[BOOK and SHOW SPOILERS] So what is Littlefinger's game now?

[Ted Chang]

Don't think stannis would be forgiving to someone who had a hand in ruining his taking of kings landing. i understand that he's playing all the sides but it makes no sense. It's like Tyrion completely forgetting that littlefinger blamed the attempt on brans life on him.

What else can LF do? He's no warrior and truth is he hasn't got much of an army either. I think in the fullness of time we will see his schemes unravel, almost like a juggler who is keeping one too many balls in the air. To me his scheming makes absolute sense. He's just playing with the hand he was dealt.

[JetonGrajqevci]

Here are a few assumptions about Littlefinger:

1. He believes he has the Vale on his side

2. He makes an ally with the Boltons in case they win by giving them Sansa

3. He originally had no plans to leave Sansa but once Cersei summoned him he had to revise his plans. He had already promised Sansa to the Boltons by the time he got the letter and he is simply hoping that Sansa can manage on her own

4. He has no intention of sending the Vale to the North, that was his third suggestion after Kevan and Jaime to not lose face in front of Cersei

5. He means to backstab Cersei

6. He thinks Sansa will still be on his side once he returns to Winterfell

In reality I think he will be betrayed by both the Vale and Sansa as they will never forgive him for what he started when he promised Sansa to Ramsay. And if Stannis wins over Winterfell he will thus have no allies at all north of King's Landing. Truly, his only hope is that the Boltons survive but then he will never get to keep Sansa.

[Ted Chang]

Here are a few assumptions about Littlefinger:

1. He believes he has the Vale on his side

2. He makes an ally with the Boltons in case they win by giving them Sansa

3. He originally had no plans to leave Sansa but once Cersei summoned him he had to revise his plans. He had already promised Sansa to the Boltons by the time he got the letter and he is simply hoping that Sansa can manage on her own

4. He has no intention of sending the Vale to the North, that was his third suggestion after Kevan and Jaime to not lose face in front of Cersei

5. He means to backstab Cersei

6. He thinks Sansa will still be on his side once he returns to Winterfell

In reality I think he will be betrayed by both the Vale and Sansa as they will never forgive him for what he started when he promised Sansa to Ramsay. And if Stannis wins over Winterfell he will thus have no allies at all north of King's Landing. Truly, his only hope is that the Boltons survive but then he will never get to keep Sansa.

Those are some pretty solid assumption. IMHO. As I said elsewhere he's like a juggler who keeps having to put one more ball in the air to stay ahead of the game. Sooner or later...

[TheJadeKnight]

Qyburn is competant at his job in the books, there is nothing so far to suggest that he is incompetant in the show besides this scene. But even if they had ZERO agents working in the north, just the bounty on Sansa's head and the gossip that would follow from finding out Sansa, who killed the king (as the public story goes), is headed to Winterfell with Littlefinger would make it certainly more likely to reach Cersei's ears than not. Certainly more likely than Tyrion finding out about Commander Mormont as he is under trial for murdering Joffrey. Hell if nothing else Varys informers would make sure it reached Cersei to take down Littlefinger. Besides Cersei required ZERO proof that Sansa is actually at Winterfell before agreeing with this plan, making sacrificing her to justify going to war in the north even less necessary.

Isn't Mormont killed in S3E4? That would be looooong before the Purple Wedding.

[Saturno]

I believe Littlefinger already knew about Kevan and Jaime's abscences when talking to Cersei, mentioning their names only as smoke to finally list himself as a candidate.

[dielsis]

I believe Littlefinger already knew about Kevan and Jaime's abscences when talking to Cersei, mentioning their names only as smoke to finally list himself as a candidate.

Exactly. Those were leading questions. Someone else pointed out how Cersei needed zero evidence of Sansa to act, Littlefinger noticed and leapt.

