Illyrio's Fingers

[Blind Beth the Cat Lady]

The purpose of this post is to show that Illyrio’s endgame has nothing to do with who sits the Iron Throne. We know that co-conspirator Varys is working to put Aegon on the throne because he believes the boy is the best possible ruler for Westeros--and some of us think that Varys is also trying to instate a Blackfyre regime. But neither of these goals make sense for Illyrio. Even if the Aegon Blackfyre theory is true, Illyrio is not himself a Blackfyre. Further, he does not trouble himself with small-fry events such as which sigil “beast” is on the Iron Throne. Illyrio hunts bigger game than that, and his concern with Aegon and Danaerys must be related to something larger than Westerosi politics.

***

As he was sucking the meat off the bones of his quail, he asked Illyrio about the morning’s summons. The fat man shrugged. “There are troubles in the east. Astapor has fallen, and Meereen. Ghiscari slave cities that were old when the world was young.” The suckling pig was carved. Illyrio reached for a piece of the crackling, dipped it in a plum sauce, and ate it with his fingers.

“Slaver’s Bay is a long way from Pentos.” Tyrion speared a goose liver on the point of his knife. No man is as cursed as the kinslayer, he mused, but I could learn to like this hell.

“This is so,” Illyrio agreed, “but the world is one great web, and a man dare not touch a single strand lest all the others tremble. More wine?”

• Here we see that Illyrio has a very global view of politics. He mentions not daring to touch a strand, but we know for a fact this is BS (see the guest list for Dany’s wedding in GoT). If the world is a great web, Illyrio strums it like a harp. And he always keeps his eye on the big picture. Unlike Varys, who seems totally focused on the fate of Westeros, Illyrio’s concern is for events with global implications.
  
• This makes a lot of sense given his wide trading network and the wealth it has provided him. We have a bit of a chicken-egg conundrum: Did Illyrio become interested in global events because of his “cheese mongering,” or did he take up international trade because of his interest in global events? Either way, we can be sure that Illyrio does indeed think globally.
  

***

The fat man’s eyes glittered like the gemstones on his fingers.

“There are those in Westeros who would say that killing Lord Lannister was merely a good beginning.”

“They had best not say it in my sister’s hearing, or they will find themselves short a tongue.” The dwarf tore a loaf of bread in half. “And you had best be careful what you say of my family, magister. Kinslayer or no, I am a lion still.”

That seemed to amuse the lord of cheese to no end. He slapped a meaty thigh and said, “You Westerosi are all the same. You sew some beast upon a scrap of silk and suddenly you are all lions or dragons or eagles. I can take you to a real lion, my little friend. The prince keeps a pride in his menagerie. Would you like to share a cage with them?”

• This doesn’t sound like Illyrio cares much what house is in charge of Westeros. Yet he’s supporting Aegon for king, ostensibly because he is a Targaryen or perhaps (more likely IMO) because Aegon is Illyrio’s son and a Blackfyre through his beloved mother Serra. Really every theory of who Aegon really is hinges on what house he is really from and presumes that he matters because of his real or fake heritage. Even if you think he is just the son of Illyrio and a random Lyseni woman who happens to have Targ coloring and is thus of completely common blood, he’s still being used by Varys to represent either House Targaryen or Blackfyre. Every possible interpretation of Aegon and why he’s being supported by Illyrio and Varys revolves around Westerosi house politics. Yet Illyrio doesn’t seem to care about Westerosi houses. So what gives?
  
• Really the only way this whole Aegon/fAegon thing makes any sense from Illyrio’s point of view is if there is more to the story than just Westerosi politics. Illyrio must have some larger plan to justify all this effort.
  
• Note the eyes glittering like his gemstones. I think this link between the proverbial windows of his soul and his gemstones is a hint that we can, in fact, learn about his motives by analyzing his rings.
  

***

“Not Stannis. Nor Myrcella.” The yellow smile widened “Another. Stronger than Tommen, gentler than Stannis, with a better claim than the girl Myrcella. A savior come from across the sea to bind up the wounds of Westeros.”

“Fine words.” Tyrion was unimpressed. “Words are wind. Who is this bloody savior?”

“A dragon.” The cheesemonger saw the look on his face at that, and laughed. “A dragon with three heads.”

• Wait a second....wasn’t Illyrio just ridiculing sigils? And now he’s talking about a savior for Westeros in terms of the Targaryen sigil? Even if he means a black dragon on red, it’s still a sigil, and the effects are still limited to Westeros.
  
• Based on what we know of Illyrio, he has a very global viewpoint and no interest in sigils. So why is he supporting Dany OR Aegon based on their Targ/Blackfyre heritage?
  
• It doesn’t make sense. There must be more to it than that. Something big that includes but is not limited to the three-headed dragon sigil. Hey, we know someone else who thought along those lines--Rhaegar. He was interested in two prophecy catchphrases--”the prince that was promised” and “the dragon has three heads”. He also clearly thought the two ideas were related, since he believed his son Aegon to be the PtwP *and* believed he must have two more children to fill out the three heads. It would seem that something about the three-headed dragon ties into something larger than just the Targaryen family and their bastard offshoots.
  
• This in itself makes a lot of sense, considering that the Targ sigil is not something they showed up in Westeros with. Aegon the Conqueror took the three-headed dragon as his sigil to fit into the culture of Westeros. As Ben Plumm would say “if a man wants to be king o’ the rabbits, he best wear floppy ears.” The dragon sigil was Aegon the Conqueror's floppy ears. Since the rest of the Valyrian dragon riders had gone up in smoke, it’s quite possible Aegon and his sisters were co-opting something for their family that had previously had a wider application. It’s also possible that Aegon saw himself as fulfilling the prophecy of the PtwP and the three-headed dragon. You could see why he might think that way. He and his sisters were three dragon riders, and his main motivation for conquering Westeros seemed to be stopping the inter-kingdom warfare that was wreaking so much havoc. Perhaps he saw himself as a savior, a promised prince, and that’s why he took the 3-headed dragon sigil. But while Aegon was certainly a game-changer for Westeros, the PtwP prophecy seems to be a lot bigger than Westeros, and seems likely to apply to something bigger than domestic politics and wars of petty kings.
  
• The three-headed dragon is actually a symbol for something much larger than the Targaryen or Blackfyre family lines. Otherwise Illyrio wouldn’t care.
  

So we’re back to the million-dollar question: What IS Illyrio up to? What does he care about, besides food and money?

To answer that, I think we should take a close look at his fingers.

