acosta Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 Given the showrunners statement that Littlefinger is ignorant of Ramsay, I still am holding out the possibilty that the wedding was sped up by the Boltons without the knowledge of Littlefinger. I am curious as to what his reaction towards the Boltons will be and in particular, Ramsay if and when he finds out what exactly happened to Sansa last night. I understand he wants power but if he gives one shred of love, caring for Sansa, it will be interesting to see what he does. I'm pretty certain he was planning to kill the Boltons anyway. He just needed a large army to do that, which required that 1) he find a way to convince the Boltons to let a large army pass Moat Cailin, and 2) trick Cersei into thinking a large army leaving the Vale to go North was working for her and not against her. He probably has at least a tiny bit of actual affection for Sansa, but I don't see that being the driving force behind him deciding to kill Ramsay. He was going to do it anyway, if Ramsay even lasts long enough and Stannis doesn't kill him first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GtrGbln Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 I guess the plan sort of works if you squint and tilt your head a bit, but I still have lots of questions. As guardian to Robin Arryn and Lord of Harrenhal, LF already has potentially two Kingdoms under his thumb. I don't care how mad Cersei is or how agreeable LF might seem, nobody will sign off on a plan which gives someone control of the North as well. Also, why does LF need to tell Cersei he is doing this at all, least of all in person? His troops will be from the Vale, not the crownlands. His reasons for trying to take the North are sound and can be given in his absence, which would have saved LF in the event that Cersei said no here. But with that gone he wouldn't have needed to send Sansa at all, so I'm still not sure. Sending her to break the Bolton's from the lannisters was probably the cleverest thing he's done in seasons but the plan still relies on Stannis and Bolton bleeding each other just enough to be overcome, which seems to ascribe him incredible foresight. Foresight that was totally lacking when he didn't investigate the character of Ramsay at all. Really I thought it was pretty obvious that he's taking Sansa out of the equation entirely. Now that he has a royal mandate naming him Warden of the North what does he need her for? He's not stupid despite recent popular opinion, he just sold her to the Boltons in what universe do you imagine he's dim enough to think she'd be grateful? No given the chance she'll kill him for this and he knows it. Everyone assumed his plan was to make Sansa marry him and to wield power over the North through her but it turns out it wasn't. With this plan he doesn't need to. You can call it stupid all you want but it sounds like the right play to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NymeriaWarriorQueen Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 Littlefinger paints such a nice and tidy conclusion for him to grab power. What if the show decides to bring back the IRONBORN and have them reavimg and conquering the Shield Islands and then up the Manderly to Oldtown and Highgarden? They may even have some ships in the Stepstones. Mace Tyrell and his bannerman Randyl Tarley have troops as well. The Redwynes have ships. The Dornishman may invade and probably could ally with.Daenerys,The Houses and mountain clans of the North have not forgotten about their kinsfolk who were slaughtered at the Red Wedding. That's why we keep hearing The North Remembers. I don't think even Sansa marrying a Bolton would necessarily assure their loyalty to Ramsay and Roose. If the Wyman Manderly S/L in the book is any indication.....then they Will turn on Roose. Of course, they may not follow Stannis either until Jon Snow heads towards WF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiera Stark Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 Hence..., "Littlefinger". :Dsneaky pun my friend ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerJeremiahLouistark Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 He is playing Cersei. The whole thing about him being Warden of the North is only if Stannis doesn't win. If Stannis wins, Sansa is Wardeness of the North and he comes back and marries her and is basically Warden of the North anyway, he's just covering his ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kinkslayer Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 LF can rule the 7K as hand of the king. Under no possible combination of events he will become king without having every lordy Lord rising up in rebellion against him. Cersei may make LF hand of the king and no one else will, so why is it in LF best self-interest to remove Cersei from the game? (other than because he told Sansa he would do so) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maester Barth Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 The one redeeming quality of Littilefinger is his love of Catelyn and Sansa. I believe viewers underestimate the truth behind his conspiracy to kill Joffrey being motivated largely by the Red Wedding. Remember, nothing in the books or show indicates he was party to the plan between Tywin, Bolton, and the Freys. His endgame is to marry Sansa by taking the North. Cersei will know he's loyal when he "returns Sansa's head on a spike." LF is not going to do that. He also doesn't want to rape Sansa. I think he seriously wants her love, the one thing he was never able to get from Catelynn. Think of how deep his love for her went? After Ned died, he asked her to marry him. We've also seen that he's never actually slept with a whore. I think that will be a big reveal in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tadco26 Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 That would be more convincing if he didn't give Sansa to a psychopath, and the excuse of "not knowing" only means he didn't' make even the most rudimentary attempt to find out before agreeing to the marriage. It wasn't exactly a secret. Besides it was completely unnecessary. He could have sent a whore to Winterfell or no one at all in Sansa's place and lied to Cersei about the Boltons and gotten to the same spot. It's not like Cersei asked for any proof before agreeing to his plan, and if she had, what could he give her? