[Book Spoilers] How many of the readers will continue watching this show after Season 5?

[LongRider]

We are better than bookreaders. They're too spoiled and too entitled. Were also more social instead of a bookorm.

Can't spell with worth a shit though. This book snob won't be watching the show anymore.

[The One And Only]

Most of the material is from the depths of the show writers' rectums.

But hey, they totally could have written one of the most important works of fantasy ever. In fact they could have written it better! Too bad rhey were busy writing the Troy script and some second rate pseudo historical fiction nobody ever cared about.

Cocerning the rectum.... the same could be said of GRRM for the 4th book....

[Johnsmith]

What I mean is all the stories that are going to be included in this book are already released. Three Dunk & Egg stories. So it's not like this book will take away a lot of time from Martin.

I understand what you mean, I didn't mean to be harsh. The World of Westeros as well.

I was just trying to do the math, calculate, probability. On a foreseeable release

It is not taking away time, I didn't mean to imply. What I meant was it won't likely occur from a publishing viewpoint not within a year anyway. We might as well extended that to after the show now, for publicity reasons. Although who knows it is a hot potato, either way

[Gogossos]

Cocerning the rectum.... the same could be said of GRRM for the 4th book....

Nothing, I mean nothing, makes a lick of sense about Littlefinger's plan, his motivation or even his speed of travel. GRRM, on the other hand, you might not be enthralled by his 4th book but you can never accuse him of pulling shit out of his arse. AFFC had Jaqen, Sarella and the Hound all hiding in plain sight on the text. If he can pull that out of his rectum then I sure can't wait for his next book.

[Rena Melville]

Nothing, I mean nothing, makes a lick of sense about Littlefinger's plan, his motivation or even his speed of travel. GRRM, on the other hand, you might not be enthralled by his 4th book but you can never accuse him of pulling shit out of his arse. AFFC had Jaqen, Sarella and the Hound all hiding in plain sight on the text. If he can pull that out of his rectum then I sure can't wait for his next book.

Let's crowfund GRRM some laxatives if we can get the next books faster that way :drunk:

[Lord Eddard]

Cocerning the rectum.... the same could be said of GRRM for the 4th book....

Or even for the 5th.

Tyrion and Dany in Dance were unreadable. Cheers for D&D for converting that inferior source material into something watchable.

[David Selig]

Invest in better writers? They are the main show writers.

That is the problem right there. Their writing sucks.

[Dolorous Gabe]

Cocerning the rectum.... the same could be said of GRRM for the 4th book....

Or even for the 5th.

Tyrion and Dany in Dance were unreadable. Cheers for D&D for converting that inferior source material into something watchable.

You seem to completely miss the problems with AFFC and ADWD, which I'll go into after explaining what's good about them. I would say that both books are massively improved upon reread, because as the reader you're not so invested in the story of the characters you were hoping to read about: you know now what to expect. You also spot the intended themes of the AFFC, which are hit pretty strongly if you're paying attention; the state of Westeros post-Wot5K and the focus on the troubles of women trying to achieve things in a patriarchal world. ADWD brings it back to the main story, albeit slowly, with the return of Jon, Tyrion and Dany (which is also very interesting when you consider the title of the book). Some of his best prose is written in these books too. What's lacking in story advancement is gained in themes.

GRRM is pretty good at avoiding fixing a problem with something highly convenient. That's not to say that nothing is convenient but that's often the nature of fiction and even reality in fact, but he tries to avoid it if he can. He treats the situations he finds his characters in with seriousness. That's why we have the 'Meerenese Knot'. He took Dany into that situation before realising there was no easy way to resolve it, but he felt compelled to treat the situation he'd written her into with as much honesty as possible. I'd rather he does that than come up with some crap that doesn't make sense.

It is strongly arguable that the books are not edited as well as they should be. A number of story strands could have been cut down with less new POV characters introduced. There are probably 2-3 chapters that are unnecessary and should have been merged into another of the same character's chapters. I personally found it interesting to see different POVs but from a narrative standpoint it creates too many issues taking the story forward because too much requires further establishment.

It boils down to editing. AFFC and ADWD are still good books and that becomes more apparent on reread, but they could have been edited down a lot better.

D&D aren't editing them down for the better; they're editing out the themes and the narrative sense, and treating major character arcs and motivations as if they have no relevance to good storytelling.