****

Characters in ASOIAF sometimes say that Illyrio has his fingers in many pies. And many of us readers would love to know what all those pies are. Illyrio is one of the most mysterious yet potentially most influential characters in the series, and while we know a couple of his pies—Aegon, Danaerys, Varys—are there others we don’t know about yet?

The thing about sticking your finger in a pie is that it leaves a mark. So let’s take a look at Illyrio’s fingers and see if we can find traces of what he’s up to.

Illyrio was reclining on a padded couch, gobbling hot peppers and pearl onions from a wooden bowl. His brow was dotted with beads of sweat, his pig’s eyes shining above his fat cheeks. Jewels danced when he moved his hands; onyx and opal, tiger’s eye and tourmaline, ruby, amethyst, sapphire, emerald jet, and jade, a black diamond, and a green pearl. I could live for years on his rings, Tyrion mused, though I’d need a cleaver to claim them.

• The fact that we get such a comprehensive list of rings is interesting in itself. Usually such complete detail turns out to be significant in some way. The clothes or jewelry in question say something about the character. GRRM is a man of many words, but he doesn’t waste them. If all we needed to know from this description is that Illyrio is rich and fat, that could be accomplished more simply.
  

• I think there are actually many things we can learn from this passage. The first is sort of obvious and sort of not: Illyrio is fat. He’s famous for it. And the reason he’s fat cannot be attributed to a medical condition, as in the case of the Yellow Whale, or as misdirection to make people underestimate him, as with Lord Manderly. It’s quite straightforward: he’s fat because he’s constantly eating decadent food and drinking expensive wine. Illyrio is the sort of man who wants it all. Wealthy, luxury, power, women, food, drink. That recalls King Robert to some degree, but Illyrio’s weapon was the fencing blade, not the war hammer. He is quick and clever, relying on wits, ready movement, skill, and strategy rather than brute strength.
  

• Illyrio’s weight and constant eating are symbols of his character: he consumes all, taking in everything around him, especially exotic delicacies. I think this may apply to knowledge as well as food. Illyrio wants to know everything and consumes as much information as possible, especially exotic arcana.
  

• Tyrion notes he would need a cleaver to take the rings off Illyrio’s hands. On first reading I thought this was just re-emphasis of the man’s great girth. But shouldn’t someone like Illyrio be able to get his rings sized properly, whatever the size? In the same passage Tyrion notes that Illyrio’s furniture has been specially designed for his great size and weight; why wouldn’t he also have his rings specially enlarged? This may imply that Illyrio has worn these specific rings since he was younger and thinner, which would be many years; that would imply that these rings are significant in some way beyond decoration or showing off wealth.
  

I believe his rings represent his “pies” or plots. Interestingly, almost all of the gemstones on his finger relate to gemstones associated with the Great Empire of the Dawn.

Edit: I withdraw my statement that we "know" Varys wants the best possible ruler for Westeros. That is an assumption based on things he's said in questionable circumstances, as a couple of commenters have pointed out. But he's certainly supporting (f)Aegon and his focus is on Westeros rather than the known world.

[Blind Beth the Cat Lady]

Green Pearl -

Connection to Illyrio: An outfit of cloth-of-gold, green pearl, and jade is used to show the legitimacy of the ultimate ruler of Yi Ti. Yi Ti has been in the midst of a power struggle for some time—and it was the location of the original Great Empire of the Dawn, home of the Amethyst Empress and Bloodstone Emperor.

We know how much Illyrio loves to play political games, and we know that he trades far and wide. If he can get green pearls and jade from Yi Ti, why not legends of the gemstone emperors as well?

Linked to a gemstone emperor? Yes.

Jade -

Connection to Illyrio: He trades heavily in the Jade Sea.

Linked to a gemstone Emperor? Yes.

Tourmaline –

Connection to Illyrio: The only other significant reference to tourmaline is the Tourmaline Brotherhood. We know nothing about them other than the fact that they gave Dany a lavish dragon crown and wanted her to leave Qarth, unharmed but ASAP. If they are connected to Illyrio and knew he was interested in dragons, they may have been trying to send her back to him.

Linked to a gemstone emperor? Yes.

Likely the Tourmaline Brotherhood is a sect devoted to the teachings of the Tourmaline Emperor. Their hometown of Qarth is rife with Great Empire of the Dawn references, so it makes as much sense as anything else.

Extra Fun Trivia: I looked up real-life properties of tourmaline to get some possible insight, and I found something quite interesting: tourmaline will first attract and then repel hot ash. Because electricity. (This is a real fact but I don’t understand science well enough to give a good explanation here.) It’s pretty easy to mentally link hot ash with fire magic, so perhaps the Tourmaline Brotherhood were once practitioners of fire magic but got burned (hahahaha), and now want nothing to do with it.

Onyx –

Connection to Illyrio: Drogo. His eyes are twice described as being like onyx, and they are the first mention of onxy in the series. Most of the other references pertain to eyes looking like onyx or onyx being used for the eyes of a carved figure.

Drogo and the black-eyed Dothraki in general were clearly an important part of Illyrio’s plan with Dany. The constant menace of the horse lords to the free cities would be a good motivation for Illyrio to keep tabs on and manipulate them as much as possible, even without the AER/BER plot.

With the AER/BER plot, though, it makes even more sense. If Dany were truly the AER, she would need a starter army. With the carefully-orchestrated wedding to Drogo, Illyrio gave her just that.

Linked to a gemstone emperor? Yes.

Extra Fun Trivia: Going a bit deeper with this symbolism, according to the Worldbook the Dothraki also have a strange connection to the Ifequevron/Children of the Forest and appear to be agents of nature against civilization. The timing of their rise as a people coincides with the destruction of Valyria, and their presence in Essos has retarded the advance of power and the pooling of resources between the Free Cities. It’s not a far stretch to see them as knowing or un-knowing agents of the Ifequevron that are meant to counter the destructive extremes of advance fire magic. Add to this:

- The Womb of the World seems likely to be what is left of the massive inland sea that was home to the Fisher Queens, who were apparently pretty wise and great and never blew up any celestial bodies or otherwise caused any mass destruction.

- The Dosh Khaleen seem to have quite legit prophetic powers, which puts them on a shortlist of groups that include Greenseers, Red Priests, the odd Targareyen/Blackfyre, and no one else.

If Dany is the AER, having the Dothraki as a prominent faction in her new empire might really help in terms of said empire not blowing up another moon or otherwise causing another Long Night. Let’s hope she gets some useful input from the Dosh Khaleen before heading back to Meereen to resume empire-building.

