[Book Spoilers] How many of the readers will continue watching this show after Season 5?

[Lovely Lyanna]

Just at an overall level, I'm scared of where they appear to be going. They've taken A++ source material and are deciding to get creative, and what started out as an A+ project is quickly turning into a C as they lose sight of the actual goal. There's no real way to tell until it's done, and hopefully I'll end up eating my words, but I'm terrified right now.

There is no way that source material could be called A++. AFFC is just a meandering mess.

[JonSnow4President]

There is no way that source material could be called A++. AFFC is just a meandering mess.

I'm saying ASOIAF as a whole, not just AFFC. AFFC was my least favorite of the 5. It is still one of the better books I've read overall, even if the pace is severely off.

[Lovely Lyanna]

I see what you are saying, but right now the writers are trying to bring that mess of a book to life. Most of the problems of the show can be laid at the feet of that book, which is nothing but a shining example of massive writer's block.

[Lord Eddard]

I see what you are saying, but right now the writers are trying to bring that mess of a book to life. Most of the problems of the show can be laid at the feet of that book, which is nothing but a shining example of massive writer's block.

This.

People are so wrapped up in their "D&D ruined the great source material" bubble. Feast and Dance were mediocre at best.

[TheCasualObserver]

Maybe. But I'm not angry enough to cancel my HBO subscription, so it wouldn't be a particularly meaningful protest. In light of the hate the show has been getting recently I will speak in defense of its strongest episode. No matter what happens from now until the end , you have to give them props for Blackwater. It was a phenomenal hour of television, unlike anything else I'd seen on the small screen, and deep down I knew that it was something they would never top. Their attempt to do so with the Watchers on the wall was an obvious failure.

This.

People are so wrapped up in their "D&D ruined the great source material" bubble. Feast and Dance were mediocre at best.

Ok, but you can't really use the plodding pace of AFFC and ADWD to defend the series when the show runners know what happens in the end. It's an adaption - you would think that it would utilize the best parts of the books and trim the fat. They've cut loads of storylines, yet people still think it's boring. What does that tell you?

[DireWolfSpirit]

I've recently decided I won't watch a season 6 of GOT before reading a completed WOW.

Now whether I avoid the 6th season until after also reading a completed "Spring" book as well,

I havent decided yet.

But definately not a season 6 before the completed WOW.

[Hodor&Bran]

JUST TO WATCH PETER DINKLAGE ACT :bowdown:

[dannyk65]

I don't think I'll ever stop. I'm already enjoying them a lot less, because there doesn't seem to be any sense to some of the changes they make.

With that said, we're still in the middle. It's conceivable that the Sansa/Batfinger storylines end up making sense. If they do, I'll certainly revise my opinion of it. But so far, it appears to be nothing more than an unmitigated disaster.

The faith is laughably bad with the "rawr, gayz errr bad!!!" attitude, which comes out of nowhere, although at it's heart, the storyline is largely the same so far.

Carol is so whitewashed, I'm all for not calling her by her real name. St. Tyrion appears to be the same, although he was at least whiter to begin with.

Just at an overall level, I'm scared of where they appear to be going. They've taken A++ source material and are deciding to get creative, and what started out as an A+ project is quickly turning into a C as they lose sight of the actual goal. There's no real way to tell until it's done, and hopefully I'll end up eating my words, but I'm terrified right now.

Sums up the way I feel about it nicely!

Also, that's the greatest avatar in the history of avatars....

[TinyNeedle]

I actually hope the series will spoil the books a little, at least on rough lines. Then I'll only enjoy the future books more

[Esa1996]

A year or two ago I was certain I wouldn't watch it, but at the moment there's not a a chance I wouldn't watch it. The changes keep it at least somewhat different from the books (Important deaths will be the same, yes), and the show is just so much faster at delivering an ending. Besides, the show will be all over the internet whenever someone important dies, so I'd get spoiled anyway unless I could cut myself off the internet for the next 5+ years, which I know to be impossible.

[Khal Boner]

I see what you are saying, but right now the writers are trying to bring that mess of a book to life. Most of the problems of the show can be laid at the feet of that book, which is nothing but a shining example of massive writer's block.

This. This season is a 6/10 for me so far. The show still looks great, is well written and well acted but he source material just isn't as tight or strong as it was for previous shows.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

I see the main problem is that many believe that book 4 and 5 being a "mess" is a fact. If anything, it's a subjective opinion. And while the book has "messy" parts, those "messy" parts were not solved at all. Saying that "this changes add some interesting plots to a couple of boring books!" would open the scenario for having Rickon fighting dinosaurs in Ulthos or Davos discovering warp speed (although I think LF already did that) in the Citadel. The thing was to make the "messy boring" parts interesting, not cut them completely.

Maybe we need a poll about how people feel about the books after the show. I kinda feel some have grown to appreciate certain plots that they first disliked because at least they make sense and they were there with a future purpose. I'm not saying the books are their favs now but at least we now know what happens when the "boring" parts don't exist. Everything fails apart.

[Khal Boner]

I see the main problem is that many believe that book 4 and 5 being a "mess" is a fact. If anything, it's a subjective opinion. And while the book has "messy" parts, those "messy" parts were not solved at all. Saying that "this changes add some interesting plots to a couple of boring books!" would open the scenario for having Rickon fighting dinosaurs in Ulthos or Davos discovering warp speed (although I think LF already did that) in the Citadel. The thing was to make the "messy boring" parts interesting, not cut them completely.

