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[Book Spoilers] EP506 Discussion v. 2


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They do get it. You don't like her show arc. That's it. The accusations of contrivance, lack of logic, degradation of character are just an opinion. One I don't agree with.

I don't give a flying fuck what you agree with or what you don't. There is no reason to believe that your opinions should hold equal weight with anybody else's. Particularly when compared to people that have explained in detail what's wrong with the scene and the setup for it.While everyone is entitled to an opinion, nobody is entitled to have their opinion be considered meritorious. And yours are largely not. Many smart posters here have given very detailed and strong reasons for their dislike of the scene. The upshot here is that not all opinions are equal. Some are better than others because they are better reasoned. Your opinions largely suck.

Edited by OldGimletEye
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The problem with the scene is that it was purposely invented to create an unnecessary shock, while being both exploitative with both the character and the actress playing the character.



That's not the same as, let's say



wow spoilers




Arya as Mercy, because she's playing a role, a role that is helping her to kill Raff.







They do get it. You don't like her show arc. That's it. The accusations of contrivance, lack of logic, degradation of character are just an opinion. One I don't agree with.





The accusations of contrivance, lack of logic and degradation of character are not things that have occurred to OldGimletEye only, or a couple of discontented people. The scene has been accused as unnecessary even by those magazines who praised the show for the changes. That's the point. Those magazines said "the changes are perfect!" and they are now saying "this scene was too much". Well, this scene happened do to the changes, it was, as many said, a consequence of a path they were created and that many readers here thought it would happen since Sophie's first interview but didnt' want to believe it would happened. It did. The press ignored those observations of the fans and keep insisting on how the show was better than the books. And now they are revolted? Please. Kinda late for their reaction.


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And I don't give a flying fuck what you agree with or what you don't. There is no reason to believe that your opinions should hold equal weight with anybody else's. Particularly when compared to people that have explained in detail what's wrong with the scene and the setup for it.While everyone is entitled to an opinion, nobody is entitled to have their opinion be considered meritorious. And yours are largely not. Many smart posters here have given very detailed and strong reasons for their dislike of the scene. The upshot here is that not all opinions are equal. Some are better than others because they are better reasoned. Your opinions largely suck.

Your opinion, like mine, is only that. An opinion. Your opinion that the set up is wrong or that the scene is distasteful is just an opinion. An ill informed one if you know anything about writing for tv imo. The dislike of the scene is clearly really about a favourite character having their book story changed. The fact that she was raped has just made the overreaction more hysterical and vitriolic. It makes perfect sense to her new, far more interesting arc though. Bring on Ep 7.

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The problem with the scene is that it was purposely invented to create an unnecessary shock, while being both exploitative with both the character and the actress playing the character.

That's not the same as, let's say

wow spoilers

Arya as Mercy, because she's playing a role, a role that is helping her to kill Raff.

The accusations of contrivance, lack of logic and degradation of character are not things that have occurred to OldGimletEye only, or a couple of discontented people. The scene has been accused as unnecessary even by those magazines who praised the show for the changes. That's the point. Those magazines said "the changes are perfect!" and they are now saying "this scene was too much". Well, this scene happened do to the changes, it was, as many said, a consequence of a path they were created and that many readers here thought it would happen since Sophie's first interview but didnt' want to believe it would happened. It did. The press ignored those observations of the fans and keep insisting on how the show was better than the books. And now they are revolted? Please. Kinda late for their reaction.

Well I personally don't give don't give a fuck what critics think. I make my own mind up.

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And last but not least, this wasnt even Rape, in the sence of Westeros. Sansa is married to Ramsay, therefore they must have sex on the first night. It's not considered Rape, only because she doesnt like her new Husband.

Not an issue for Westerosi sensibilities? Why was Theon horrified and crying?

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Your opinion, like mine, is only that. An opinion. Your opinion that the set up is wrong or that the scene is distasteful is just an opinion. An ill informed one if you know anything about writing for tv imo. The dislike of the scene is clearly really about a favourite character having their book story changed. The fact that she was raped has just made the overreaction more hysterical and vitriolic. It makes perfect sense to her new, far more interesting arc though. Bring on Ep 7.

You know, you keep trying to pull this "But, here is my opinion and my opinion is...., and you have to respect my opinion, blah, blah, blah." But you know, I really don't have to respect your opinion, nor does anybody else. And there is no reason to presume that all opinions are equal or are as well reasoned.

Among other things, one of the biggest issues I have with the whole setup, leading to Sansa's rape, was her marriage to the Boltons as a way to "avenge her family". That was just dumb. Why would anybody marry into the family that was responsible for the extermination of their own family, particularly one that was known to have violated the Guest Right, one of the most sacred laws in Westeros. The answer is they wouldn't. The whole setup to get Sansa to marry Ramsay was extremely stupid, contrived, and dumb.

And don't get me started on the apparent fact that Westeros, evidently, had to be shrunk into the size of Rhode Island in order to make the marriage happen.

Edited by OldGimletEye
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Among other things, one of the biggest issues I have with the whole setup, leading to Sansa's rape, was her marriage to the Boltons as a way to "avenge her family". That was just dumb. Why would anybody marry into the family that was responsible for the extermination of their own family, particularly one that was known to have violated the Guest Right, one of the most sacred laws in Westeros. The answer is they wouldn't. The whole setup to get Sansa to marry Ramsay was extremely stupid, contrived, and dumb.