[Blind Beth the Cat Lady]

Topaz -

There was also a Topaz Emperor. But no topaz on Illyrio’s hands.

But, naturally, I have a theory for that, too.

I think that the lack of a topaz ring points to a past topaz ring that has been discarded because the plot has already been accomplished.

And I think that plot had to do with Dorne.

Topaz is most typically yellow. There are no mentions of topaz in Dorne, but they are strongly associated with…wait for it…lemons. Which are yellow.

Let’s just admit that whether or not the oft-harped-on lemon tree was in Dorne or Braavos or somewhere else, at a summer home of the Sealord of Braavos or something, lemons are only mentioned as coming from Dorne and scream “Dorne connection.” Even if Dany’s lemon tree was in Braavos, it must have originated in Dorne. The purpose of the tree, regardless of its specific location, is most likely to tip the careful reader off to Dany’s Dornish connection and potential Dornish support. I suspect it was given to Dany and Viserys as a symbol of the marriage pact.

But what has this to do with Illyrio?

Well, Doran and Illyrio have fundamentally different objectives concerning the last pair of full-blooded dragons. Doran wants Viserys to wed Arianne and take the Iron Throne, while Dany would presumably remain Princess of Dragonstone with no particular value other than as a marriage bargaining chip. But if Illyrio sees Dany as the main attraction and Viserys as so many packing peanuts, then there is a conflict. I’m not sure who Illyrio thinks is supposed to be the third head of the dragon, but it seems like he did not envision this for Viserys. In fact there’s no evidence anywhere that Illyrio ever saw Viserys as anything but an expendable little shit. Illyrio already had a potential Bloodstone Emperor Reborn, not to mention dragon head, in his own Blackfyre son, Aegon. And by all accounts Aegon is a generally much cooler person that Viserys so I think we can all understand Illyrio’s train of thought here.

But…consider what Illyrio must have done *to Viserys* in order to achieve his own ends.

Dany recalls being kicked out of the house with the red door when Ser Willam Darry died. Sharp-eyed fans who like counting a lot more than I do have noted that Darry’s death coincided with the death of the Sealord of Braavos, who was supposedly hiding them.

I submit that Illyrio, seeing a golden opportunity when Dany and Viserys were turned out of the house with the red door, (or perhaps having created his own opportunity via poison when the Sealord was about to die) sent agents to intercept and befriend Viserys. The agents planted rumors of hired knives in Visery's mind, and arranged for him and his sister to city-hop and be taken in by various people friendly to Illyrio. Thus Doran, who had much more limited ability to act in Essos than Illyrio did, eventually lost track of them. Probably after Tyrosh, since the last mention of him knowing where they are is Tyrosh.

I think Illyrio also influenced Mellario to prevent Arianne from going to Tyrosh as planned. I mean, if she really felt that strongly (“she threatened to harm herself”) about letting one of her children go to Essos, why did she herself go to Essos later on? I'm sure she was genuinely upset with and disillusioned by Doran, but the extreme of threatening to harm herself if he took one more child away from her doesn't fit with her own later abandonment. And Mellario was probably feeling friendlier towards a fellow Essosi than to her foreign husband by that point; I doubt Illyrio had much trouble bending her ear, getting her to simply be more adamant about her very real displeasure.

The fact that Doran had lost track of Viserys by the time Arianne came of age is implied by her statement that she is "three-and-twenty, for seven years a woman grown." Doran explains why she hasn't been wed to anyone else, but not why she wasn't already wed to Viserys. Both have been of age for some time. What was he waiting for? We have no explanation for why the Arianne + Viserys throne-taking plot never kicked off. I think it's because Doran didn't know where Viserys was.

"They had wandered since then, from Braavos to Myr, from Myr to Tyrosh, and on to Qohor and Volantis and Lys, never staying long in one place. Her brother would not allow it. The Usurper's hired knives were close behind them, he insisted, though Dany had never seen one."

According to Dany's memory, they traveled from Tyrosh (where Arianne was supposed to meet Viserys) to Qohor, which is far, strange, land-locked, and has no particular connection to Dorne.

"The realm will rise for its rightful king. Tyrell, Redwyne, Darry, Greyjoy, they have no more love for the Usurper than I do. The Dornishmen burn to avenge Elia and her children."

Viserys, who at this point is about 22, a man grown for several years by Westerosi standards, clearly has no inkling of a pact with Dorne. In fact he doesn't even take their allegiance for granted as he does with the first four houses, but has to offer reasoning for why they would rise for him after he invades with Dothraki.

Viserys and Arianne could have not only been told of their betrothal but acted on it years before the beginning of GoT. That's a lot of pointless waiting, even for Doran. Unless there was some event Doran was waiting for that we don't know about that was supposed to kick off the coup, it sounds like there was a major roadblock to the marriage. If nothing else, Arianne could have been encouraged to tour the Free Cities and quietly bumped into Viserys. The only reason that would be impossible would be if Doran had lost him. And the only way someone like Viserys evades someone like Doran is if he has some help.

"No doubt the Usurper would pay well for your head."

“Oh yes,” Viserys said darkly. “He has tried, Illyrio, I promise you that."

Yet Dany says she has never seen a hired knife.

Viserys is delusional, but not to the point of actually hallucinating, I don't think. And we know from Ned's POV that Robert never sent an assassin until the Vaes Dothrak incident. I would say that Viserys probably mistook the attentions of cut-purses or attempted muggers as hired knives, but in that case wouldn't Dany note that Viserys was probably exaggerating rather than saying that she has never seen a hired knife? If there had been some ambiguous incident I don't think we'd have such a stark difference in their reports--definite hired knives versus no known hired knives.

But it all makes sense if someone has been feeding Viserys false information to fuel his paranoia. Someone who wanted him to run from imaginary enemies and thus evade real friends, i.e. the Dornish.

Perhaps the same person who, in this very scene, is definitely fueling his paranoia. And smirking.

[Blind Beth the Cat Lady]

Opal

Connection to Illyrio: I think he sees himself as the Opal Emperor Reborn. Consider:

According to the Yi Ti legend, the father of the Amethyst Empress and the Bloodstone Emperor was the Opal Emporer.

In the text of ASOIAF, opals are always linked to royal gifts, most often gifts to Dany. Combined with the fact that Illyrio gave Dany the biggest and most important gift of her life, i.e. the three dragon eggs, this may be a sparkily, multi-colored little flag pointing us to the idea that Illyrio sees himself as a sort of Opal Emperor Reborn, biological father of the Bloodstone Emperor Reborn, father-figure to the Amethyst Empress Reborn, and benefactor of both. He did house Dany for a time, arrange her marriage, and protect her from (pre-marital) rape—all traditional fatherly actions.

