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[Book Spoilers] EP506 Discussion v. 2


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The stupidity of the show writers is impossible to defend. First of all, they bought TV rights for a fantasy genre masterpiece and turned it into a mixture of soap opera and torture porn. That is like buying a painting by Leonardo and giving it to an art student instead of blanc canvas so that he can paint his first painting ever.

I blame huge egos and not enough talent paired with an enormous amount of greed and lots of focus group research by the HBO relevant department.

So, in order to explain my position, I will stick to the show and forget about the books for now.

- Tyrion told us the story of Tysha, his first wife, twice in the show. And that was a classic Chekov's gun. We had a story filed in our brains and writers just had to use it in an appropriate moment. When that moment came (Jaime releases Tyrion from prison), the story is never told. So, Tyrion has no motive to seek Tywin out. He has no motive to kill him. Or, to be more precise, he has the same motive ha had in season 1 episode 1. There was nothing to tip Tyrion over the edge. So, why was Tysha story introduced in the first place?

- Barristan Selmy crossed half of Essos to find Daenerys. His show value since he found her was to tell her a couple of tales about her father and brother that might have been told by anyone else. Then the character, whom Jaime described as "the painter who paints in red" and the best knight he has ever known, strolls down a city on a verge of mutiny without armour and gets killed like a novice. That is a waste of screen time, character, money and plot.

- Gendry was left rowing at some point in the show. No followup for a long time. Is he still rowing?

- Locke was sent to the Wall by the Boltons only to get killed by Bran inside Hodor. What was the purpose of that arc? What did the show achieve with it? Would anything have changed if that arc had not been there? Yes, there would be more screen time for things that actually matter.

- Brothel scenes are mostly totally unjustified by plots and exist solely to achieve some pre-set nudity quota per episode.

- Rape scenes in Crasters keep were so casual as if they were portraying some sport.

- The latest rape scene makes no dramaturgical sense. Boltons are keen to take control over the North. They are about to face Stannis's army and they are facing a silent mutiny and disapproval of all other northern lords. Sansa is their card to legalisation of their position. And Ramsey rapes her on their wedding night forcing Theon to watch. He has just thrown all his father's diplomatic work down the drain. So, what is the purpose of that scene? To show Ramsey is mad? We know he is mad. That has been established. To show he is stupid? Maybe. But, that has also been established. To shock the audience? After the RW, it would not be an easy task. On the other hand, the show established Sansa as a character who has grown and took her destiny into her own hands. How did they establish it? By showing us that she can lie effectively and with a plan. And by having Sansa change her appearance. The latter is a stupid method abandoned even in amateurish theatres, let alone expensive productions. However, they could not find any other method to demonstrate the change. Then they go back on their own arc and regress the same character to its season 2 part of the arc. The only conclusion therefore is that the rape scene in WF had been done for a sole purpose of shocking the audience in hope of pushing the ratings even higher. since the producers already experienced backlash last season with the sept rape scene, it takes a lot of stupidity to repeat the exercise and push the stakes even higher. So, we had to watch through Theon another pointless tourture porn. There is no justification for this.

I can go on and give many more examples, but I have to conclude that the show has proven to be sexist, anti-gay and bursting with stereotypes. It has become offensive. And what is more offensive is the fact that the producers are not even aware how offensive they are. The whole invented Missandei/Greyworm romance is, apart from being pointless from the perspective of the plot, totally racist and patronising. Plus, it has zero plot value. Gay stereotype Loras is a caricature, not a character. From the tourney scene in season 1 to the latest episode we had no character development.

Jaime Lannister had a lovely development arc until they returned him to KG. Now, we have no idea who that man is, what is he up to and what drives him. And so on.

GRRM has created a beautifully interwoven Persian carpet of arcs and plots that create a complex pattern with deep universal messages and emotions. He has written complex characters and consistently developed them. The show at this point resembles an industrial two coloured synthetic carpet full of cigarette burns and food stains after a whole night of an intensive poker game that ended in a fight. I wish that carpet is as exciting as the poker game I have just described.

And why did all this happen? Because HBO gave a free reign to rookies who felt their first success, it got into their heads, inflated their egos and greed and reduced the size of their brains accordingly. So, at this point, D&D resemble Mad King and Euron Greyjoy respectively. Only a good slap in the face from the critics and the audience can save this show from becoming an unredeemable rape of GRRM's masterpiece.

NICELY SAID!!!!

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I'll be honest - as an isolated scene I thought it was pretty great television. It was uncomfortable to watch but that's as it should be. To me it's the surrounding context which I find reprehensible.

