[Book Spoilers] EP506 Discussion v. 2

[The Grandmaster]

Tommen is just pathetic. I know he is gonner soon.

Ironically, it could be argued that Margaery's is in just as much danger as Tommen's wife as she would be as Joffrey's. Joffrey would have delivered the High Septon's head to her on a plate after the stunt he pulled, in fact he probably would have done so well before now, while Tommen doesn't have the spine to stop the FM from taking her. Now where's that strangler poison, Olenna...?

[robasp2]

I eat my words about last episode.

Yes Danys proposal was stupid. She seemed to be going crazy.

And then BAM..

Whatever we were thinking about Dany, Tyrion said it in this episode.

"Doesnt mean she will be a good queen just because she has dragons!" Tytion said.

No thats why we have you to lead her to the right path I screamed.

:D

Edited May 18, 2015 by robasp2

[The Drunkard]

Dorne is terrible. I hope it plays a huge role in the books otherwise they should have cut it. It is SO BAD.

Yeah, agreed. I think I've withheld judgment about whether or not Dorne deserved to be in so far, but it's hard to see why the Riverlands stories wouldn't be a better choice. Jaime could stick to his storyline, Brienne to hers, Edmure+Blackfish and Beric+Thoros+Stoneheart could do their things rather than being disappeared for a few seasons (or else just cut), instead of a completely new continent being introduced along with a heap of bad characters that drag decent characters down with them.

[TheKitttenGuard]

On Tommen:

Tommen is a pawn who is King. Who has his ear will have the power. Cersei was able to drive Margaery away and humiliated Tommen. She has her control over him.

On Joffrey,

Taking into account the season 3 scene of Joffrey referring to Renly's Perversion it is surprising no thinks Joffrey will be revealing in Margery torment.

[Lady Darry]

There was a lot of ‘Dany will go mad’ exposition in this episode. Tyrion said that Targs are known to be insane, he said Aerys burned people for fun which is a parallel to what Dany did in last episode. D&D are trying very hard to make us like Stannis and hate Dany. And Cersei is not 'mad' in show, so 'mad queen' would be something new. I don’t want to believe this will happen, but it seems they are going in this direction.

As to Sansa...A lot of unsullied love GoT because of shock. We don’t have all those things that made us like ASOIAF in show. So D&D have to do shock >substance to keep ratings up. Most of my unsullied friends were looking forward to each new season, because they always hoped that Dany will came to Westeros or that Others will invade. They think that’s the main point of the show. And since Dany is still in Meereen and Others are still gods know where, they need shock-well, at least that is what I think D&D are thinking.

They made shock >substance into show trademark. And it’s sick. What they did to Sansa…that was our fifth rape so far?

Edited May 18, 2015 by Lady Darry

[Mladen]

I LOVED that Littlefinger's plan silenced all the criticisms against him this season. "It doesnt make sense! Dumber and Dumber dont know what theyre doing!" -- booyah. Have some patience next time. Just like when there were tons of complaints about Brienne being a bully and then she apologizes to Pod. The writers stumble and fall some times but they know what theyre doing.

You think that silenced criticism? This is the same mistake as people assumed before. People take LF's words at face value. Simply, and I can't believe we have to stress this out - he is lying. This continues to be the most idiotic thing for LF to have done. Why? Because, unlike in the series, where he is working from the shadows, through different agendas and plots, here he is publicly roaming around declaring his allegiance. Given how quickly he jumped from WF to KL, one has to question what enormous idiots both Cersei and Roose are, not to actually have info on LF's true motivation.

And this entire season proved that they actually have no idea. ASOIAF backed them so far, but now that they are on their own, we actually see their lack of imagination, poor and lazy writing, plot holes etc. We basically see how untalented they are.

[Pilusmagnus]

Speaking about the last scene of the episode, I've seen the word "illogical" and "absurd" used many times to describe it. Can someone explain how exactly that scene was illogical?

[DannyNic]

For me it was one of the better episodes of the season. Yes that incudes the Sansa scene at the end which I personally don't think it was unnecessary at all. Yes it was a little bit uncomfortable to watch/listen too, however I think that D&D will use this as a platform to help bring the Theon back from Reek on the basis that what he witnessed was so terrible that he no longer wants to be a part of it, rebuilds his character and will eventually help Sansa escape (with the help of Brienne?!).

