[Book Spoilers] EP506 Discussion v. 2

[JonCon's Red Beard]

I think it hillarious that Natalie Dormer is 33 years old playing a what? supposed 18 year old or 17 year old on the show?

She's old enough to be his mother, tbh. I'm 33 and my son will be 14 this year. I'm sure it's very awkward for her. One thing is to take of his clothes in front of Gethin Anthony, who while younger than she is is still in his thirties, and another one, to have a sexual scene with a kid who has just learned how to clean his own ass even in real life...

[dannyk65]

She's old enough to be his mother, tbh. I'm 33 and my son will be 14 this year. I'm sure it's very awkward for her. One thing is to take of his clothes in front of Gethin Anthony, who while younger than she is is still in his thirties, and another one, to have a sexual scene with a kid who has just learned how to clean his own ass even in real life...

Do guys ever really learn how to clean their own asses properly?

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Do guys ever really learn how to clean their own asses properly?

lol, it's an expression. But I would say it happens around 40 when they got it right... Ironically, the same age many women finally find out how their periods work too. You know, to be equitable

.

[Angalin]

<mod note>

Start a thread about Lost in the Entertainment section (or find an old one), if that's what you want to discuss. And learn to disagree politely or drop out of the thread.

</mod note>

[robasp2]

How exactly is a penis joke on par with what happened to Sansa?

What actually happened to Sansa?

Did you see it? NO. It was left to our imagination. Why blame D&D for what you imagined?

(Cercei Jamie however was the real bad one)

How can a penis joke be funny? Tell me..I want to know.

<roose voice> Who decides what is on par with something else? You? </roose voice>

[Modesty Lannister]

What actually happened to Sansa?

Did you see it? NO. It was left to our imagination. Why blame D&D for what you imagined?

(Cercei Jamie however was the real bad one)

How can a penis joke be funny? Tell me..I want to know.

<roose voice> Who decides what is on par with something else? You? </roose voice>

Kudos for a new approach in defending the fan fiction, which goes under the name Game of Thrones for no apparent (legal) reason.

So, you are saying people are hypocrites if they do not demonstrate an equal compassion for something that happened and something that may happen in the future. So, we should equally be disturbed by images of events in Palmyra and potential torrential rain in Central America?

Secondly, the argument you presented shows that you did not read this thread, because had you done so, you'd have known that the majority of posters did not object to rape per se in a TV series. As to why they did object to the scene in episode 6 (and not only that scene), you'd have to go back and read through the thread and then come back to it.

Finally, don't you think it is a bit discourteous to just barge in after 400 something comments you've never even read and accuse posters of something you imagine they have written?

ETA: Have you just said people imagined rape that never happened? I'd rephrase that if I were you.

Edited May 24, 2015 by Modesty Lannister

[1234567]

I was going to say something about the Tommen situation, but... while the problem of women being raped is big, and people is now -hopefully- aware of it, men and boys being raped is still denied. They are invisible victims because people (well, idiot people) even laugh at them. At least with women, they are given the benefit of the doubt. With men, nope. "You got raped? LOL, you must be gay or something".

This is a very important point. Whilst there still are many problems with rape and society's response in regards to women, it is abysmal in response to men. The lack of support for male victims is terrible. People's attitudes are also much more negative or willing to deny it such as the lack of comment on Tommen and Marg in general (it is at least being discussed here).

[protar]

What actually happened to Sansa?

Did you see it? NO. It was left to our imagination. Why blame D&D for what you imagined?

(Cercei Jamie however was the real bad one)

How can a penis joke be funny? Tell me..I want to know.

<roose voice> Who decides what is on par with something else? You? </roose voice>

I did not imagine anything. We know exactly what Sansa's scene was intended to be.

