, is it just me or does that guy in the rowboat look a lot like a young Robert Baratheon?"
"Bron! Check it out... I just saw Baelon Greyjoy fall off of a bridge!"
"Is that the Blackfish standing on the Bank of the Trident taking a piss? Brendan, The wedding is over! You might want to go check on Robb!"

[JonCon's Red Beard]

I liked the fact that Bron and Jamie sailed past Tarth, but I think they missed their opportunity to check other plotlines:

"Is that the Blackfish standing on the Bank of the Trident taking a piss? Brendan, The wedding is over! You might want to go check on Robb!"

"You always disappoint, Kingslayer!!!"

"...what??!"

"I said you always disa--- you know what? Never mind. I'll better hurry up and return to my plot. See you in Riverrun".

"...whaaat???.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

"You always disappoint, Kingslayer!!!"

"...what??!"

"I said you always disa--- you know what? Never mind. I'll better hurry up and return to my plot. See you in Riverrun".

"...whaaat???.

Jaime: It's a good thing The Blackfish didn't seem to need help, I only rescue maidens!!

Bronn: I only deflower them, D&D style.

[dannyk65]

"Watching Gendry row a boat for 50 minutes would probably be more interesting than every scene in Dorne combined."

I liked the fact that Bron and Jamie sailed past Tarth, but I think they missed their opportunity to check other plotlines:

"Jamie, is it just me or does that guy in the rowboat look a lot like a young Robert Baratheon?"

"Bron! Check it out... I just saw Baelon Greyjoy fall off of a bridge!"

"Is that the Blackfish standing on the Bank of the Trident taking a piss? Brendan, The wedding is over! You might want to go check on Robb!"

:bowdown:

[LadySoftheart]

"Watching Gendry row a boat for 50 minutes would probably be more interesting than every scene in Dorne combined."

I liked the fact that Bron and Jamie sailed past Tarth, but I think they missed their opportunity to check other plotlines:

"Jamie, is it just me or does that guy in the rowboat look a lot like a young Robert Baratheon?"

"Bron! Check it out... I just saw Baelon Greyjoy fall off of a bridge!"

"Is that the Blackfish standing on the Bank of the Trident taking a piss? Brendan, The wedding is over! You might want to go check on Robb!"

:rofl:

[Arya442]

Yes the writer's seemingly thinking that these characters are so interchangeable that you can just cut and paste them essentially is rather irritating. Ellaria's not the only character who suffers from this, but she's definitely one of the most egregious examples. Plus they've made her look really dumb to boot (her "plan" is laughably absurd and nonsensical).

[Good Guy Garlan]

Yes the writer's seemingly thinking that these characters are so interchangeable that you can just cut and paste them essentially is rather irritating. Ellaria's not the only character who suffers from this, but she's definitely one of the most egregious examples. Plus they've made her look really dumb to boot (her "plan" is laughably absurd and nonsensical).

Arianne's Queenmaking plot looks like a freaking stroke of genius compared to whatever Ellaria planned

[TheKitttenGuard]

Arianne's Queenmaking plot looks like a freaking stroke of genius compared to whatever Ellaria planned

I think that was what they were aiming for. A plan that is very rah-rah and then just a shambles when actually done. Just done poorly.

The issue Dorne is that it is really Jaime's S5 story and nothing to do with the Martell's themselves. They feel like props in service to it.

[Good Guy Garlan]

I think that was what they were aiming for. A plan that is very rah-rah and then just a shambles when actually done. Just done poorly.

The issue Dorne is that it is really Jaime's S5 story and nothing to do with the Martell's themselves. They feel like props in service to it.

Yep, and I think that part of the reason is that the Queenmaking Plot will be Doran's master plan instead of the whole Quentyn/Trystane thing

[jbob]

I really believe that this whole Dorne thing with Jaime was just to slow down his plot and not have his character be ahead of everyone else. They'll have him in the Riverlands next season.

[HexMachina]

Jaime: It's a good thing The Blackfish didn't seem to need help, I only rescue maidens!!

Bronn: I only deflower them, D&D style.