My favourite part of the episode was the whole KL side of the story, that scene between Olenna and Cersei was brilliantly acted. With how things stand right now I struggle to see how Cersei gets arrested?, especially with both Loras and Margaery locked up. The only conclusion I can come up with is that Littlefinger/Olenna team up with maybe the help of Lancel, who will confess to the faith that he had sex with Cersei as well as her relationship with Jaime. That would be right up LF's street in the way he causes havoc, especially considering the conversation he's just had with Cersei. It'll be great to see how that pans out.

Dorne is thoroughly boring TV, I can only imagine that they're going to give them a bigger role in season 6, otherwise it is a complete waste of time, that fight scene with the Sand Snakes, Jaime and Bronn was an absolute farce, I was just sat there staring at my TV like "wtf have I just watched?" almost laughable!

Jorah and Tyrion is a surprisingly entertaining duo, although any scene with Tyrion is entertaining for me.

Kudos to the FX team for the scene with Arya and Jaqen, it's good to see they've spent more this season on the CGI element. Brilliant!

On a seperate note, it makes me laugh watching people get so irate about the shows. We all knew the books would deviate a lot more from the books this season so what are you expecting? I always find watching the episodes without comparing them to the books all the time helps me enjoy them even more.

[DannyNic]

Edit, double post, apologies.

Edited May 18, 2015 by DannyNic

[Drogonthedread]

I eat my words about last episode.

Yes Danys proposal was stupid. She seemed to be going crazy.

And then BAM..

Whatever we were thinking about Dany, Tyrion said it in this episode.

"Doesnt mean she will be a good queen just because she has dragons!" Tytion said.

No thats why we have you to lead her to the right path I screamed.

:D

seems like the writers are taking lines from posters here for dany storyline

[protar]

That's coming from people who didn't read the book or who just like to stir up controversy. Anyone who has read the book shouldn't be mad about the Sansa scene. It was taken directly from book material and was toned WAY, WAY down. Props to D&D for softening it so much. If someone thinks it was 'illogical' or 'unnecessary' they need to take it up with GRRM. All D&D did was stay faithful to the book.

No they did not. Characters are not interchangeable. Sansa's arc (both her arc from the books and the trajectory set for her by the show) had to be twisted and contorted so that they could have that scene with her.

Edited May 18, 2015 by protar

[aFeastForDragons]

So was that Sansa scene meant to be the one that was more shocking than the Red Wedding?

D&D are trying very hard to make us like Stannis and hate Dany.

Which is a very drastic chance from previous seasons.

[WinterNathanielle]

What I kept thinking after watching was: "What will happen to the great northern conspiracy plot?" I know it's still a theory but i was excited to see it in the show, thinking that it will start at the wedding.

Sansa's wedding was held, albeit a little too fast, and the great northern lords that were supposed to be there weren't. I was so hoping that at least some parts of jeyne poole's wedding will be parallel to sansa's and there will still be some assurance that there is a conspiracy between the northern lords to take winterfell from the boltons.

[Pilusmagnus]

I still don't know how that Sansa scene was illogical. It seems extremely logical and not-absurd to me that a mad individual like Ramsay would want to rape someone. He's done worse.

[JonSnowed]

I really feel that the show is now starting to give us some quite blatant pointers to the content of Winds of Winter without any hard spoilers, R+L=J appears to be gaining momentum, there is foreshadowing of Dany going mad, Littlefinger plotting to take the North seems like a logical next step for him and Sansa may be starting to use her sexuality to exert power (still to be confirmed but latest Winds chapter suggests that too). I am starting to think by the end of this series we will have further hints and some confirmation of plot direction for the next book.

[johndance]

No they did not. Characters are not interchangeable. Sansa's arc (both her arc from the books and the trajectory set for her by the show) had to be twisted and contorted so that they could have that scene with her.