I didn't find the cock merchant joke particularly funny, but if I did it is not in anyway hypocritical. It is a joke: Clearly written to be a joke as well, given the whole "it would be a dwarf sized cock"/"you'd be wrong!" exchange and we sheer absurdity of the line. So take your complaints to D+D. And it clearly won't actually happen to Tyrion. Sansa's scene was a rape scene, clearly written to be such. I can't even comprehend how one can consider the two scenes on equal level of distaste.

So I think I'm done discussing it with you.

[Chebyshov]

I did not imagine anything. We know exactly what Sansa's scene was intended to be.

I didn't find the cock merchant joke particularly funny, but if I did it is not in anyway hypocritical. It is a joke: Clearly written to be a joke as well, given the whole "it would be a dwarf sized cock"/"you'd be wrong!" exchange and we sheer absurdity of the line. So take your complaints to D+D. And it clearly won't actually happen to Tyrion. Sansa's scene was a rape scene, clearly written to be such. I can't even comprehend how one can consider the two scenes on equal level of distaste.

So I think I'm done discussing it with you.

Don't even dignify it. The rape of a character vs a joke written about penis sizes for something that didn't happen and we know won't. Like this is probably some of the sickest apology I've seen yet.

@Cheb *wild applause*

Also, what's your tumblr handle? I keep confusing you and Julia on there.

Sorry I kind of vomited that and then left for vacation. I dunno if someone answered you but I'm gotgifsandmusings and she's theculturalvacuum. But our blogs are a bit co-dependent.

[Woman of War]

I was going to say something about the Tommen situation, but... while the problem of women being raped is big, and people is now -hopefully- aware of it, men and boys being raped is still denied. They are invisible victims because people (well, idiot people) even laugh at them. At least with women, they are given the benefit of the doubt. With men, nope. "You got raped? LOL, you must be gay or something"...........

This

They definitely thought Arianne being "just" a powerful women with zero warrior skills was boring enough to cut her from her own arc and put the Snakes to replace her.

Yes, they cut a "political" woman. But I am more disappointed how they have altered Ellaria as Martin's voice in the books in favor of reason, explaining why revenge above all is the way to disaster. A foreshadowing for any character's arc that is based on revenge, a summary of Martin's approach. Maybe Ellaria will learn the hard way but it won't be the same characterization. Ellaria was one of my heroes in the books. Edited May 24, 2015 by Woman of War

[Khal Boner]

I did not imagine anything. We know exactly what Sansa's scene was intended to be.

I didn't find the cock merchant joke particularly funny, but if I did it is not in anyway hypocritical. It is a joke: Clearly written to be a joke as well, given the whole "it would be a dwarf sized cock"/"you'd be wrong!" exchange and we sheer absurdity of the line. So take your complaints to D+D. And it clearly won't actually happen to Tyrion. Sansa's scene was a rape scene, clearly written to be such. I can't even comprehend how one can consider the two scenes on equal level of distaste.

So I think I'm done discussing it with you.

The point is you weren't shown anything other than Theon's face so you are imagining the details. It's not a distasteful scene either. It was tastefully handled and very well acted.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

This

Yes, they cut a "political" woman. But I am more disppointed that they have altered Ellaria as Martin's voice in the books in favor of reason, explaining why revenge above all is the way to disaster. A foreshadowing for any character's arc that is based on revenge, a summary of Martin's approach.

Yes. I agree that Ellaria is Martin's voice in the Dornish arc. That's why she's strong, because she is able to see that revenge is pointless and she has no fear on telling the Snakes and Doran what she believes. This is, sadly, not "strong" enough to make her a strong female character. She needs violence to prove strength.

Ellaria, just as she is in the books, is a character many mothers whose husbands are soldiers can identify with. She just want to move on and make the world a peaceful world for their children. In Ellaria's case, she's taking strength from the fact her daughters need her. She's able to look at the murderers of her lover and forgive if that means her children will be calm safe lives. This Ellaria (who I call Hellaria) is risking her daughters and her lover's beloved daughters for fighting a cause that Oberyn didn't believe: he wasn't ok. with hurting innocents specially if those innocents are an innocent girl.

