Illyrio's Fingers

[Alequo Adarys]

Well that is certainly a different take. Do mind explaining your reasoning?

Illyrio is not directly involved with the Lannisters. He is only involved with Tyrion after he breaks with his house.

Starks are not associated with sapphires, but the Vale is. If you're going to connect sapphire to a great house it would have to be Arryn, Lysa wears sapphires quite often. Lesser houses associated with sapphires are Tarth and Manderly. None of those three has a clear connection to Illyrio, though.

Red Priests don't connect directly to tiger's eyes.

I don't believe any Tully ever wears jade, and there's no evidence that house is connected to Illyrio.

Black diamond = CoSW? I don't follow you there.

I believe the Green Grace does wear green pearls, but I don't see a connection between her and Illyrio. Not that there couldn't be, both are powerful and mysterious. I just don't see anything pointing to it. Arianne also wears green pearls, as does Dany at one point.

GRRM may have written some of himself into Illyrio, but I wouldn't equate them. Illryio doesn't appear to know about R+L=J, among other things, and his master Dany+Aegon plan doesn't look like it's going to work out.

Tiger's eye I relate because of the Triarch of Volantis. The black diamond would represent the black stone that the CoSW worship.

The rest of it I was honestly just drawing lines. I have seen green pearls reference the GEotD fairly often, though I will not back that up (I mean more specifically than standard pearls). I don't really relate any of the others, even the amethyst to any house, but I didn't want to give half of them meaning without doing so guesswork for the rest haha.

I do think Illyrio is some of GRRM, and the possibility that half of his rings don't represent anything is very possible to me (in a GRRM red herring fashion).

[NimbleDickCrabb66]

"Illyrio was reclining on a padded couch, gobbling hot peppers and pearl onions from a wooden bowl. His brow was dotted with beads of sweat, his pig’s eyes shining above his fat cheeks. Jewels danced when he moved his hands; onyx and opal, tiger’s eye and tourmaline, ruby, amethyst, sapphire, emerald, jet, and jade, a black diamond, and a green pearl. I could live for years on his rings, Tyrion mused, though I’d need a cleaver to claim them."

I've emboldened a comma between emerald and jet that wasnt in the original quote used in the OP. I'm curious what is the identical text? If the stone is supposed to be described as emeraldd-jet (meaning one stone) or emerald , jet (meaning two different stones).

I just noticed there were 12 stones described, and that there seems to be a fair amount of symbolism placed on the number 12.

- The 13th lord commander of the nights watch was said to be the nights king. (12 lord commanders before the night king cometh)

- I'm pretty sure I've heard mention of the 12 kingdoms of heaven in a Jon chapter where he is speaking of stars and constellations.

- Also, I know I've read something in LML thread about stuff that was above my head with stars and the number 12, and the 13th being a change of some type of corruption (as I said I'm a little above my head with all of the info. I've been consuming in rapidity).

- The section someone quoted about the goblet Mace Tyrell gets for Geoffrey associated several gemstones with the Great Houses of westeros. It made me think it possible the the GEOTD may have been the settling First Men. Its possible that all this sigil business has to do with either pre/post pact "marriages" between the GeoDawnians and someone else (possibly COTF). If there was some kind of procreation with GeoDawnians, who most likely were not what we imaginie as human but somewhat human, and the COTF (who are also similar to what we consider humans but smaller), that would make what we might describe as a human or the First Men. Werent the GeoDawnians described as being a bit taller and beautiful?

Just a crazy thought about GeoDawnians and FirstMen: Could it be that the First Men were members of the GEOD who left Eastern essos and settled through out Westeros (to get away from the Bloodstone Emperor and the "sinister" practices of the Church of Starry Wisdom?

After reading the uneditted section of the Westerlands from TWOIAF I was convinced that Lann the clever was a son of, or an original member of the great empire of the dawn. It would make a bit of sense too, because as other's have pointed out - the arm of Dorne was intact, and the westerlands would have been a nice stopping point before the climate begins to really get cold. Also, Oldtown clearly has some history prior to the FirstMen. It seems odd that

I really liked the idea someone mentioned about the Yellow Emperor of YiTi and him trying to recreate the great empire of the dawn in his court. It seems like Illyrio might be doing this and you made some really interesting points. I think Illyrio is playing a game that involves Westeros and Essos and all of that in between, and there is definitely some huge mystery that will effect everyone on planetos that Illyrio is planning for.