It would work if such person is a male, tbh. The trope of the women marrying to avenge the family is in this case, unrealistic and something Martin would oppose to because he likes his characters as mediaevally realistic as possible.

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Your opinion, like mine, is only that. An opinion. Your opinion that the set up is wrong or that the scene is distasteful is just an opinion. An ill informed one if you know anything about writing for tv imo. The dislike of the scene is clearly really about a favourite character having their book story changed. The fact that she was raped has just made the overreaction more hysterical and vitriolic. It makes perfect sense to her new, far more interesting arc though. Bring on Ep 7.

People (myself included) have explained in depth what exactly is wrong with the lead up to the scene. Saying "you have no idea how TV works" is not an argument. Nor is pretending that our complaints are something other than what we say. If we're so clueless about television and you aren't, actually explain and reason to us why don't you? Explain to me how LF's plan makes sense. Explain to me how they didn't have time to show Sansa in the Vale, even though that would still leave them with fewer storylines to handle than other seasons. Explain to me how it's okay for D+D to spend years planning exactly how the plot could be bent to include the scene.

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People (myself included) have explained in depth what exactly is wrong with the lead up to the scene. Saying "you have no idea how TV works" is not an argument. Nor is pretending that our complaints are something other than what we say. If we're so clueless about television and you aren't, actually explain and reason to us why don't you? Explain to me how LF's plan makes sense. Explain to me how they didn't have time to show Sansa in the Vale, even though that would still leave them with fewer storylines to handle than other seasons. Explain to me how it's okay for D+D to spend years planning exactly how the plot could be bent to include the scene.

Now that I've learned how to ignore posters, anyone who replies to a post that has specific reasons why something is bad with "you just don't like it because it's different" or "why don't you do better?" or anything similar to that immediately gets blocked. There's no having a legitimate discussion with someone who will always dismiss what you say with personal attacks or questioning your motives, rather than a reasoned counterargument. I've learned this the hard way. I got really tired of seeing someone write out coherent thoughts only to get a childish response that ignores or misses their point entirely.

Edited by bobbybuilderton
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Now that I've learned how to ignore posters, anyone who replies to a post that has specific reasons why something is bad with "you just don't like it because it' different" or "why don't you do better?" or anything similar to that immediately gets blocked. There's no having a legitimate discussion with someone who will always dismiss what you say with personal attacks or questioning your motives, rather than a reasoned counterargument. I've learned this the hard way. I got really tired of seeing someone write out coherent thoughts only to get a childish response that ignores or misses their point entirely.

you just don't like others opinions because they don't think exactly like you :dunno:

:drunk:

aaaaaaaaaaand, i'm blocked :dunce:

Edited by Rena Melville
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The trope of the women marrying to avenge the family is in this case, unrealistic and something Martin would oppose to because he likes his characters as mediaevally realistic as possible.

So you don't believe in the Strategic Sansa Marriage Strike? Huh, I wonder why.

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Opinions are not facts. that's a common misconception. It's like when people believe they can say "gays should not adopt because they are pedophiles" and we are meant to say nothing because it's their "opinion".



This has nothing to do with the narrative. I think mostly boarders here agree that, indeed, narratively, it was a consequence of the show leading to that end. The problem we have is that they have put aside many things they themselves established in their adaptation to get to that end, as Sansa's development as a player last season. Her last scene put her in a position in which she had LF by the balls and she could do or no to do what she wanted because she saved his ass. And this happened because she didn't trust him: you don't blackmail someone you trust.



This season she trusted him so much that she was so easily convinced into something that placed h er in the bedroom of a monster to be raped.



It's also a critic to the fact the show has deal with this in a very casual way. The problem is not the scene itself, at least not to me. I've seen worst scenes, tbh. The problem is that they have made a joke out of a rape, as they have done before. And they are using rape as "empowering" which is not the same as helping a victim to get through a situation and help them to recover their strength. They NEEDED the rape to make Sansa walk out of it like it's nothing, ignoring the fact she's a virgin teen that doesn't have the emotional maturity to simply walk out of it and move on.



That's the criticism and deny it is not an opinion. Sorry but it's not. Denying is saying "but it's just a rape!". it's not "just a rape".


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I mean, Benioff wrote Troy, right? Sansa = Trojan horse. I'm pretty sure she will get pregnant with shadow baby soon enough.

Ahahahahahahaha!!!!!! No. Benioff adapted The Ilyad, which was written by Homer. So, Trojan horse cannot be attributed to Benioff. Poor adaptation of Homer's masterpiece, on the other hand, can. And this is his second dumbing down of a masterpiece. I wonder why he does it. Is it because he is untalented writer with a writer's envy or is it just because he is plain stupid.

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I mean, Benioff wrote Troy, right? Sansa = Trojan horse. I'm pretty sure she will get pregnant with shadow baby soon enough.

Let's not give D & D any ideas here. I'm sure they would love to have a Melisandre & Sansa scene. Of course, they probably have been already planning it.

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