[T and A]

I couldn't watch the episode till yesterday. But it was imposible to stay unspoiled due to the internet. The Sansa-Thing was even on Google-News. So I thought the Sansa Scene must be the most discusting thing that ever happend on Game of Thrones. And that means a lot for this show. But then I wached it yesterday and I my only Thought after the episode was: What?? Thats the big Rape??? This was the most discusting scene? Are you fucking kidding me?

First of all, this is Ramsay we are talking about. He is a sociopath. What have you ecpected of him? Giving Sansa a Massage? It would be very unrealistic characterchange if he had acted differently.

Second of all, Sansa has on the Show the fAria Arc. It was clear that this would happen.

And last but not least, this wasnt even Rape, in the sence of Westeros. Sansa is married to Ramsay, therefore they must have sex on the first night. It's not considered Rape, only because she doesnt like her new Husband.

P.S. The (Show) Sex Scene between Danny and Drogo was much more discusting. And everybody thought they are a perfect couple.

[Khal Boner]

P.S. The (Show) Sex Scene between Danny and Drogo was much more discusting. And everybody thought they are a perfect couple.

Compare and contrast those two wedding night scenes in terms of how they were filmed and it's impossible to argue credibly that the Sansa scene was gratuitous or explicit.

[protar]

The point is you weren't shown anything other than Theon's face so you are imagining the details. It's not a distasteful scene either. It was tastefully handled and very well acted.

I'll be honest - as an isolated scene I thought it was pretty great television. It was uncomfortable to watch but that's as it should be. To me it's the surrounding context which I find reprehensible.

[Lord Damian]

There is absolutely no doubt what Sansa's bedding "ceremony" was. It was a rape. She was not expecting it to do down that way and that is obvious by the way she was acting. Sansa was a perfect lady to Ramsay and was willing to be a dutiful bride but she learned only there after it was too late, what Ramsay Bolton really was and what was going to happen to her. She had no power all along, she was duped into this and had she known or felt that what was going to happen to her, she never would have consented to go to Winterfell. That night, she was raped. No question.

[OldGimletEye]

I'll be honest - as an isolated scene I thought it was pretty great television. It was uncomfortable to watch but that's as it should be. To me it's the surrounding context which I find reprehensible.

Exactly. The scene, taken by itself, while extremely sad, is not what is maddening. What makes the scene extremely irritating is the degradation of characters and the contrived plot lines to make it happen. D & D took a mallet and jammed in it in there - basic logic, realism, themes, and the story be damned.

Anybody that thinks the problem with the scene is just the scene itself isn't getting it.

[Lord Damian]

Exactly. The scene, taken by itself, while extremely sad, is not what is maddening. What makes the scene extremely irritating is the degradation of characters and the contrived plot lines to make it happen. D & D took a mallet and jammed in it in there - basic logic, realism, themes, and the story be damned.

Anybody that thinks the problem with the scene is just the scene itself isn't getting it.

yes, we all know that at some point, Sansa would be wed and bed but they turned the storylines inside out, twisted them around to get Sansa raped by Ramsay. It was/is against all plot logic, practically destroying and heaping more abuse on a beloved character for nothing more than shock value. That is the most frustrating part of it. The lines they gave Sansa's character, that led her to going to Winterfell are a complete contrast to what her character has learned up until this season.

[Khal Boner]

Anybody that thinks the problem with the scene is just the scene itself isn't getting it.

They do get it. You don't like her show arc. That's it. The accusations of contrivance, lack of logic, degradation of character are just an opinion. One I don't agree with.

[Dya of Oldstones]

What's even creepier is the how artistic and beautifully the wedding was filmed and the attention paid to the filming of "that scene" in contrast to the slovenly Sand Snakes scene. The clues this gives me about how D&D allocate their resources gives me the chills and not in a good way.

Edited May 24, 2015 by Duchess of Spork