“…let us hope your brother will be wise enough not to steal anything.” Ser Jorah wiped the grease off his mouth with the back of his hand and leaned close over the table. “He had planned to take your dragon’s eggs, until I warned him that I’d cut off his hand if he so much as touched them.”

For a moment Dany was so shocked she had no words. “My eggs..but they’re mine, Magister Illyrio gave them to me, a bride gift, why would Viserys want...they’re only stones…”

“The same could be said of rubies and diamonds and fire opals, Princess ….and dragon’s eggs are rarer by far.”

In this context the opals are being compared to dragon eggs, Illyrio’s greatest gift to Dany.

“Ghosts lined the hallways, dressed in the faded raiment of kings. In their hands were swords of pale fire. They had hair of silver and hair of gold and hair of platinum white, and their eyes were opal and amethyst, tourmaline and jade.”

This is from Dany’s “wake the dragon” dream during her miscarriage of Rhaego. When I first read it I assumed that the ghosts were Targaryens, but thanks to Durran Durrandon’s Amethyst Empress thread I realized that this doesn’t quite make sense due to the “swords of pale fire,” which Targaryens never had. DD points out that it’s more likely they are proto-Valerians, from the race that created the pale sword Dawn thousands of years ago. Since the jewels in their eyes line up well with the jewel emperors of the Great Empire of the Dawn, these jewel emperors are most likely who Dany is seeing. All four gems are not in chronological order, but it’s interesting to note that “opal and amethyst” are in the correct order--the Amethyst Empress was the daughter of the Opal Emperor. We know the Opal Emperor gave the Amethyst Empress the gift of life and, by apparently making her his heir over her brother, the gift of her crown.

“Aggo was back next. The southwest was barren and burnt, he swore. He had found the ruins of two more cities, smaller than Vaes Tolorro but otherwise the same. One was warded by a ring of skulls mounted on rusted iron spears, so he dared not enter, but he had explored the second for as long as he could. He showed Dany an iron bracelet he had found, set with an uncut fire opal the size of her thumb.”

- This opal bracelet is actually the first gift Dany receives as a ruler in her own right (not counting food).

“The Thirteen shall set a crown of black jade and fire opals upon her lovely head.”

- This is Xaro speaking of a theoretical gift the Thirteen will give Dany to signify her royalty.

“For the Mother of Dragons, no gift is too great.” Xaro was a languid, elegant man with a bald head and a great beak of a nose crusted rubies, opals, and flakes of jade.

- Xaro offers his hospitality as a gift to Danaerys, although she gets little else from him. But it is great hospitality, and Dany lives in luxury and relative (physical) safety during her stay in Qarth. And the giver of this hospitality fit for a queen not only wears opals but apparently has them embedded in the skin of his nose.

“The armor had been made of silver and gold, the knights of jade and beryl and onyx and tourmaline, of amber and opal and amethyst, each as tall as her little finger.”

- These are the soldiers that Xaro gives Dany. Yet again, we have opal mentioned in the context of a royal gift.

“”Seven faces for your grace’s Seven Kingdoms,” The bride’s father explained. He showed them how each face bore the sigil of one of the great houses: ruby lion, emerald rose, onyx stag, silver trout, blue jade falcon, opal sun, and pearl direwolf.”

- This is a royal wedding gift from Mace Tyrell to Joffrey. In fact it is the chalice Joffrey drinks poison wine from later.

“A groom led a fine grey mare out the stable door. On her back was mounted a skinny hollow-eyed girl wrapped in a heavy cloak. Grey, it was, like the dress beneath it, and trimmed with white satin. The clasp that pinned it to her breast was wrought in the shape of a wolf’s head with slitted opal eyes.”

- This is a description of Jeyne Pool, as seen by Jaime when she is leaving King’s Landing for Winterfell. Once more opals adorn a royal gift, since Jeyne/fArya is Queen Cercei’s gift to the Boltons.

The final mention of opals in the text is another description of Xaro:

“The pale, lean, hawk-faced man who shared her high table was resplendent in robes of maroon silk and cloth of gold, his bald head shining in the torchlight as he devoured a fig with small, precise, elegant bites. Opals winked along the nose of Xaro Xhoan Daxos as his head turned to follow the dancers.”

- There is no gift mentioned in this quote, however Xaro is in Meereen to offer Dany a gift. He offers her ships on the condition that she use them to sail to Westeros to take the Iron Throne.

So as we see, opals are always mentioned in the context of a royal gift, and these gifts are never straightforward. Additionally, most of them have strings attached, or secondary meanings or uses *which the giver is fully aware of.*

• The opal bracelet was from a place the Dothraki believed to be cursed.
  
• Xaro’s gifts always have conditions and strings attached.
  
• Joffrey’s cup, a gift from the Tyrells, would be used by the Tyrells to poison him later.
  
• Cercei and Roose both knew “Arya Stark” was a fake--and would be a plaything for Ramsay as well as a pawn to keep the North subject to Roose.
  

It would make sense for the dragon eggs (connected to opals in the first quote) to fit this pattern as well. Clearly the dragon eggs did end up having a use far beyond pretty status symbols for a Targaryen princess. All the other gifts associated with opals had greater potential *known to the giver.* I believe this is evidence that Illyrio knew the eggs might hatch, and that his opal ring symbolizes his view of himself as Dany/AER’s “father” due to his magical gift to her.

I also believe that Illyrio used the eggs to test Danaerys, to make sure she was the Amethyst Empress Reborn.

****

I find further evidence that the eggs were a test in this: all the rest of Dany’s bride gifts were either a test or a lesson—and this was the intention of the giver.

• The slave girls were meant to teach Dany to adapt to Dothraki life.
  
• Books from Jorah were meant to teach her about her Westerosi homeland.
  
• The bloodrider weapons were a test of her diplomacy, and her understanding of Dothraki ways.
  
• The horse was a test of her riding ability.
  

Let me re-emphasize that these things do not merely symbolize tests and lessons, they are *intended by the giver* as tests and lessons.

Once again, there is a pattern, and it makes sense for the dragon eggs gifted by Illyrio to fit the pattern. I see this as evidence that Illyrio knew the potential of the dragon eggs and suspected the potential of Dany, and he gave her the eggs to teach and test her magical potential—not just as a Targaryen, but as a blood of the dragon line that goes back much farther than House Targaryen or even the Freehold of Valyria. Illyrio hoped that Dany would bond with and hatch the eggs, and the end result of this was something important enough to devote years of planning and all the resources required to get three precious dragon eggs.