There is absolutely no doubt what Sansa's bedding "ceremony" was. It was a rape. She was not expecting it to do down that way and that is obvious by the way she was acting. Sansa was a perfect lady to Ramsay and was willing to be a dutiful bride but she learned only there after it was too late, what Ramsay Bolton really was and what was going to happen to her. She had no power all along, she was duped into this and had she known or felt that what was going to happen to her, she never would have consented to go to Winterfell. That night, she was raped. No question.

Well said. I have no idea why some people can't see this.

Exactly. The scene, taken by itself, while extremely sad, is not what is maddening. What makes the scene extremely irritating is the degradation of characters and the contrived plot lines to make it happen. D & D took a mallet and jammed in it in there - basic logic, realism, themes, and the story be damned.

Anybody that thinks the problem with the scene is just the scene itself isn't getting it.

Exactly so.

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Tyrion only mention of Tysha after S1 was the I was married to Tywinn. A few statement alluded it to but that is the extent.

Barristan took out about 14-15 guys and killed about 10 before the first stab. That is not novice. Not like it is fine but it was not some novice. It is a great swordsman way past his prime being taken down by numbers. It has some truth that the greatest fighter to die in a inglorious manner. People complain of the boss battle aspect the shows has. Well Barristan end is more close how it happens.

Locke was Vago Hoat replacement. They probably liked the actor a lot wanted a little follow-up and in the end the man who chopped off Jaime Lannister hand, that pushed Bran out the tower, was killed by a Bran warged Hordor. It is nice people made Locke an honorary book character.

Also, I am sorry but Ramsey did not ruin any plans. As despicable it is what occurred in the world it took place

would not be viewed as we should view it.

Also people need to understand HBO care far, far less of the books than D&D do regardless of their choices. Look no further than True Blood. It was touted as following the books and it lasted 1 season. It still some success and it was allow to continue regardless that it went as far from the source material. This idea that they should "save" this is quite amusing.

Edited by TheKitttenGuard
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They do get it. You don't like her show arc. That's it. The accusations of contrivance, lack of logic, degradation of character are just an opinion. One I don't agree with.

The difference petal is that everyone else is giving reasons for their opinions. Extremely good reasons, which have been formed from a critical thought process. You give an opinion, you should be able to back it up because a thought process must have taken place for you to come to that particular conclusion.

You've given no reasons and not once made the effort to explain your point of view. Nor have you ever offered a proper counter argument to those being presented that you "disagree" with.

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Among other things, one of the biggest issues I have with the whole setup, leading to Sansa's rape, was her marriage to the Boltons as a way to "avenge her family". That was just dumb. Why would anybody marry into the family that was responsible for the extermination of their own family, particularly one that was known to have violated the Guest Right, one of the most sacred laws in Westeros. The answer is they wouldn't. The whole setup to get Sansa to marry Ramsay was extremely stupid, contrived, and dumb.

And give them an heir so they can kill her, too. To force her into a rape plot is bad enough, but to make it seem like her choice, that's victim blaming, but they won't even call her a victim, because it's empowering...

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And give them an heir so they can kill her, too. To force her into a rape plot is bad enough, but to make it seem like her choice, that's victim blaming, but they won't even call her a victim, because it's empowering...

Yep, Cogman's explanation for it is utter horseshit.

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Let's not give D & D any ideas here. I'm sure they would love to have a Melisandre & Sansa scene. Of course, they probably have been already planning it.

Oh dear God that is probably why Mel is going with Stannis: so she can comfort Jeyansa after her escape.

I have the feeling that one day, GRRM and Homer will fund the "I hate D&D" club up there.

D&D should be worried if they do....they Greeks really know how to do revenge.

Also, Troy: bloody awful film.

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Tyrion only mention of Tysha after S1 was the I was married to Tywinn. A few statement alluded it to but that is the extent.

Barristan took out about 14-15 guys and killed about 10 before the first stab. That is not novice. Not like it is fine but it was not some novice. It is a great swordsman way past his prime being taken down by numbers. It has some truth that the greatest fighter to die in a inglorious manner. People complain of the boss battle aspect the shows has. Well Barristan end is more close how it happens.

Locke was Vago Hoat replacement. They probably liked the actor a lot wanted a little follow-up and in the end the man who chopped off Jaime Lannister hand, that pushed Bran out the tower, was killed by a Bran warged Hordor. It is nice people made Locke an honorary book character.

Also, I am sorry but Ramsey did not ruin any plans. As despicable it is what occurred in the world it took place

would not be viewed as we should view it.

Also people need to understand HBO care far, far less of the books than D&D do regardless of their choices. Look no further than True Blood. It was touted as following the books and it lasted 1 season. It still some success and it was allow to continue regardless that it went as far from the source material. This idea that they should "save" this is quite amusing.

Why do I care if D&D like an actor? This is an adaptation, not their original work.