[TheAwesomeVargoHoat]

Considering the Game of Thrones TV show has moved far, far away from being an adaptation and more into a fanfiction, I don't even see the two ending the same way. Perhaps that's the Ironborn fanboy in me talking, and hoping that the show cutting them is more due to D@D being bad and not the Ironborn being irrelevant to the final plot.

I believe regardless of the final books, the Game of Thrones TV show is going to end with Dany on the Iron Thrones, where as George has the balls to kill off KHALEEEEEESSSSIIIIII. D@D do not.

[Winter's Knight]

Or even for the 5th.

Tyrion and Dany in Dance were unreadable. Cheers for D&D for converting that inferior source material into something watchable.

Unreadable? Really? Do you even read bro?

There was a dip in quality in Dance but it was hardly unreadable.

Even Tyrion and Dany's chapters were nowhere near as bad in quality as you seem to imply.

... but Daenerys Targaryen had other children, tens of thousands who had hailed her as their mother when she broke their chains. She thought of Stalwart Shield, of Missandeis brother, of the woman Rylona Rhee, who had played the harp so beautifully. No marriage would ever bring them back to life, but if a husband could help end the slaughter, then she owed it to her dead to marry.

...

Tyrions armpits were prickly with perspiration, and a bead of sweat was trickling down his scar beneath the oversized, ill-fitting helm, yet for one absurd moment he felt almost like Jaime, riding out onto a tourney field with lance in hand, his golden armor flashing in the sun.

When the laughter began, the dream dissolved. He was no champion, just a dwarf on a pig clutching a stick, capering for the amusement of some restless rum-soaked sailors in hopes of sweetening their mood. Somewhere down in hell his father was seething and Joffrey was chuckling. Tyrion could feel their cold dead eyes watching this mummers farce, as avid as the crew of the Selaesori Qhoran.

[dannyk65]

The One And Only, on 22 May 2015 - 06:45 AM, said:

Cocerning the rectum.... the same could be said of GRRM for the 4th book....

Or even for the 5th.

Tyrion and Dany in Dance were unreadable. Cheers for D&D for converting that inferior source material into something watchable.

For only finding 60% of the books 'readible' you guys sure go on the internet to slam it and defend the show based upon it an awful, awful lot....

:dunno:

[Lord Eddard]

Unreadable? Really? Do you even read bro?

There was a dip in quality in Dance but it was hardly unreadable.

Even Tyrion and Dany's chapters were nowhere near as bad in quality as you seem to imply.

"Where do whores go?" ad nauseam - Tyrion's storyline

"Should I stay or should I go? Or should I suck Daario's c***?" - Dany's storyline

Look, I'm not slamming Dance in its entirety, it had its moments - the North, for example - but those two POVs were really atrocious. Compared to the brilliant first three books, there is not a "dip in quality" in Dance, it's a plummet. The editor is to blame as well (as pointed out by Dolorous Gabe) but Martin so much the more. Martin obviously hated to write this book (as he alludes himself in the closing pages) and it shows.

D&D have done a commendable job to salvage bits and pieces of this mess and to craft a coherent and interesting story.

The show couldn't touch the books in the first three seasons but after Storm was done the tables turned. Now it is the show that leaves the books behind. When (if..) Winds come out we will see whether Martin can deliver quality again. I hope so..

[Gogossos]

Or even for the 5th.

Tyrion and Dany in Dance were unreadable. Cheers for D&D for converting that inferior source material into something watchable.

Personally I loved both books. People got invested in the War of the Five Kings too much and were bereft when that war ended. I moved with the times, the impact of the war and the refocus to how the future leaders (Jon and Dany) would one day rule.

Ruling is hard. This was maybe my answer to Tolkien, whom, as much as I admire him, I do quibble with. Lord of the Rings had a very medieval philosophy: that if the king was a good man, the land would prosper. We look at real history and it’s not that simple. Tolkien can say that Aragorn became king and reigned for a hundred years, and he was wise and good. But Tolkien doesn’t ask the question: What was Aragorn’s tax policy? Did he maintain a standing army? What did he do in times of flood and famine? And what about all these orcs? By the end of the war, Sauron is gone but all of the orcs aren’t gone – they’re in the mountains. Did Aragorn pursue a policy of systematic genocide and kill them? Even the little baby orcs, in their little orc cradles?