But then why would Illyrio arrange for Dany to go out on the Dothraki sea? Why not keep her and the eggs close?

“The dwarf studied the dish before him. The smell of garlic and butter had his mouth watering. Some part of him wanted those mushrooms, even knowing what they were. He was not brave enough to take cold steel to his own belly, but a bite of mushroom would not be so hard. “You mistake me,” he heard himself say.

“Is it so? I wonder. If you would sooner drown in wine, say the word and it shall be done, and quickly. Drowning cup by cup wastes time and wine both.”

“You mistake me,” Tyrion said again, more loudly. The buttered mushrooms glistened in the lamplight, dark and inviting. “I have no wish to die, I promise you. I have….” His voice trailed off into uncertainty. What do I have? A life to live? Work to do? Children to raise, lands to rule, a woman to love?

“You have nothing,” finished Magister Illyrio, “but we can change that.” He plucked a mushroom from the butter, and chewed it lustily. “Delicious.”

“The mushrooms are not poisoned.” Tyrion was irritated.

“No. Why should I wish you ill?” Magister Illyrio ate another.”

• Here we see that testing someone’s will to live is part of Illyrio’s MO.
  
• The reason Dany’s survival of the Dothraki sea was in question was not her delicate health but rather her strength of will. Did she have the will and courage to survive among the horselords? Illyrio doubted it, but he had to throw her in and see if she could swim. And by “swim” I mean “hatch dragon eggs rather than die of despair.”
  
• Illyrio tests Tyrion’s strength of will before explicitly involving him in his plans. It makes sense for him to have done the same with Dany.
  

[Blind Beth the Cat Lady]

Amethyst –

Connection to Illyrio: I believe that Illyrio believes that Daenaerys is the Amethyst Empress reborn. Durran Durrandon has theorized that she may be, and that Euron has come to that conclusion, in this excellent thread.

In short, the people of Yi Ti believe the Amethyst Empress, last in a line of gemstone rulers who governed the Great Empire of the Dawn, was betrayed and cast down by her brother the Bloodstone Emperor. A new coming of the Amethyst Empress might give her the opportunity to either defeat or work in harmony with her brother and set things right—or be betrayed again, bringing on another Long Night. I guess the desired outcome depends on who you are. (But I think Illyrio of the global trade network would likely prefer a GEotD renaissance rather than a collapse of civilization.)

Euron and Illyio have covered a lot of the same ground (one directly and one indirectly), both are quite eccentric, prone to world domination, and both seem attracted to mystical arcana.

If Illyrio has come to believe Dany is the AE reborn, it would go some way to explaining his seemingly conflicting actions towards her. If his primary focus was Aegon, why give Danaerys such lavish gifts as dragon eggs? Why send ships for her even after her Dothraki hoard connection was dead? What is up with the “years” of planning that Illyrio lets slip to Tyrion when discussing the Dany/Drogo wedding?

And if he’s supporting Dany, why send her out into the Dothraki sea to die?

Well, one must die if one is going to be reborn.

If Illyrio believes the AE/BE story must play out again, either in the same way or with a happier ending, it makes sense for him to support both Dany and Aegon. It also makes sense for him to give Dany dragon eggs and then send her out to die.

Illyrio famously sees no difference between a red dragon and a black dragon. I believe this is because all he cares about is the blood of the Great Empire of the Dawn, which was resurgent in Valyria. And as far as he knows, Dany and Aegon are the last living people with that blood. They are the last of the dragons, the only two left who might possibly fill the AE/BE roles. (Some fans believe this GEoD blood also runs in the Daynes and possibly the Starks as well, but there is no sign I can see of Illyrio thinking this.)

I doubt Varys shares or even knows about this belief. He does not seem to be into mystical stuff at all and sees Aegon as a social experiment to bring an ideal (non-magical) ruler to Westeros.

Black Diamond –

Connection to Illyrio: Dragons.

When Tyrion recalls the dragon skulls kept under the Red Keep, he notes:

“The teeth were long, curving blades of black diamond. The flame of the torch was nothing to them; they had bathed in the heat of much greater fires.”

Keep in mind that Illyrio was seen in the dragon skull storage room by Arya in Game of Thrones. He has certainly had the opportunity to note that dragon teeth resemble black diamond. The deeper meaning is a little murky, though. I think that it “simply” indicates a plot to bring back dragons—red and black, symbolic, literal, and prophetic.

Linked to a gemstone emperor? No, but the Great Empire of the Dawn very likely controlled some dragons, given that they most likely built the fused stone Five Forts.

Extra Fun Thought: Is Illyrio’s ring really black diamond, or is it an actual piece of dragon tooth?

Ruby –

Connection to Illyrio: Priests of R’hllor. Red Priests are linked to rubies through Melisandre, but more than that they are called Red Priests and they serve a Red God and they prophesy with fire and use blood sacrifice. Mel’s ruby puts a nice bow on it for us, but the symbolism and imagery of a R’hllor-ruby connection is strong even without that.

Not only are the Red Priests of Volantis totally pro-Dany, Illyrio has a lot of contact with Red Preists and their home base, Volantis. (Some fans believe that Red Priests are based in Asshai, but my understanding is that currently Red Priests are based in Volantis with a thriving study-abroad program in Asshai.) There are Red Priests chanting within earshot of Illyio’s manse in GoT Dany I, and an enormous Red Priest at Dany’s wedding to Drogo. The Illyrio-Dany-Red Priest triangle connection is strong. It seems probable that either Illyrio convinced the Red Priests of Dany’s mystical significance or (more likely IMO) that Red Priest prophecies convinced Illyrio of the same.

Linked to a gemstone emperor? No and yes. There was no one called the Ruby Emperor, but there was a Bloodstone Emperor, and a bloodstone makes sense as a ruby corrupted by dark magic, just as the BSE was corrupted by dark magic.

Sapphire –

Connection to Illyrio: His wife, Serra from Lys, blue eyed mother of Aegon, and probably sister of his buddy Varys. Seems fitting that she might get her own gem.

Linked to a gemstone Emperor? No, but. I’ve been looking at this and comparing that, and I strongly suspect that there was a person who might have been the Sapphire Emperor. Check out my next post, “A God-King by Any Other Name” if you want to read more.