They are hired to put GRRM's work on the TV screen, not invent some inferior fan fiction. Any fool can do that. What we have been watching this season has nothing to do with the original work. As I said before, in adaptation, main characters' arcs can be shortened, but not altered. It has nothing to do with Ramsey. Sansa never met Ramsey in the books.

You know that HBO doesn't care. You also know D&D do care. Are you an insider or are you inventing as you go along?

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Here they are, blaming Sansa for their ridiculous storyline:

The showrunner/writer, Benioff:

"She’s been traumatized by what she’s seen and she spent almost a couple years in shell shock. At a certain point she’s either going to die or survive and become stronger. She’s chosen the latter option and she’s learned from an incredibly devious teacher in Littlefinger."

 The showrunner/writer, Weiss:

"She can see the logic behind what he's saying and realize that this is an unpleasant but probably necessary step in getting back what was taken from her. She’s going into this dangerous, difficult situation where she thinks she’s going to guide the situation. The only thing she doesn’t know, that even Littlefinger doesn’t know, is exactly what Ramsay is."

The producer/writer, Cogman:

"This is a hardened woman making a choice and she sees this as the way to get back her homeland. Sansa has a wedding night in the sense she never thought she would with one of the monsters of the show. It’s pretty intense and awful and the character will have to deal with it."

 The director, Podeswa:

"She’s a very strong woman and she’s entered into this situation that she thinks she can handle... It's a situation she actually cannot really control, and she’s in deeper than she thinks she’s going to be. And I think from a dramatic point of view those things are very, very strong."

Edited by Le Cygne
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Here are reviews from major media outlets:

Washington Post -

The use of sexual violence as plot device is not new to Game of Thrones and it's not unique just to this show, either. But while on each occasion in the past it's been plenty disturbing, tonight's closing scene with Ramsay Bolton and Sansa was just flat-out disgusting.

Even if you've never read the books (myself included and that shouldn't limit anyone's enjoyment of the show) it's hard not to know that what happens to Sansa in this episode doesn't happen to Sansa in the books. The show's creators are free to take liberty with certain storylines and characters, but by putting Sansa into this situation, by taking a character that viewers are fully invested in, and subjecting her to the horrors of Ramsay Bolton, it's hard to interpret this as anything but using her rape as an emotionally manipulative plot device.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/style-blog/wp/2015/05/18/game-of-thrones-recap-season-5-episode-6-unbowed-unbent-unbroken-but-plenty-disgusted-and-disappointed/

Vanity Fair -

But did it really have to be rape that brought her low? Is that really the only horror Game of Thrones can imagine visiting on its female characters?... Even worse than the idea of Sansa needing this to motivate her into vengeance is the notion that the Theon character needed to watch her rape in order to snap out of whatever zombie/Reek fugue state he's been walking around in.

I'm afraid that is the show's interpretation, based on where the camera lingered. But the last thing we needed was to have a powerful young woman brought low in order for a male character to find redemption. No thank you... I think most audiences would have been happy with Sansa as avenging angel without subjecting her to a rape. After all, these are the people who killed her family.

http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2015/05/game-of-thrones-rape-sansa-stark

Wired -

There have been a lot of complaints over the years about the way Game of Thrones deals with rape, and it's earned them. It has a tendency to use rape sensationally and frequently, not to mention the troubling incident last season where a director filmed a rape scene and didn't even realize it...

Forcing her back into the role of victim and sexually humiliating her at the hands of yet another sadistic fiance adds nothing that we haven't seen before, and indeed, feels regressive. All the forward momentum of her character development is undercut by this assault, transforming her back into the same little girl she was at Kings Landing, weeping as her dress was torn off. Shoehorning additional abuse and rape into her story at this point isn't just upsetting; it's boring and counterproductive. Poorly done, show. Poorly done.

http://www.wired.com/2015/05/game-of-thrones-recap-s05e06/

USA Today -

The scene of course sparked all kinds of outcry for the disastrous way the show has treated Sansa (who in the books, is rape-free and nowhere near Winterfell or Ramsay at this point). Was giving Sansa this storyline really necessary? Was this a sign of the show's completely misogynistic way of treating its female characters? For many viewers though, it wasn't about loyalty to the books so much as loyalty to the character and integrity of Sansa Stark, who seems like she was handed a rape storyline to make her more sympathetic or give Theon the push he needs to lash out against Ramsay.

http://entertainthis.usatoday.com/2015/05/18/author-george-r-r-martin-responds-to-game-of-thrones-sansa-stark-rape-scene/

The Atlantic -

I've rarely, if ever, felt less enthusiastic about the show than I did tonight, when the screen faded to black to the sound of Sansa's groans...