GRRM

If it isn't clear enough, there is a deliberate change of pace after that war ended. When Jon is auditing food stocks or when Dany is getting a new irrigation system built, people yawn and claim the books have fallen in quality. But when Dany or Jon take over the IT the reasons for these books existing will be clear. Of course that is hard for a tv show know for shocks and titillation to pull off. But that shouldn't mean this idea that the books lack in quality should be left unchallenged.

[Lord Eddard]

The One And Only, on 22 May 2015 - 06:45 AM, said:

For only finding 60% of the books 'readible' you guys sure go on the internet to slam it and defend the show based upon it an awful, awful lot....

:dunno:

For not liking the show and finding it 'unwatchible" you guys sure go on the internet to slam it an awful, awful lot...

:dunno:

[dannyk65]

For not liking the show and finding it 'unwatchible" you guys sure go on the internet to slam it an awful, awful lot...

:dunno:

When did I ever claim the show was 'unwatchable'???

[Dolorous Gabe]

Personally I loved both books. People got invested in the War of the Five Kings too much and were bereft when that war ended. I moved with the times, the impact of the war and the refocus to how the future leaders (Jon and Dany) would one day rule.

Ruling is hard. This was maybe my answer to Tolkien, whom, as much as I admire him, I do quibble with. Lord of the Rings had a very medieval philosophy: that if the king was a good man, the land would prosper. We look at real history and it’s not that simple. Tolkien can say that Aragorn became king and reigned for a hundred years, and he was wise and good. But Tolkien doesn’t ask the question: What was Aragorn’s tax policy? Did he maintain a standing army? What did he do in times of flood and famine? And what about all these orcs? By the end of the war, Sauron is gone but all of the orcs aren’t gone – they’re in the mountains. Did Aragorn pursue a policy of systematic genocide and kill them? Even the little baby orcs, in their little orc cradles?

GRRM

If it isn't clear enough, there is a deliberate change of pace after that war ended. When Jon is auditing food stocks or when Dany is getting a new irrigation system built, people yawn and claim the books have fallen in quality. But when Dany or Jon take over the IT the reasons for these books existing will be clear. Of course that is hard for a tv show know for shocks and titillation to pull off. But that shouldn't mean this idea that the books lack in quality should be left unchallenged.

Well said. I fully agree.

[Facebookless Man]

Watching a disappointing adaptation of your favorite book series and writing reasoned criticism of its failings is totally the same as registering to an internet forum just so you can insult the people criticizing a TV show - and insult the author of the original work while you're at it.

Totally.

[dbunting]

It's so predictable how these threads go off the cliff. Title, will book readers continue to watch after this season....18 pages later, books suck show is better, screw you books are superior show writing sucks..blah blah blah.

There are two things I am looking forward to. Sundays episode and TWOW, I will enjoy them both.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

It looks like the main justification so far is "book 4 and 5 sucked". It's not that simple. Book 4 and 5 had a very specific criticism that D&D didn't fix. They changed everything else.

Because, those people who said they don't like book 4, did they think Jaime's plot was bad? Jaime's plot was one of the best storylines from the books. It was not only changed. It was cut completely.

People complained the Sand Snakes were cartoonish. The show made them even more cartonish.

People said Doran did nothing for the past 15 years. He might have not done nothing in the show as well as there is no Arianne or Quentyn to betroth to a Dragon.

People thought Brienne's chapters were dull as she was just around. Guess what? Brienne is also just around beating people for the sake of it.

People felt Tyrion's travels were boring. He's also in a very boring narrative now, just that instead of getting bored with the Griffs, he's boring us with Jorah and Varys. Because 100 jokes about his cock can save the fact he's just around... like in the books. He's just around :dunno:

So, how is that the show improved the books? :dunno:

Yes, some said the books lack action. If one sees the books 4 and 5 as the introduction for the second part of the story it's understandable. Yet, I can see some don't like the pace. But having a more fluid narrative isn't the same as including shocking scenes for the sake of being shocking.

[Winter's Knight]

The show couldn't touch the books in the first three seasons but after Storm was done the tables turned. Now it is the show that leaves the books behind. When (if..) Winds come out we will see whether Martin can deliver quality again. I hope so..

Can you honestly look at the Dany quote I posted and tell me the show has tranlated those motivations on screen better? Really?