The fact that valyria came after the GeoD is telling. Why did they breed so many dragons? Why do these same stones coming up? Do the colors of the great house of westeros have a link to the stones we keep seeing coming up the world book and the series in general? I'm spitballing here, but I get the impression Westeros might be some type of creation of the GEOD, and things got screwed up because of the bloodstone emperor, valyria, possibly the deep ones.

Btw, I own stock in Reynolds Wrap.

[Blind Beth the Cat Lady]

"Illyrio was reclining on a padded couch, gobbling hot peppers and pearl onions from a wooden bowl. His brow was dotted with beads of sweat, his pig’s eyes shining above his fat cheeks. Jewels danced when he moved his hands; onyx and opal, tiger’s eye and tourmaline, ruby, amethyst, sapphire, emerald, jet, and jade, a black diamond, and a green pearl. I could live for years on his rings, Tyrion mused, though I’d need a cleaver to claim them."

I've emboldened a comma between emerald and jet that wasnt in the original quote used in the OP. I'm curious what is the identical text? If the stone is supposed to be described as emeraldd-jet (meaning one stone) or emerald , jet (meaning two different stones).

I just noticed there were 12 stones described, and that there seems to be a fair amount of symbolism placed on the number 12.

- The 13th lord commander of the nights watch was said to be the nights king. (12 lord commanders before the night king cometh)

- I'm pretty sure I've heard mention of the 12 kingdoms of heaven in a Jon chapter where he is speaking of stars and constellations.

- Also, I know I've read something in LML thread about stuff that was above my head with stars and the number 12, and the 13th being a change of some type of corruption (as I said I'm a little above my head with all of the info. I've been consuming in rapidity).

- The section someone quoted about the goblet Mace Tyrell gets for Geoffrey associated several gemstones with the Great Houses of westeros. It made me think it possible the the GEOTD may have been the settling First Men. Its possible that all this sigil business has to do with either pre/post pact "marriages" between the GeoDawnians and someone else (possibly COTF). If there was some kind of procreation with GeoDawnians, who most likely were not what we imaginie as human but somewhat human, and the COTF (who are also similar to what we consider humans but smaller), that would make what we might describe as a human or the First Men. Werent the GeoDawnians described as being a bit taller and beautiful?

Just a crazy thought about GeoDawnians and FirstMen: Could it be that the First Men were members of the GEOD who left Eastern essos and settled through out Westeros (to get away from the Bloodstone Emperor and the "sinister" practices of the Church of Starry Wisdom?

After reading the uneditted section of the Westerlands from TWOIAF I was convinced that Lann the clever was a son of, or an original member of the great empire of the dawn. It would make a bit of sense too, because as other's have pointed out - the arm of Dorne was intact, and the westerlands would have been a nice stopping point before the climate begins to really get cold. Also, Oldtown clearly has some history prior to the FirstMen. It seems odd that

I really liked the idea someone mentioned about the Yellow Emperor of YiTi and him trying to recreate the great empire of the dawn in his court. It seems like Illyrio might be doing this and you made some really interesting points. I think Illyrio is playing a game that involves Westeros and Essos and all of that in between, and there is definitely some huge mystery that will effect everyone on planetos that Illyrio is planning for.

The fact that valyria came after the GeoD is telling. Why did they breed so many dragons? Why do these same stones coming up? Do the colors of the great house of westeros have a link to the stones we keep seeing coming up the world book and the series in general? I'm spitballing here, but I get the impression Westeros might be some type of creation of the GEOD, and things got screwed up because of the bloodstone emperor, valyria, possibly the deep ones.

Btw, I own stock in Reynolds Wrap.

Supposed to be "emerald, jet, and jade" --typo, sorry.

Lots of interesting thoughts, there. :-)

I think that Garth Greenhands was actually a GeoDawnian, that he left the Empire for whatever reason and got himself some First Men followers and went over to Westeros. So his children, (Durran Godsgrief, Brandon of the Bloody Blade, etc.) who founded most of the houses of Westeros, were half-GeoDawnian. And Lann was perhaps another full GeoDawnian (though perhaps not Emperor stock) who snuck in to Garth's kingdom. Or maybe a bastard son of Florys the Fox, Garths' daughter.