Sansa is a girl whose body has been traded to further someone else's ambitions. She doesn't have a choice; she's never had a choice. Sansa has always been good at summoning her haughtiest attitude to protect herself, but it isn't working this time. She's all alone, and she's petrified. The North may remember, but the Stark loyalists aren't much good when she's being raped on her wedding night. In Kings Landing, Sansa at least had the Hound looking out for her at the beginning; having turned away Brienne, she has no personal protection...

Gratuitous sexual violence is bad enough, but gratuitous sexual violence in a ridiculous storyline that not only doesn't advance our understanding of key characters but rather makes us more confused - that may be the greatest sin of all.

http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2015/05/game-of-thrones-roundtable-season-5-episode-six-unbowed-unbent-unbroken/393503/

Radio Times -

This week's episode ended with a particularly grim scene for Sansa Stark. It's bound to be controversial in a show that's been criticised for the prevalence of sexual violence against women, and especially for adding rape scenes where there were none in the source material...

But it's also hard not to feel the rape was a little gratuitous and emblematic of the show's troubling tendency to show sexual violence quite casually as a mere plot point (such as the sex scene between Jaime and Cersei in the book that became a rape scene in the show for no apparent reason). It did happen to Ramsay's unfortunate wife in the book but offstage, so to speak.

http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2015-05-18/game-of-thrones-series-5-episode-6-review-a-dark-and-disturbing-wedding-in-winterfell

Salon -

To exist as a woman on a cable drama is to understand that at some point you're probably going to be raped by someone you know or in the presence of someone you know or as a punishment to someone you know, but it's okay because in the end, it just gives you something to overcome and everyone knows that having something to overcome is the only way to prove that you are a strong woman...

This was a choice and the choice was to marry off a teenage girl, rape her, and not even have the dignity to care primarily about her feelings about her fate... The character who had shown the most growth and potential for becoming her own woman.. is broken down in a matter of minutes, then not even given enough agency to suffer her own assault.

http://www.salon.com/2015/05/18/game_of_thrones_recap_the_honor_of_your_presence_is_requested_at_another_brutal_wedding/

Salon -

So with this last scene, I think the showrunners have betrayed the trust of their audience, by depicting a scene of brutality against Sansa Stark for no purpose. We already knew that Ramsay Bolton was a sadist and an abuser of women, we already knew that Theon Greyjoy was his tormented puppet. Showing Sansa's dress ripped, showing her face shoved down into the bed, hearing her screams did nothing to reveal character, or advance the plot, or critique anything about Westerosi society or about our own conceptions of medieval society that hasn't already been critiqued.

http://www.salon.com/2015/05/18/game_of_thrones_politics_secret_missions_desperate_lies_and_the_dangerous_art_of_the_double_cross/

Salon -

... “Mad Max: Fury Road” does not feature a rape scene. The film is a vision of fighting oppression, a battle epic of overcoming the odds. Rape happened in this world, yes. But there is no reason to depict it in the film.

The problem, as ever, with “Game Of Thrones”’ rape is not that it exists but that it fails to adequately justify why it exists. Miller’s film has incredible vision and purpose and energy. Every moment is considered and vital. “Game Of Thrones” doesn’t feel that way. A world of violence is not a narrative, it’s just a theater of horror. There is a real disconnect in this show between the character arcs and the brutality of each moment; between the subtle storytelling and the entirely unsubtle treatment of its women. It creates a dissonance of attempting to identify with characters before seeing them suffer almost cartoonish horror in the arena of the show; the violence is titillation.

But rape isn’t mere violence; it’s not a punch to the head or a knife through the ribs. It’s an act that attempts to divorce a person’s soul from their body; to imitate the language of intimacy in what is purely cruelty. It is a kind of murder, except afterwards, the victim can still walk and talk and breathe. I question any depiction of rape that seeks to add to a woman’s violation in the text by further robbing her of her dignity in how that story is told. And at this point, with HBO’s “Game Of Thrones,” I’m questioning three.

http://www.salon.com/2015/05/19/rape_in_westeros_what_game_of_thrones_could_learn_from_mad_max_fury_road/

Hypable -

But this begs the question; why should Sansa have to deal with such a thing at all? What character development could be wrung from this tragedy that could not have been created without a violent rape? Why does Game of Thrones - and so much popular entertainment - revert to this horrific crime when they want their female characters to grow?... There are better ways to sculpt characters than sexual exploitation. There are more productive ways to cause pain than rape. And Game of Thrones has lost the luxury of further indulging in this social blight; it is way past time they do better. The Sansa Starks of the world are waiting.

http://www.hypable.com/game-of-thrones-sansa-stark-rape/

Flavorwire -

The audience doesn't really see the event that ends Unbent, Unbowed, Unbroken, just two close-ups: the first on a terrified Sansa, the second on a man who identified himself as Theon Greyjoy just hours before. The second closeup lasts far longer, the emotion on its subject's face rawer. That's because, to make an already disgusting situation even more so, what happens to Sansa isn't even about Sansa; it's about teaching Theon he's still Reek...