Fun Extra Trivia: There are lots of blue eyes in Lys in general. Kind of interesting, really, that it’s specifically blue eyes, since if it was just Valyrian features holding out years later you’d think it would be blue/violet/lilac/ect. Were blue eyes particularly prized by Valyrians for some reason?

Lys may also be important, in general and to Illyrio in particular, because of its great Red Temple. This is the only other “great” Red Temple mentioned besides the one in Volantis. Illyrio follows R’hllor and is thick with the Red Priests. Due to differences in philosophy demonstrated by Melisandre versus Moqorro, it’s likely that Mel is part of the Lysene order (thanks, Radio Westeros, for putting that together for me).

Tiger’s Eye –

Connection to Illyrio: The Volantene tigers.

Searching the books for references to tigers, I realized that it’s actually quite likely that Illyrio is fixing the Volantene election in favor of the war-loving Tiger faction. The only other references to tigers in the book are references to the actual animal or its skins (most notably Illyrio’s tiger skins in the ship he sent for Daenaerys). None of them seemed to be connected to anything larger. But the references to Volantene Tigers gave me some interesting political tidbits about Volantis:

- Tigers were the dominant faction in Volantis’s early independent years, during the Century of Blood after Valyria fell.

- Volantis was not defeated until it tried to “swallow” Tyrosh and thus provoked both Pentos and the Storm Lords of Westeros. This conflict broke the power of the Tigers and the peaceful Elephant faction has held sway ever since.

- An election is upcoming. Volantis is ruled by three elected triarchs.

Triarch #1, an Elephant, has openly been bought by Yunkai. This might mean that a) he will side with Tiger sentiments to join the Yunkai against Dany or b ) he will be condemned for corruption and be replaced by a Tiger.

Triarch #2 is “old and toothless, but still a Tiger.”

Triarch #3 is widely presumed to be on his way out. It seems the situation is ripe for interference. And if you wanted to fix an election in Essos, who better to be than Illyrio.

But why would he want Volantis warring against Danaerys? Well, I believe he has been engineering a war between Dany and Volantis because this conflict is meant to be Aegon’s “Dothraki Sea”, i.e. the trial from which he will emerge far more powerful, with a dragon.

Tyrion was right to say that Aegon showing up with no credentials and proposing to Dany was a fool’s errand. I don’t think that was Illyrio’s real plan. I think Illyrio wanted Aegon in the middle of Dany’s confrontation with Volantis, and he wanted him to take a dragon. Surely Dany would be far more amenable to a marriage proposal from dragon-back.

Hey, sending Dany off with the Dothraki and three dragon eggs was WAY crazier than that, and it totally worked out. So why not?

Linked to a gemstone emperor? No, but I strongly suspect that, on a deeper symbolic level, tiger’s eye represents the Children of the Forest, who notably have eyes like cats. I think their earth magic played a role in the coming of the Long Night and in the War for the Dawn, and that in fact the “tiger woman” that the Bloodstone Emperor took to bride was in fact a Child of the Forest.

VERY IMPORTANT EDIT: All credit for this very important connection goes to Lucifer Means Lightbringer. I'll expound on its importance in my next post.

Fun Extra Tivia: Tiger’s eye also has the appearance of striations in shades of brown, very much evocative of layers of stone and sediment in cut-away images of the earth’s layers. IMO this gives it an even stronger symbolic connection to earth magic.

Emerald –

Connection to Illyrio: Cercei and the Lannisters. The Queen Regent frequently wears large emeralds, in necklaces, rings, and belts. Cercei, Jaime, and Tywin all have green eyes; Tyrion has one green and one black eye. We already know the Illyrio/Varys team is supporting Cercei, for now, because they see her as the weakest possible ruler and thus an easy knockout for Aegon (and Dany, according to the original plan). Varys took out the the two men guarding Cercei’s metaphorical cage, so once Robert Strong almost inevitably defeats the Faith’s opponents, Cercei is set to potentially gain back quite a bit of power as Queen Regent. It’s also not unlikely that Margarey will be found guilty in her trial, effectively axing the Lannister/Tyrell alliance. Cercei is ripe for being deposed, and that will play nicely into Illyrio’s plans for Dany and Aegon

Linked to a gemstone emperor? No and yes. I believe that Garth the Green, legendary god-king of the Reach, was actually a “lost” GEotD royal, who would have been the Emerald Emperor had he not gone to Westeros. See my “God-King by Any Other Name” post for more on that.

Jet –

Connection to Illyrio: The Summer Isles. Moqorro, Alayaya, and Kojjo Mo are all described as jet-black (unlike other SI characters who are described as the color of teak). This is the most consistent reference for jet. We’ve heard of political unrest in the Summer Isles, we’ve seen Summer Islanders as guests of Illyrio at Dany’s wedding, and we know that Quhuru Mo, the captain of the Cinnamon Wind (and father of Kojjo), has seen Dany’s dragons and been to magic-ridden Old Town, and is likely to be transporting Marwen back to Essos. It seems very likely that Quhuru Mo is a “little bird” for Illyrio.

Also, what is Chataya doing in King’s Landing, anyway? Westeros seems a rather hostile place given her beliefs. Surely the Summer Isles are a better place to have a respectable pillow house. A deposed royal or noblewoman, perhaps, happy to make some extra espionage money on the side?

There are heavy implications that Illyrio is aligned with a Summer Islands faction from the island of Walano (including the crew of the Cinnamon Wind, who hail from Tall Trees Town on Walano) that recently overthrew the previously-reigning Jhala-based faction (including Jalabar Xo). For more detail, see this thread theorizing that the Cinnamon Wind and Red Priests are very closely linked; I give my Illyrio-centric take in comment #77.

Given all this, it’s looking good for Illyrio to have a finger in the Summer Isles pie.

Linked to a gemstone emperor? No and…possibly. There may be a “lost” emperor who fell out of the annals of Westerosi and Essosi history entirely by ensconcing himself in the Summer Isles. I wouldn’t be surprised to find out that is the case if we learn more about SI history, but I don’t have any good evidence for it at the moment.

There is a bit of rather thin evidence, though: In my next post, I speculate that the concept of chivalry originated with the Great Empire of the Dawn. If that’s ever confirmed, then the chivalric tourneys that serve as ritualized battles in the Summer Isles could point to the influence of a lost Jet Emperor.

[Blind Beth the Cat Lady]

Conclusion

This thread is about what Illyrio thinks, not necessarily what is true. I think the two things overlap but not perfectly.