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 Why would the Yohn Royce and the Vale Lords help Littlefinger? He revealed Sansa to them. They know who she is. And they pledged their help. Then Littlefinger sold her to the Boltons (for what, I have no idea), the very family who betrayed the Starks and are allied with the Lannisters. It seems to me the likely scenario is that Yohn Royce, who already has Robin Arryn, will cut his head off, and then perhaps aid Sansa at Winterfell. Or bend the knee to Stannis, who has already liberated her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pashernate Reader Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 I think LF is climbing "the laddah" step by step. What he told Cersei might actually be his plan, it would not be the first time he is using his relationship to the Lannisters to get ahead.Once he is Warden of the North though, it's pretty obvious that he does not plan to stop there.I don't think he cares all that much for Sansa, but who knows... Warden of the North, Lord Paramount of the Trident, Lord Protector of the Vale...might as well just crown him already if that happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonInVa Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 Well, if he has a royal decree deposing Bolton, he can't return to Winterfell or Sansa except at the head of an army, right? And Sansa will know she was totally played at that point too, and left to her tormentors while LF was building his empire further. If only Arya was around to mete out some justice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross2013 Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 The one redeeming quality of Littilefinger is his love of Catelyn and Sansa.... I'm sorry, I just can't buy that. In fact, the only way I think LF's actions make any sense, is if his claims of love for Catelyn and Sansa were all BS from the start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerJeremiahLouistark Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 I'm sorry, I just can't buy that. In fact, the only way I think LF's actions make any sense, is if his claims of love for Catelyn and Sansa were all BS from the start. Yeah I think the only love Littlefinger has is for himself. If he loved Catelyn he would have masterminded her husband's demise. Ned Stark never did anything to Littlefinger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sb.69 Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 LF's game has always been making feel like he's on your side, and before you know it, he sold you out - the Starks (Ned, Cat, and now Sansa), Lysa... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerDoublePost Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 Does a character need to have a redeeming quality? I think not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerJeremiahLouistark Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 Does a character need to have a redeeming quality? I think not.You'd think correct. Ramsay has none, Roose has none, Tywin had none, Joffrey had none, Walder Frey, nope none....there are plenty of characters with no redeeming qualities, and intelligence isn't a redeeming quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince of the North Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 Why would the Yohn Royce and the Vale Lords help Littlefinger? He revealed Sansa to them. They know who she is. And they pledged their help. Then Littlefinger sold her to the Boltons (for what, I have no idea), the very family who betrayed the Starks and are allied with the Lannisters. It seems to me the likely scenario is that Yohn Royce, who already has Robin Arryn, will cut his head off, and then perhaps aid Sansa at Winterfell. Or bend the knee to Stannis, who has already liberated her. Completely agreed. It takes quite a bit more than Littlefinger simply declaring to Roose that "the Vale is his" for it to actually make sense. Even allowing that Sweetrobin really is loyal to Littlefinger he can't rule in his own right yet (that's why he was dropped off with the Royces) so it's really about why Bronze Yohn would ever be loyal to Littlefinger? And, of course, the answer is...he wouldn't :dunno: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Green Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 Really I thought it was pretty obvious that he's taking Sansa out of the equation entirely. Now that he has a royal mandate naming him Warden of the North what does he need her for? Roose Bolton has a royal mandate naming him Warden of the North. Littlefinger has even less support in the North than Bolton does. Sansa would be essential for any permanent political establishment there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerJeremiahLouistark Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 He needs a Stark the same way Stannis and Roose do, for northern support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
of man and wolf Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 He is playing Cersei. The whole thing about him being Warden of the North is only if Stannis doesn't win. If Stannis wins, Sansa is Wardeness of the North and he comes back and marries her and is basically Warden of the North anyway, he's just covering his ass. Why would Sansa decide to marry him if Stannis were to win? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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