Which brings us to the question of just why Sansa's rape had to happen. Ramsay's assault is the third example of a phenomenon critic Sonia Saraiya pointed out last year: Game of Thrones, the show, adding instances of sexual assault that do not appear in Game of Thrones, the books. (In the original storyline, Sansa remains in the Vale and does not return to Winterfell at all, let alone marry Ramsay Bolton.) Unlike the Red Wedding, in other words, there's no reason David Benioff and D.B. Weiss had to bring one of the shows most interesting character evolutions right back to square one...

But my immediate feeling after Theon's face cut to black and the credits started rolling was that, sometime in the last two seasons, Game of Thrones crossed the line between showing what a cold, hard world its women live in and abusing them past the point of being useful to the narrative, or even interesting.

http://flavorwire.com/519349/game-of-thrones-season-5-episode-6-recap-unbowed-unbent-unbroken

Buddy TV -

This is not the first time a major female character has been raped in the course of the series. There was Daenerys on her wedding night to Khal Drogo all the way back in the first episode. Then, just last season Jaime raped Cersei in the Sept of Baelor. (If you want to be the type of person who puts an asterisk on the Jaime and Cersei scene, fine be that person. The director didn't intend for that scene to come off as a rape. The intention becomes irrelevant because that's how it appeared for the majority of the audience). In both cases, there was no ramifications for either act. Neither woman acted like they just had been raped or violated in any way. Dany even grew to love Khal Drogo...

Even if this silence from these women is an accurate depiction of the "time", it doesn't excuse Game of Thrones' depiction of its universe. There are plenty of ways to show that women aren't seen as powerful in this world without sexual violence. Game of Thrones has even done it in different areas of Cersei's storyline. Margaery is constantly trying to maneuver herself to a position of power and has to take unconventional avenues because of her gender. There is a difference between a horrifying act that says something disturbing about the world and just cheap shock factor. The end of "Unbowed, Unbent and Unbroken" was just that cheap and unabashed shock factor.

http://www.buddytv.com/articles/game-of-thrones/did-game-of-thrones-go-too-far-56568.aspx

io9 -

Guys, I think I reached the breaking point with the show today. This is by far the most frustrating, unsatisfying, and mean-spirited show ever. However strong the theme was, no matter what kind of framework it builds for a bombastic finale, this episode makes me want to quit the show. And all of it is encapsulated in that final scene. Boy, that final scene...

I also hope they're not using rape just as a cheap plot device. I guess we won't really know until the end of the season, but it's not hard to imagine that the writers are using it to say "Look how evil Ramsay is, making Theon watch Sansa getting raped! and Poor Sansa and Theon! Fans will cheer extra hard when Ramsay dies!" I really hope that's not the case, but the show had been utterly tone deaf regarding rape before.

http://observationdeck.io9.com/unsullied-eyes-game-of-thrones-5-06-5-17-15-1705174564

The Mary Sue -

The show has creators. They make the choices. They chose to use rape as a plot device. Again.

In this particular instance, rape is not necessary to Sansa's character development (she's already overcome abusive violence at the hands of men); it is not necessary to establish Ramsay as a bad guy (we already know he is); it is not necessary to prove how bad things were for women (Game of Thrones exists in a fictional universe, and we already know its exceptionally patriarchal). Rape here, like in all instances, is not a necessary story-driving device.

http://www.themarysue.com/we-will-no-longer-be-promoting-hbos-game-of-thrones/

The Vine -

This scene never happened in the books, and never had to, except as a consequence of D.B. Weiss and David Benioff taking such unnecessary detours from the source material... The show, however, seems to take disturbing pleasure in putting the brutalisation of these women front and center. So you have to ask: if D.B. Weiss and David Benioff insist on deviating from the books, why are they doing it in a way that these female characters are repeatedly tortured and victimised? Westeros is a cruel and unforgiving place for women, true, but there are better ways of depicting that than revelling in these assaults.

http://www.thevine.com.au/emtertainment/news/that-shocking-scene-from-this-weeks-game-of-thrones-never-had-to-happen-20150518-300952/

Digital Spy -

What the sequence is, is gratuitous in its use of Sansa as a character. It's perhaps the biggest instance of a change from the source material becoming seriously problematic. In the books, Sansa never marries Ramsay: it's someone else, a character the audience is far less familiar with. Switching things up so that it's Sansa makes sense from a streamlining perspective, but it also places what feels like an unnecessary further burden on the character. It begins to lend Sophie Turner's corner of the show an unpleasant whiff of misery porn.