I don't think Illyrio is special by birth. Maybe that’s why he’s so fascinating to me. He started life as just some guy, then he happened to be befriend by Varys Blackfyre and became involved in his scheme to set a perfect (or at least Blackfyre) prince on the throne of Westeros. Just because Illyrio didn’t come up with the ideas of special dragon blood and perfect monarchs doesn’t mean he didn’t take them and run with them. Then he apparently became caught up with the Red Priests...

I think he’s first and foremost a man of the world, not a mystic. I don’t think he does magic or has magical talents. He’s just a really wealthy guy who became attracted to mystical beliefs, like the Beatles or the Holywood celebrities who follow Kabala.

Even if you don’t buy into the GEotD on it’s own, consider that Illyrio may well have been exposed to these ideas in-world and become attracted to them. I mean when you’re basically acting as the Illuminati in a political sense why not start believing in mystical stuff while you’re at it?

[Blind Beth the Cat Lady]

Sorry, the link to Durran Durrandon's thread didn't paste in properly, here it is: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/126019-daenerys-is-the-amethyst-empress-reborn/

[Lost Melnibonean]

God d@$n I thought I wrote long OPs. :)

We don't know for sure that Varys wants the "best" possible ruler for Westeros. This is an assumption, a credible one, but an assumption nonetheless. It is possible Varys's speech to Kevan was for his wee birds.

[Lost Melnibonean]

How do you know Illyrio is not a descendant of Daemon Blackfyre? He could be the descendant of some daughter or granddaughter of House Blackfyre.

[Lost Melnibonean]

About that cleaver... perhaps Illyrio is already dead...

Illyrio was reclining on a padded couch, gobbling hot peppers and pearl onions from a wooden bowl. His brow was dotted with beads of sweat, his pig's eyes shining above his fat cheeks. Jewels danced when he moved his hands; onyx and opal, tiger's eye and tourmaline, ruby, amethyst, sapphire, emerald, jet and jade, a black diamond, and a green pearl. I could live for years on his rings, Tyrion mused, though I' d need a cleaver to claim them.

...

The corsairs had come aboard in the darkness before the dawn, as the Meadowlark was anchored off the coast of the Disputed Lands. The crew had beaten them off, at the cost of twelve lives. Afterward the sailors stripped the dead corsairs of boots and belts and weapons, divvied up their purses, and yanked gemstones from their ears and rings from their fingers. One of the corpses was so fat that the ships cook had to cut his fingers off with a meat cleaver to claim his rings. It took three Meadowlarks to roll the body into the sea. The other pirates were chucked in after him, without a word of prayer or ceremony.

[Blind Beth the Cat Lady]

@Lost Melniboniean--Thanks for reading!

That's true, he could be for all I know. I just don't see anything pointing to that. And I like the idea of someone in this story being special because of their choices and mundane abilities rather than magic blood. :-)

It's also true that Varys could have been talking out of his ass when talking to Kevan. But he consistently cites "the realm" as his greatest concern, frequently mentions the tragedy of war, etc., so I think it adds up for him as a motivation.

[Blind Beth the Cat Lady]

double

[Blind Beth the Cat Lady]

About that cleaver... perhaps Illyrio is already dead...

Illyrio was reclining on a padded couch, gobbling hot peppers and pearl onions from a wooden bowl. His brow was dotted with beads of sweat, his pig's eyes shining above his fat cheeks. Jewels danced when he moved his hands; onyx and opal, tiger's eye and tourmaline, ruby, amethyst, sapphire, emerald, jet and jade, a black diamond, and a green pearl. I could live for years on his rings, Tyrion mused, though I' d need a cleaver to claim them.

...

The corsairs had come aboard in the darkness before the dawn, as the Meadowlark was anchored off the coast of the Disputed Lands. The crew had beaten them off, at the cost of twelve lives. Afterward the sailors stripped the dead corsairs of boots and belts and weapons, divvied up their purses, and yanked gemstones from their ears and rings from their fingers. One of the corpses was so fat that the ships cook had to cut his fingers off with a meat cleaver to claim his rings. It took three Meadowlarks to roll the body into the sea. The other pirates were chucked in after him, without a word of prayer or ceremony.

Maybe...

Aww, I hope not, he's so interesting! :-)

[Lost Melnibonean]

Topaz -

There was also a Topaz Emperor. But no topaz on Illyrios hands.

But, naturally, I have a theory for that, too.

I think that the lack of a topaz ring points to a past topaz ring that has been discarded because the plot has already been accomplished.

And I think that plot had to do with Dorne.

Topaz is most typically yellow. There are no mentions of topaz in Dorne, but they are strongly associated withwait for itlemons. Which are yellow.

Lets just admit that whether or not the oft-harped-on lemon tree was in Dorne or Braavos or somewhere else, at a summer home of the Sealord of Braavos or something, lemons are only mentioned as coming from Dorne and scream Dorne connection. Even if Danys lemon tree was in Braavos, it must have originated in Dorne. The purpose of the tree, regardless of its specific location, is most likely to tip the careful reader off to Danys Dornish connection and potential Dornish support. I suspect it was given to Dany and Viserys as a symbol of the marriage pact.

But what has this to do with Illyrio?

Well, Doran and Illyrio have fundamentally different objectives concerning the last pair of full-blooded dragons. Doran wants Viserys to wed Arianne and take the Iron Throne, while Dany would presumably remain Princess of Dragonstone with no particular value other than as a marriage bargaining chip. But if Illyrio sees Dany as the main attraction and Viserys as so many packing peanuts, then there is a conflict. Im not sure who Illyrio thinks is supposed to be the third head of the dragon, but it seems like he did not envision this for Viserys. In fact theres no evidence anywhere that Illyrio ever saw Viserys as anything but an expendable little shit. Illyrio already had a potential Bloodstone Emperor Reborn, not to mention dragon head, in his own Blackfyre son, Aegon. And by all accounts Aegon is a generally much cooler person that Viserys so I think we can all understand Illyrios train of thought here.

Butconsider what Illyrio must have done *to Viserys* in order to achieve his own ends.

Dany recalls being kicked out of the house with the red door when Ser Willam Darry died. Sharp-eyed fans who like counting a lot more than I do have noted that Darrys death coincided with the death of the Sealord of Braavos, who was supposedly hiding them.

I submit that Illyrio, seeing a golden opportunity when Dany and Viserys were turned out of the house with the red door, (or perhaps having created his own opportunity via poison when the Sealord was about to die) sent agents to intercept and befriend Viserys. The agents planted rumors of hired knives in Visery's mind, and arranged for him and his sister to city-hop and be taken in by various people friendly to Illyrio. Thus Doran, who had much more limited ability to act in Essos than Illyrio did, eventually lost track of them. Probably after Tyrosh, since the last mention of him knowing where they are is Tyrosh.