There are no maidens on HBO

[Stonehearted Snake]

Yep, and I think that part of the reason is that the Queenmaking Plot will be Doran's master plan instead of the whole Quentyn/Trystane thing

I'm really starting to suspect this as well. The Queenmaker plot, while fraught with all kinds of issues, is actually very interesting. It makes sense why book!Doran is opposed to such an outright act of rebellion, but we don't know if show!Doran is the same. We've all been saying (well, some people, not me) that Ellaria took Arianne's role, when maybe it is actually Doran who is taking Arianne's role? (Too bad no one seems to have taken book!Ellaria's role - her perspective on the cycles of revenge would be an interesting counterpoint).

[Arya442]

Well this show seems kind of obsessed with "REVVVENNGGE." They seemed to have removed a lot of the "revenge can blow up in your face" stuff that GRRM had in the books. Heck the best motivation that they could come up with for the Sansa thing was "vague revenge plot, somehow." So the fact that we've seen no trace of Book-Ellaria's POV doesn't really surprise me.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

I'm really starting to suspect this as well. The Queenmaker plot, while fraught with all kinds of issues, is actually very interesting. It makes sense why book!Doran is opposed to such an outright act of rebellion, but we don't know if show!Doran is the same. We've all been saying (well, some people, not me) that Ellaria took Arianne's role, when maybe it is actually Doran who is taking Arianne's role? (Too bad no one seems to have taken book!Ellaria's role - her perspective on the cycles of revenge would be an interesting counterpoint).

The problem with this (which doesn't sound bad, actually) is that the QM plot has a purpose. We're meant to feel sorry for Arianne because Arianne was, in a way, continuing his uncle's wishes. It was Oberyn who suggested the Queenmaker plot (although I don't think he was serious, it was nothing but a ruse to me) and Tyene and Arianne believed him. And it's also the fact that he died and the first time we saw Doran he says "well, he put himself in that position". Considering Oberyn is quite a popular character, it makes sense we cheer for Arianne and Oberyn's daughters.

But after the plan is botched, we are told exactly what is behind Doran's mind and actions. That's what make him a badass to the eyes of those who -like me- like him, because he says "You think I have no plan. I've had a plan for the last 17 years and I even got to fool you, Arianne". Which is true, as no one in KL suspects he was hoping to back up a Targaryen and kill them all.

That's why I like Doran and I feel that's the reason GRRM likes him too (or that's why he created him in that way): anyone can jump and kill a person out of rage. It would have taken little for him to capture Jon Arryn, kill him and declare war to the Iron Throne. He had to swallow the bitter taste of feasting with one of the architects of the rebellion that got his sister and his niece and nephew not only killed but butchered. Oberyn's rage is something we can understand but as soon as he stepped on KL, he started to think with his lance (the real one). He jumped at the very first opportunity to kill Clegane and, had they hadn't been given Myrcella, walking away with the man they accused of killing the King, would have meant war against Dorne one way or another.

The QM plan is something that is also show us how making assumptions is wrong. Arianne feels many Lords would back her up in her rebellion. Only six people worked with her, and while one of them was not even noble, another one was not completely on agreement. Every other lord seems to be in good terms with Doran, even those who are historically his enemies. Because Doran has kept them away from the war and protected. They all were on the plan of keeping Balon Swann entertained and those who were parents of Arianne's friends accepted the punishment or gave some of their own. It was a way to portray how close Doran is to his Lords and Ladies.

Of course, D&D only got the Queenmaker plan because "awesome!".

There are no maidens on HBO

And considering what happened in the last episode, I'd say many of our sensibilities were raped too. Like, there is a few watchers who felt so affected with the scene that the feeling continued after turning off the tv. I didn't finish the scene and I won't do because, the little bit I knew keep on haunting me for a couple of days.

[dannyk65]

^^^^ One for the ages

[Good Guy Garlan]

snip

Yep, exactly. As shortsighted as the QM plan was, at the time I was rooting for it to work because I thought Doran was an old fart who was afraid of Tywin and the QM was the only way Dorne was ever gonna get back at the Lannisters. There was also the thing about Doran supposedly stealing Arianne's rights and all that.

So GRRM actually had me rooting against Doran for a while, but in the show that's all fucking backwards because Doran looks like the only sane person in a sea of Lady Macbeths. I mean, I don't think we were supposed to root for Ellaria and the Ninja Turtles, but there's where you lose a lot of the ambiguity of the book.

Like, if Ellaria's plan had been the QM plan then, fuck, a part of me would've been rooting for her to succeed, while another part would've wanted Jaime and Bronn to rescue her. That's good, that's conflict, and conflict is the essence of drama!

But D&D just up and murdered any potential ambiguity in Dorne.