The big question is what has that sequence achieved, other than some great performances from the cast? Sansa hated the Boltons already. They killed her family; of course she hates them. And she's suffered emotional and physical abuse before, and emerged from it a stronger person. Did we really need rape added to the pile?

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/tv/s151/game-of-thrones/recaps/a648069/game-of-thrones-recap-an-unpleasant-whiff-of-misery-porn.html

TV Overmind -

Beginning with Arya and ending with Sansa, Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken is an episode that explores that quest for inner truth; unfortunately, it does so by leaving the audience with another troublesome and particularly unnecessary depiction of sexual violence, throwing a wrench into any assumed progress the show's made in that department this season. And in that scene, that potential moment of strength for the character, Unbowed undoes it with a series of unpleasant shots and sounds, literally ending on the screams of Sansa as Ramsay forcibly rapes her, while making Reek watch from the doorway.

The moment Ramsay asks Reek to stay, Unbowed felt like it was going to that place again, forcing this story of sexual assault onto Sansa for nothing beyond shock factor. There's no reason Sansa needs to be subjected to this to depict her toughness, or Ramsays inherent ugliness; if the wedding bed scene is just existing to reinforce the assumed order of things in Winterfell, without offering any character development with it, why is it there? This is a rape scene for the sake of having a shocking rape scene, and it drags down the entire episode behind it.

http://www.tvovermind.com/reviews/game-of-thrones-season-5-episode-6-review-unbowed-unbent-unbroken/

Zap2It -

For five seasons, "Game of Thrones" has inflicted Sansa Stark (Sophie Turner) with some of the most horrifying storylines of the series. Halfway through Season 5, though, she got served the most disturbing yet when she was raped by her new husband, Ramsay Bolton (Iwan Rheon). Unsurprisingly, this is a turn that repulsed viewers, with some going as far as to say they're done watching the show... Why have her survive Joffrey (Jack Gleeson) if she was going to go through very similar -- and eventually worse -- treatment at the hands of a new tormentor? ...

The look in her eyes when she realizes what Ramsay means to do to her shows that she's learned better than to do anything but accept this. Still, being raped isn't something she can just bounce back from, no matter how she steeled herself for it. It's worth noting that this storyline is a deviation for Sansa. In George R.R. Martin's novels, a woman named Jeyne Poole marries Ramsay... In the show, no matter what comes next, Sansa will always be a victim of sexual abuse. No matter what strength she continues to have after this encounter, she will always have lost her virginity at the hands of a monster.

http://www.zap2it.com/blogs/game_of_thrones_season_5_rape_sansa_stark-2015-05

New York Daily News -

What happened to Sansa was everything I was afraid would happen when it was made clear she had to marry Ramsey Bolton a few episodes ago. Though what happened to Jeyne Pool in the book was actually more disturbing, watching Sansa be raped onscreen was positively sickening. In the book, Sansa was learning to wield and manipulate power in the Vale after a long period of victimization but the show pretty much added a new, and in my opinion, entirely unnecessary victimization to her story. More concerningly, after Jaime's rape of Cersei last season, it's yet another rape Benioff and Weiss decided to add to the show that was not in the text and at this point, we don't need anymore.

http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/channel-surfer/game-thrones-recap-sand-snakes-attack-blog-entry-1.2226147

Decider -

Sansa's rape, then, seems like a another example of a strange trend that the show's showrunners David Benioff and D.B. Weiss have employed into their series. When last season's rape scene stirred much controversy, AV Club's Sonia Saraiya pointed out the show and the books major tonal differences. These are questions many of us ask in the wake of Sansa's rape. Why? Why did this sexual assault, which did not take place in the book, need to happen on the show? Why did this character need to be broken down even more than she already has been? Why did we see it framed as a traumatic event for the man who witnessed it?

When do we draw the line between using sexual violence as a plot device to strengthen a woman's character (and to give her motivation for her later actions) and to display the inhumanity and evil nature of a man who perpetrates it - and as what it seems to truly be: a near-sadistic move on the showrunners to destroy these beloved characters? Game of Thrones has not dealt with sexual violence well in the past, considering that the rapes of both Daenerys and Cersei seemed to go forgotten - even by the victims themselves. Why, then, would the show push yet another envelope when its audience has suffered alongside its many female characters already?

http://decider.com/2015/05/18/game-of-thrones-too-much-rape/

The Concourse -

For some time now, Game of Thrones episodes have followed a familiar pattern: Large swaths of episode are eaten up by the infinitesimal advancement of various plot lines, many of which are deeply boring, and those scenes are then offset by the inclusion of some Cool Shit. Usually, this Cool Shit takes the form of a sword fight, or a dragon cameo, or a Sam shivving a White Walker. Last night’s episode seemed to be following that pattern—Arya walked through a door! Cersei had some conversations! Tyrion got sidetracked!—but instead of a dragon, we got a rape. This was an episode that said, “Sorry for making you sit through 55 minutes of nothing really happening, but here, enjoy this rape!”...