I think Illyrio also influenced Mellario to prevent Arianne from going to Tyrosh as planned. I mean, if she really felt that strongly (she threatened to harm herself) about letting one of her children go to Essos, why did she herself go to Essos later on? I'm sure she was genuinely upset with and disillusioned by Doran, but the extreme of threatening to harm herself if he took one more child away from her doesn't fit with her own later abandonment. And Mellario was probably feeling friendlier towards a fellow Essosi than to her foreign husband by that point; I doubt Illyrio had much trouble bending her ear, getting her to simply be more adamant about her very real displeasure.

The fact that Doran had lost track of Viserys by the time Arianne came of age is implied by her statement that she is "three-and-twenty, for seven years a woman grown." Doran explains why she hasn't been wed to anyone else, but not why she wasn't already wed to Viserys. Both have been of age for some time. What was he waiting for? We have no explanation for why the Arianne + Viserys throne-taking plot never kicked off. I think it's because Doran didn't know where Viserys was.

"They had wandered since then, from Braavos to Myr, from Myr to Tyrosh, and on to Qohor and Volantis and Lys, never staying long in one place. Her brother would not allow it. The Usurper's hired knives were close behind them, he insisted, though Dany had never seen one."

According to Dany's memory, they traveled from Tyrosh (where Arianne was supposed to meet Viserys) to Qohor, which is far, strange, land-locked, and has no particular connection to Dorne.

"The realm will rise for its rightful king. Tyrell, Redwyne, Darry, Greyjoy, they have no more love for the Usurper than I do. The Dornishmen burn to avenge Elia and her children."

Viserys, who at this point is about 22, a man grown for several years by Westerosi standards, clearly has no inkling of a pact with Dorne. In fact he doesn't even take their allegiance for granted as he does with the first four houses, but has to offer reasoning for why they would rise for him after he invades with Dothraki.

Viserys and Arianne could have not only been told of their betrothal but acted on it years before the beginning of GoT. That's a lot of pointless waiting, even for Doran. Unless there was some event Doran was waiting for that we don't know about that was supposed to kick off the coup, it sounds like there was a major roadblock to the marriage. If nothing else, Arianne could have been encouraged to tour the Free Cities and quietly bumped into Viserys. The only reason that would be impossible would be if Doran had lost him. And the only way someone like Viserys evades someone like Doran is if he has some help.

"No doubt the Usurper would pay well for your head."

Oh yes, Viserys said darkly. He has tried, Illyrio, I promise you that."

Yet Dany says she has never seen a hired knife.

Viserys is delusional, but not to the point of actually hallucinating, I don't think. And we know from Ned's POV that Robert never sent an assassin until the Vaes Dothrak incident. I would say that Viserys probably mistook the attentions of cut-purses or attempted muggers as hired knives, but in that case wouldn't Dany note that Viserys was probably exaggerating rather than saying that she has never seen a hired knife? If there had been some ambiguous incident I don't think we'd have such a stark difference in their reports--definite hired knives versus no known hired knives.

But it all makes sense if someone has been feeding Viserys false information to fuel his paranoia. Someone who wanted him to run from imaginary enemies and thus evade real friends, i.e. the Dornish.

Perhaps the same person who, in this very scene, is definitely fueling his paranoia. And smirking.

I like your idea about Illyrio setting Viserys and Daenerys on the run and keeping them on the run, but keep this SSM in mind...

Were Varys and Illyrio aware of the betrothal contract that Prince Doran and Ser Willem Darry had made? And why didn't Darry or someone tell Viserys about this agreement before his death?

To the first question: no. As to the second, Viserys was an immature child when it was decided, and he wasn't ready for the information.

http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/Asshai.com_Interview_in_Barcelona

[Nolan Clegane]

Wow! This is some thread. Still working through it, but I believe you have something with Ilyrio. His workings are not always easy to pick up and interpret. I also ambinteeested about the bit about the AER. And if Dany is in fact the AER, who then is the Bloodstone Emperor? And will they have the same roles as history indicates. I have been of the impression of late that the Bloodstone Emperor and Azores Ahai were the same... But your thread gives some other options to consider, for me anyway.

[Nolan Clegane]

About that cleaver... perhaps Illyrio is already dead...

Illyrio was reclining on a padded couch, gobbling hot peppers and pearl onions from a wooden bowl. His brow was dotted with beads of sweat, his pig's eyes shining above his fat cheeks. Jewels danced when he moved his hands; onyx and opal, tiger's eye and tourmaline, ruby, amethyst, sapphire, emerald, jet and jade, a black diamond, and a green pearl. I could live for years on his rings, Tyrion mused, though I' d need a cleaver to claim them.

...

The corsairs had come aboard in the darkness before the dawn, as the Meadowlark was anchored off the coast of the Disputed Lands. The crew had beaten them off, at the cost of twelve lives. Afterward the sailors stripped the dead corsairs of boots and belts and weapons, divvied up their purses, and yanked gemstones from their ears and rings from their fingers. One of the corpses was so fat that the ships cook had to cut his fingers off with a meat cleaver to claim his rings. It took three Meadowlarks to roll the body into the sea. The other pirates were chucked in after him, without a word of prayer or ceremony.

That's a good find. Certainly sounds like Ilyrio, but all that he has put in motion, suddenly FOR NOT...

[EternET]

Yayyyyy, Varys is the Spider, and Illyrio is the web => The end game of that is catching flies and eat I guess. Or is it to expend for the web ?

[Lost Melnibonean]

@Lost Melniboniean--Thanks for reading!

That's true, he could be for all I know. I just don't see anything pointing to that. And I like the idea of someone in this story being special because of their choices and mundane abilities rather than magic blood. :-)

It's also true that Varys could have been talking out of his ass when talking to Kevan. But he consistently cites "the realm" as his greatest concern, frequently mentions the tragedy of war, etc., so I think it adds up for him as a motivation.

The only other time I recall Varys referring to the good of thee realm was when he was maneuvering The Ned in the black cells. He was appealing to The Ned's sense of duty.

[Lost Melnibonean]

double

I do that a lot too. :)

[Lost Melnibonean]

Maybe...

Aww, I hope not, he's so interesting! :-)

I'm thinking the two passages foreshadow his fate. I suspect that Illyrio will betray Daenerys for blood.