[Uldra I]

Here are a few assumptions about Littlefinger:

1. He believes he has the Vale on his side

2. He makes an ally with the Boltons in case they win by giving them Sansa

3. He originally had no plans to leave Sansa but once Cersei summoned him he had to revise his plans. He had already promised Sansa to the Boltons by the time he got the letter and he is simply hoping that Sansa can manage on her own

4. He has no intention of sending the Vale to the North, that was his third suggestion after Kevan and Jaime to not lose face in front of Cersei

5. He means to backstab Cersei

6. He thinks Sansa will still be on his side once he returns to Winterfell

In reality I think he will be betrayed by both the Vale and Sansa as they will never forgive him for what he started when he promised Sansa to Ramsay. And if Stannis wins over Winterfell he will thus have no allies at all north of King's Landing. Truly, his only hope is that the Boltons survive but then he will never get to keep Sansa.

:agree:

Just read a EW interview where Cogman confirmed that LF did not know what a monster Ramsay is. Referring to the Snow Castle foreshadowing, I think the head of the giant will be impaled on the walls of Winterfell at some point. Since LF didn't warn Sansa about what a monster Ramsay is, she would likely hold him responsible for the abuse she experiences at Ramsay's hands. Perhaps Sansa will believe that LF knew about Ramsay all along, and fed her to the demon of Bolton without conscience. We may still see a Titan (giant) of Braavos' (LF) head impaled at WF.

[jbob]

I thought that maybe LF would take the Arnolf Karstark role. And it's Sansa who tells Stannis about it. Though I don't think that could work all that well.

I do think LF's plan in the show works though. I honestly do not believe book LF has any altruistic motions and wants Sansa to become all powerful. That doesn't make any sense to me. That's kind of part of the reason I like LF's plan here.

[hallam]

Well, if he has a royal decree deposing Bolton, he can't return to Winterfell or Sansa except at the head of an army, right? And Sansa will know she was totally played at that point too, and left to her tormentors while LF was building his empire further.

If only Arya was around to mete out some justice.

Oh you think its a coincidence GRRM has sent her to Bravos? He knows that if he lets Arya back in the 7Ks he is going to run out of characters in a week.

Best leave her where she is for now practicing her "hobby" till the white walkers arrive.

[hallam]

Given the showrunners statement that Littlefinger is ignorant of Ramsay, I still am holding out the possibilty that the wedding was sped up by the Boltons without the knowledge of Littlefinger. I am curious as to what his reaction towards the Boltons will be and in particular, Ramsay if and when he finds out what exactly happened to Sansa last night. I understand he wants power but if he gives one shred of love, caring for Sansa, it will be interesting to see what he does.

Roose certainly made it appear that he didn't trust LF. I would have imagined that the wedding would be a cause to bring all the Northern lords on side. But of course Roose knows Stannis is about to march.

But more generally, no, LF does not care for Sansa it is purely about the power.

Let's face it, if Littlefinger is to have an ounce of credibility as an intelligent schemer, he knew what would happen to Sansa.

But he isn't half as good at the game as he imagines himself to be.

[Ted Chang]

Roose certainly made it appear that he didn't trust LF. I would have imagined that the wedding would be a cause to bring all the Northern lords on side. But of course Roose knows Stannis is about to march.

But more generally, no, LF does not care for Sansa it is purely about the power.

But he isn't half as good at the game as he imagines himself to be.

He's done pretty well for an upstart, I'd suggest.

[Fearodh]

I LOVED LF scene with Cersei, he is the smartest schemer in the show.

In the books his genius is only rivaled by Varys, who in the show could not stop Jorah from walking away with his priced Tyrion.

I think he will last for quite some time, he has all the options open.

Might be the white walkers spill trouble for him down the line. But for the near future, LF sits in a good spot.

[Low Sparrow]

Littlefinger's arc will take him wherever D&D's missing continuity person lets it chance into. He'll forget what he said the week before, while throwing the necklace which even a buffoon like Meron Trant would take to every Jewler in King's Landing and find out who made it, and thus, who ordered it into a boat he forgets to burn. Littlefinger's arc no longer has to make any sense, because the character himself no longer makes any sense.