I also agree there was mixing of GD and CotF blood, to very dramatic effect. If you want to read my own rather Reynolds-Wrapped views on that in more detail check out my "God King by Any Other Name" thread in my signature.

There seems to be some small amount of agreement on the threads that Oldtown was originally a GEotD trading outpost, which makes a lot of sense if Garth was a relative of the Great Emperor.

Edit: In terms of the number 12....I have no specific opinion about that, but there probably is something to it.

[Blind Beth the Cat Lady]

Tiger's eye I relate because of the Triarch of Volantis. The black diamond would represent the black stone that the CoSW worship.

The rest of it I was honestly just drawing lines. I have seen green pearls reference the GEotD fairly often, though I will not back that up (I mean more specifically than standard pearls). I don't really relate any of the others, even the amethyst to any house, but I didn't want to give half of them meaning without doing so guesswork for the rest haha.

I do think Illyrio is some of GRRM, and the possibility that half of his rings don't represent anything is very possible to me (in a GRRM red herring fashion).

Oh, ok, gocha. The black stone/CoSW connection is a possibility, certainly.

Triarchs and Red Priests are intertwined politically, but I don't think it's so much the Red Priests would be represented by tiger's eye. I guess I could be wrong though.

Green pearls aren't that common in the novels, only four or five references IIRC. But yes, green and black pearls are both mentioned in addition to regular pearls. But it's hard to parse out what each specific pearl color might mean in a text-supported way, and I do think they all point to a ruler in some way.

The gems on Joffrey's wedding cup might well have deeper meaning (probably do actually) but they don't seem to pertain to Illyrio so I mostly left them out.

[Lord Wraith]

OP its the face that people can find these hints is one of the reasons I love the ASOIAF series so much. Theories like this make me glad I decided to check out this site to see the brilliance of yourself and other people who create these amazing theories. Just awesome, now I'm going to read it again and see if I have anything to add to the conversation. I noticed that the of rings went green/black/green/black which might have been a reference to the dance of dragons.

[Daendrew]

Beth, you may be blind, but you have the greensight.

I wish I saw your post and this thread earlier before I reinvented the wheel after spending hours on my own Illyrio's rings article. We come to quite different conclusions though so it's not all for naught.

But I bow to thee for your tiger's eye. Great job.

[Mithras]

The first thing we should note about Illyrio is that George associated him with yellow intensely.

 

He has a forked yellow beard.

He has crooked yellow teeth.

He has a pair of heavy breasts that sagged like sacks of suet covered with coarse yellow hair.

He has a yellow smile.

 

George also associated Yunkai with yellow. It is called the Yellow City, ruled by Wise Masters, steeped in corruption. Even the most honorable of them, Yezzan, dresses in yellow, has yellow eyes and yellow teeth, and twice as fat as Illyrio. They spread lies about Dany, sent envoys to bribe and woo the triarchs to join the war against Dany. Another crooked man with yellow teeth, Arnolf Karstark, feigned loyalty to Stannis, only to backstab him at the right moment.

 

Therefore, we have seen enough to deduce that yellow is the color of corruption, deception, lies, betrayal, backstabbing and worse in ASOIAF.

 

That means the mouth of Illyrio smiling yellow smiles with crooked yellow teeth can only speak lies.

 

Here is something I have found recently:

 

CHAI DUQ, the fourth yellow emperor, who took to wife a noblewoman of Valyria and kept a dragon at his court.

 

Illyrio, the man who is associated with yellow intensely, took to wife a noblewoman of Valyria (Serra) and kept a dragon (fAegon) at his court.

 

In addition to this, I just noticed that Robert W. Chambers wrote a book of short stories called The King in Yellow and he inspired a lot of writers including Lovecraft and the George. Two of the stories in this book are:

 

"In the Court of the Dragon" – A man is pursued by a sinister church organist who is after his soul.

 

"The Yellow Sign" – An artist is troubled by a sinister churchyard watchman who resembles a coffin worm.

 

Note that Carcosa was invented by Ambrose Bierce and borrowed by Chambers first. There is an exile sorcerer in the city of Carcosa where an exile sorcerer lord claims to be the 69th yellow emperor.

[rhaenys666]

I love your threads on the gemstone connections and empire of the great dawn. So well thought out and fun to read.

[Blind Beth the Cat Lady]

I love your threads on the gemstone connections and empire of the great dawn. So well thought out and fun to read.

Aw, thanks!