When you're dealing with only 10 hours to show the season, and the largest cast on television, they do. Yet again, we fail to grasp this. They have 10 shows to tell the story of almost an entire book. They have to find a way to tell all of the major characters' stories in this limited time. This is a monumental task. The only way to piece it together is to absolve some minor characters into the bigger ones.

If you want to be upset that Sansa absolved Jeyne Poole fine, but that's probably unfair given all of the restrictions tv presents. That scene, however, was not conjured, twisted or contorted in a way. It was faithful to book material, which is something people have been bitching that they wanted more of. Think of how big of a double standard that is.

[BonBon]

I think that most of this episode gave a certain development either of characters or the plotline, except dorne, that was troughly pointless.

However Dorne set up is complete. we have sandsnakes in prison including Jaime. Perhaps since there is no Aegon, Doran will be the main player, in Myrcella as queen plotline. Jaime released and he will have the riverlands arc in the next season. Poor Bronn tough -.-.

Arya, has marvellous development, it has been sped up a bit. Her killing carreer will start next episode, probably as Cat of the Canals. I think season will end with her going blind.

KL is going quite by the book, I was hoping after loras, septon will call Cersei after margaery. it will probably happen in the next episode, however I think Storms end plot with Loras has not been droped yet. alot can happen in next 4 episodes.

Winterfell. What Interest me most is that help sansa is supposed to get if she lights up the candle. It seems to me as another Ramsays plot, to give hope then strip it away. As for the scene , It was much more horrifying in the books with Jeyne. the main dynamoc in the books and series is that main charcters are not exempt from the bad things. It is obvious Jeyne has played a role also in development in the Jon Snow arc, by convincing him Arya is in WF, he decided to lead the wildings to the south. Sansa also has to play Jeynes role now.

More than stories diverging from the books I think they are merging storylines. And what they are ending is a massive wait that is undertaken in the books. Why have one char stay in the Vale for a shitload of time, when you can move them to fullfil someone elses role in the mean time. Probably in the books sansa will depart for WF at some point. Why not have her get there sooner and play a role in the plot development. While undergoning her transformation, in a different way. But to become a ''player'' she needs to lose faith in humanity, and become a borderline psychopat, like most of the ''players'' are. My hope is that she will put resistance to Ramsay. A potentially epic scene could be, her killing theon and thus taking away ramsay's favourite toy . And brienne plays the role of saving her.

[protar]

When you're dealing with only 10 hours to show the season, and the largest cast on television, they do. Yet again, we fail to grasp this. They have 10 shows to tell the story of almost an entire book. They have to find a way to tell all of the major characters' stories in this limited time. This is a monumental task. The only way to piece it together is to absolve some minor characters into the bigger ones.

If you want to be upset that Sansa absolved Jeyne Poole fine, but that's probably unfair given all of the restrictions tv presents. That scene, however, was not conjured, twisted or contorted in a way. It was faithful to book material, which is something people have been bitching that they wanted more of. Think of how big of a double standard that is.

They had plenty of time to develop Jeyne as a character. They spend so much time on completely invented characters and plots, on filler scenes and gratuitous sex, that there is no justification for this. Why not introduce Jeyne in Season 3, as a prisoner of Ramsay alongside Theon? Why not put Sansa on the backburner for a bit this season, they were willing to do so with Bran. Or else delve fully into her TWOW material? Why not cut the whole plot if there's so little time? Just bring forward the Battle of Winterfell a bit?

The scene in isolation is not the problem. In proper context it would have been a traumatic, but necessary and pivotal scene. But all logic and reason had to be twisted so that Sansa could get here. LF's plan to take her to Winterfell makes no sense.

[robasp2]

Aryas arc confused me.

I didnt understand shit. Can anyone enlighten me?

When did she lose the game before?

Why all the beating even when she was saying the truth?

Why suddennly she is shown rubber mask gallery?

Why cant they drink from well themselves? Clearly Arya has no magic..

[Impfan]

Continue discussion.

[MOD NOTE] If you cannot discuss the Sansa storyline with maturity and compassion, then you will not be discussing the topic at all. Please note that this thread will be heavily moderated. Thank you. [/MOD]

Is v.1 of this thread available on a "read only" basis?