It’s clear that the show runners have written themselves into some corners, and the show is in bad shape if their idea of writing themselves out of those corners is to have Sansa Stark raped for no reason. The problem isn’t that this episode included a rape, but that it did so in the service of bad storytelling. It told the audience nothing that wasn’t already known, and it didn’t advance any plot lines beyond where they already were. It was just there, as inert as it was unpleasant. Unfortunately, that’s starting to become the best way to describe the show in general.

http://theconcourse.deadspin.com/game-of-thrones-is-gross-exploitative-and-totally-out-1705235364

Black Nerd Problems -

Angela Davis remarks on watching the break of a little bird…

Sansa is a powder keg of possibility. Unfortunately, the possibility always lays in the hands of the men that possess her. If I say torture, what I mean is that your surname is a rosebush without the blooming flowers. The narrow path that enables Sansa to pass from young woman to the adulthood her mother promised her, often passes between men who are not quite satisfied playing with their toys yet.

That may be Ramsay Bolton or the showrunners themselves for that matter. Now you finally see the burden of womanhood and how it pertains to legacy. Congratulate Sansa as she carries her fathers name into a room where a sadist may take everything she believes in. Congratulate Sansa for the beautiful wedding gown that pools like blood on the dirty floor beneath her. Congratulate every woman that has the privilege of men telling them what they must endure to be great...

But the real question is, did it work for you? Did you feel the agony, the pain and the violation as the camera zoomed in… on a man’s face. How very painful. That must have been. For him.

http://blacknerdproblems.com/game-of-thrones-recap-unbowed-unbent-unbroken/

Grantland -

But I don’t think there’s really any storytelling acrobatics that can forgive what happened next, particularly when it all seems so clear where it’s going. Or was that itself the trick? That instead of giving the audience the sight of what we’ve long wanted and expected — Reek reclaiming his essentially not-terrible Theon-ness by stabbing Ramsay in the throat — we were given something not needed at all? Sansa’s anguished screaming as she was violently assaulted by her new husband was hideous, full stop. But it was almost worse the way Jeremy Podeswa’s camera lingered on Alfie Allen’s tear-filled eyes, as if his violation was somehow equal to Sansa’s; as if this disgusting act was somehow part of Theon’s long and ugly path to redemption, not a brutal and unwarranted violation. Five seasons in, Game of Thrones is long past the point of earning gold stars simply by showing us the worst possible thing. There’s a fine line between exposing the dirty truth of the world and wallowing in it.

http://grantland.com/hollywood-prospectus/game-of-thrones-season-5-episode-6-recap-unbowed-unbent-unbroken/

Edited by Le Cygne
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Why do I care if D&D like an actor? This is an adaptation, not their original work.

They are hired to put GRRM's work on the TV screen, not invent some inferior fan fiction. Any fool can do that. What we have been watching this season has nothing to do with the original work. As I said before, in adaptation, main characters' arcs can be shortened, but not altered. It has nothing to do with Ramsey. Sansa never met Ramsey in the books.

You know that HBO doesn't care. You also know D&D do care. Are you an insider or are you inventing as you go along?

Fine then they should of just drop the character aftet S3 not to be mention. People seem to like him though.

HBO hire D&D to make money and get new subscribers. HBO likes what the story was about. The corporate level of HBO are not people who have read series several times, certain books dozen or more, and dedicated time to reading people view on prophecy, secret identities, and world background.

D&D are not as deep into those parts as other people also. I do know it is far more than the people in the Upper management of HBO. It may sound fantastic but the one main drive is to make money and increasing its life span is one way to do it.

Also I do think D&D are as much human as GRRM and are subject to fatigue and possible burn out. They are making sure a show that is written and produced to be shown by April every year, and are doing it with the largest production in cast and locations shoots. They have been doing the project since 2006, have a goal of doing it in roughly 10 years, and lost a year already with S1 issues. They do have care for the project and I do know that with HBO the motivation is money regardless of the merit. You do not need to be an insider to know it. You just have to know it is a business.

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Why do I care if D&D like an actor? This is an adaptation, not their original work.

They are hired to put GRRM's work on the TV screen, not invent some inferior fan fiction. Any fool can do that. What we have been watching this season has nothing to do with the original work. As I said before, in adaptation, main characters' arcs can be shortened, but not altered. It has nothing to do with Ramsey. Sansa never met Ramsey in the books.