[abandonship]

I'm curious to see LF's reaction to the whole Ramsay/Sansa debacle. I even have a feeling Ramsay would even throw what he is doing at Littlefingers face just to see how he reacts, especially after the scene they had, with Ramsay acting like the sweetest person in the universe. I'm also curious to see how Sansa and LF get along after this. I still dont understand how the Vale would follow him to the North or how he will successfully become warden of the North. Isn't he already technically warden of the East? I feel like show LF is getting a little sloppy.

[rayarts]

Yeah, I am also curious how he will react to the Ramsay/Sansa thing, but I am not sure whether he will reach

WF in time before Stannis and/or the candle is lit. The show is all over the place right now so it could go either way

[Stonehearted Snake]

I don't think that LF's desire/love for Sansa is either/or to his desire/love for power. I think that he has priorities and the #1 priority is power and #2 is Sansa. Does that mean he will use Sansa to gain power? Sure but I don't think he would completely toss her to the dogs like the Boltons if he really knew what Ramsay was (which we know he didn't from interviews with Cogman). He wouldn't have gone to all the trouble and risk to rescue her if his only motivation was power. He cares for her. Just not as much as power.

[Masha]

Yeah, I am also curious how he will react to the Ramsay/Sansa thing, but I am not sure whether he will reach

WF in time before Stannis and/or the candle is lit. The show is all over the place right now so it could go either way

I am more curious on how Sansa will react to LF now. Will she ignore what happened and just be her old "sassy" Sansa to her and let him talk her down or more like full of rage towards him for putting her in this situation.

[Stonehearted Snake]

I am more curious on how Sansa will react to LF now. Will she ignore what happened and just be her old "sassy" Sansa to her and let him talk her down or more like full of rage towards him for putting her in this situation.

Someone posted a few pages back that there is a little mutual love interest developing. I see that too. Not a whole lot but it isn't out of the realm of possibility that feelings could develop on Sansa's end. (Though I definitely subscribe to the theory that she will take him "the giant" down in the end)

[TheCasualObserver]

I LOVED LF scene with Cersei, he is the smartest schemer in the show.

In the books his genius is only rivaled by Varys, who in the show could not stop Jorah from walking away with his priced Tyrion.

I think he will last for quite some time, he has all the options open.

Might be the white walkers spill trouble for him down the line. But for the near future, LF sits in a good spot.

A question then: why did he go to KL at all? In the event, Cersei simply wanted to ask if the Knights of the Vale would support the Iron throne. It's not as if LF was going to say no and lose a potential ally for no reason, but going in person seems like an incredible risk if she doubted his loyalty (with the summons alone being testament to the fact that she was unsure about him). On top of that, it's not as if Cersei is actually giving him anything; he's conquering the North with his own strength with virtually no royal oversight at all.

Additionally, once he outlines his plan to Cersei, what would he have done if she'd said no? It effectively places him as the foremost peer in no less than three of the seven kingdoms: he has harrenhal, is guardian to Robin Arryn and is now asking to be named Warden of the North. Since Cersei acknowledges that she couldn't take the North with her own power, this would make LF alone substantially stronger than what the forces of the crown are currently able to field. I get that LF presents himself as a minor player who is everybody's friend, but willfully allowing him to expand his power base to such an extent when he has no connection to the crown and will take the North under his own initiative. It just strikes me as bizarre that the paranoid and power hungry Cersei would give permission without any caveats at all other than Sansa Stark's head. I guess it's easy being a master political manipulator when everybody just agrees to do as you say, including Sansa, the Boltons and Cersei.

[Lord Godric]

A question then: why did he go to KL at all? In the event, Cersei simply wanted to ask if the Knights of the Vale would support the Iron throne. It's not as if LF was going to say no and lose a potential ally for no reason, but going in person seems like an incredible risk if she doubted his loyalty (with the summons alone being testament to the fact that she was unsure about him). On top of that, it's not as if Cersei is actually giving him anything; he's conquering the North with his own strength with virtually no royal oversight at all.

Why *did* he get summoned in the first place? That scene confused me so much. Cersei asks him if the lords of the Vale will support Tommen and then asks him if that was all he had to discuss with her. I was so perplexed and thought "uhhh..Cersei, you made him come all the way to the city. Is that all you had to discuss with him?"