They are hired to bring high ratings and subscriptions and sell BluRays for HBO. Nobody at HBO gives a damn if it's a good adaptation or not or how close it is to the books. If the ratings are high and it brings subscriptions in, that's all that matters.

Edited by David Selig
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Fine then they should of just drop the character aftet S3 not to be mention. People seem to like him though.

HBO hire D&D to make money and get new subscribers. HBO likes what the story was about. The corporate level of HBO are not people who have read series several times, certain books dozen or more, and dedicated time to reading people view on prophecy, secret identities, and world background.

D&D are not as deep into those parts as other people also. I do know it is far more than the people in the Upper management of HBO. It may sound fantastic but the one main drive is to make money and increasing its life span is one way to do it.

Also I do think D&D are as much human as GRRM and are subject to fatigue and possible burn out. They are making sure a show that is written and produced to be shown by April every year, and are doing it with the largest production in cast and locations shoots. They have been doing the project since 2006, have a goal of doing it in roughly 10 years, and lost a year already with S1 issues. They do have care for the project and I do know that with HBO the motivation is money regardless of the merit. You do not need to be an insider to know it. You just have to know it is a business.

Yes, it is a business. And in a serious TV or film production, rookies do not produce, write and direct. Ego maniacs do. And badly. The budget is massive. There is enough money to hire good writers who actually do not need to care for GRRM's work. They just need to adapt it to screen. Simple. They have the books and then they write additional dialogues, cut here and there, merge some side characters if necessary etc. That is what an adaptation is.

It certainly is not inventing things that are not in the books. Especially when it comes to main protagonists. I am sorry, but before entering into any discussion on this, one must remember this shit is advertised as an adaptation of GRRM's work. It's a false advertisement. Season 4 departed from adaptation. Season 5 is pure fan fiction. GRRM should sue them for breach of contract. He did not allow a use of his world so that sub-mediocre writers can invent their banal, illogical, pointless, racist, homophobic bullshit. He allowed an adaptation of his work.

Any discussion of this fan fiction should be restricted to warning that it is indeed a fan fiction and ultimate rubbish.

In the UK for example, there would have been an uproar had any of the British classics been butchered like this by a TV show. Americans, it seems, do not care when their best written works are turned into a mockery. Instead, some of them have the audacity to demonstrate their own ignorance about the meaning of the word adaptation by claiming that D&D moronic duo actually "improved" the original. I do pity American writers if that is their fan base.

Edited by Modesty Lannister
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Yes, it is a business. And in a serious TV or film production, rookies do not produce, write and direct.

From a business POV the show is a huge success, and that's what HBO cares about, so they were right to hire D&D.

There is enough money to hire good writers who actually do not need to care for GRRM's work. They just need to adapt it to screen. Simple. They have the books and then they write additional dialogues, cut here and there, merge some side characters if necessary etc. That is what an adaptation is.

Why bother when the show is super popular already? it's a business.

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They are hired to bring high ratings and subscriptions and sell BluRays for HBO. Nobody at HBO gives a damn if it's a good adaptation or not or how close it is to the books. If the ratings are high and it brings subscriptions in, that's all that matters.

No need to state the obvious. Every show wants high ratings. So, it's high time to put some pressure on the unsullied public and point out that they are not watching anything resembling ASOIAF. Btw, all the unsullied I know have remarked that this season is much worse than all the rest, that plots are nonsensical and confusing. So, do not delude yourself that the ratings will last. And the more we protest, the more attention HBO bosses will pay to us.

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From a business POV the show is a huge success, and that's what HBO cares about, so they were right to hire D&D.

Why bother when the show is super popular already? it's a business.

It's an artistic business, so it is more complicated than this. If you think a business should be conducted with no ethics, then I can reply that concentration camps were also business. Slave work in service of a war effort. Is this how you see the world?

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No need to state the obvious. Every show wants high ratings. So, it's high time to put some pressure on the unsullied public and point out that they are not watching anything resembling ASOIAF.

Why would they give a damn about that?

Btw, all the unsullied I know have remarked that this season is much worse than all the rest, that plots are nonsensical and confusing. So, do not delude yourself that the ratings will last.

They may drop somewhat, but chances are they will stay high enough for HBO's liking and the show will last full 7 seasons.

It's an artistic business, so it is more complicated than this. If you think a business should be conducted with no ethics, then I can reply that concentration camps were also business. Slave work in service of a war effort. Is this how you see the world?

That's how HBO or any other big movie/TV company sees the world. They are in this to make money.

What ethics, BTW? HBO bought the rights, they are allowed to change the story as much as they want. Nothing unethical about it. Comparing this to concentration camps is ridiculous.

Martin is laughing all the way to the bank, he doesn't need you or anyone else defending the sanctity of his work in this case.

Edited by David Selig
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