They were a mess. GRRM totally screwed up his chronology, had to do extensive rewrites, got stuck in Meereen and had to even split POV characters across the two books. Waiting 11 yrs for Jon, Dany and Tyrion damn near destroyed the whole ASOIF experience for me.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

They were a mess. GRRM totally screwed up his chronology, had to do extensive rewrites, got stuck in Meereen and had to even split POV characters across the two books. Waiting 11 yrs for Jon, Dany and Tyrion damn near destroyed the whole ASOIF experience for me.

Two things. First, the pacing has nothing to do with the story. It can affect your perception of it but it has nothing to do with the story itself. And second, while they can be a mess for you, they are not a mess for me and many other people in this same very same board. For those who don't like the books, it's ok. It's also their opinion. But a valid opinion is not saying

1. [X]'s storyline is bad because I don't like [X] or

2. The books are wrong because GRRM doesn't know what is doing.

#1 is, again, an opinion. The people who likes and enjoys X probably disagree (or agree too). And #2 is not valid unless the readers can also read minds and can say what are GRRM's plans. "I didn't like what he did in the books" is not the same as "he did everything wrong in the books", specially when the books are just entering the second act.

[Khal Boner]

Two things. First, the pacing has nothing to do with the story. It can affect your perception of it but it has nothing to do with the story itself. And second, while they can be a mess for you, they are not a mess for me and many other people in this same very same board. For those who don't like the books, it's ok. It's also their opinion. But a valid opinion is not saying

1. [X]'s storyline is bad because I don't like [X] or

2. The books are wrong because GRRM doesn't know what is doing.

#1 is, again, an opinion. The people who likes and enjoys X probably disagree (or agree too). And #2 is not valid unless the readers can also read minds and can say what are GRRM's plans. "I didn't like what he did in the books" is not the same as "he did everything wrong in the books", specially when the books are just entering the second act.

I can't believe anyone actually enjoyed having to wait 11 years for three of the major characters to reappear.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

I can't believe anyone actually enjoyed having to wait 11 years for three of the major characters to reappear.

Has anybody even said that? I read the books very recently (after the show first season, actually) and I think four years is enough for me to find out about Dany, Jon, Tyrion and JonCon. But that's not a reason to dislike the books. I doubt someone said "oh, this book sucks because we won't know what happens in ten years!" after Dance was released. As much, they said "it sucks that WE have to wait". No the same thing.

[AdmiralKyrd]

AFFC and ADWD aren't so much a mess, as much as they're designed to be something that you're not supposed to understand very well until you read The Winds of Winter.

[dannyk65]

AFFC and ADWD aren't so much a mess, as much as they're designed to be something that you're not supposed to understand very well until you read The Winds of Winter.

I agree with you completely, but we will need to wait until the release of the remaining books, which may or may not come before the melting of the polar ice shelves

ETA: and Tottenham's return to Champions League play

[JonisHenryTudor]

Two things. First, the pacing has nothing to do with the story. It can affect your perception of it but it has nothing to do with the story itself. And second, while they can be a mess for you, they are not a mess for me and many other people in this same very same board. For those who don't like the books, it's ok. It's also their opinion. But a valid opinion is not saying

1. [X]'s storyline is bad because I don't like [X] or

2. The books are wrong because GRRM doesn't know what is doing.

#1 is, again, an opinion. The people who likes and enjoys X probably disagree (or agree too). And #2 is not valid unless the readers can also read minds and can say what are GRRM's plans. "I didn't like what he did in the books" is not the same as "he did everything wrong in the books", specially when the books are just entering the second act.

Yeah that is for academic criticism. Martin did nothing wrong per se because it is his story. If he wants to make Dany grow a tail he can, and it is neither right nor wrong. Now you can say I think that is a terrible thing to make happen, which is a valid assessment.

I can't believe anyone actually enjoyed having to wait 11 years for three of the major characters to reappear.

It was terrible. I am patient and I wouldn't care about the wait, but now that the show is overtaking the books I care more than before.

AFFC and ADWD aren't so much a mess, as much as they're designed to be something that you're not supposed to understand very well until you read The Winds of Winter.

I don't like aFfC as much, but it is still better than most stuff that is in the genre. I just think it is boring compared to the rest of the series. But compared to everything else, it is still pretty great. I really liked Dance. I also see these books as the calm before the storm, and you can sort of see a realignment beginning to occur.

[Hiram McDrogon]

AFFC and ADWD aren't so much a mess, as much as they're designed to be something that you're not supposed to understand very well until you read The Winds of Winter.

This is how I feel about them. I didn't enjoy reading them as much as I enjoyed the first three, but I'm reserving judgement until I can see how they fit with the larger story. (If I ever re-read them, I'll only do it when WOW's publication date is already announced). But I only started the books after Season 1 of the show - man, if I'd been a reader of the first three books as published, and the show had never come along, I'd long since have given up on the books.

On continuing to watch the show: I assume I will, but if the rest of the season continues at the same quality as "Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken", I certainly won't be as enthusiastic about Season 6. It's not a book purist thing at all. If I enjoy Winds of Winter as little as I enjoyed AFFC and ADWD I won't be enthusiastic about Books 7 and 8 either, and given the probable huge gap and likelihood I'll have forgotten everything, I may never read the end of the series.

An interesting point raised on Bald Move's Game of Thrones podcast (and presumably also raised elsewhere): this season is bleak. Bleak, bleak, bleak. Sure, it's largely mirroring the bleak fate of the books' main characters, but in the books we've also got cool vengeance stuff from minor characters like Manderley and the Brotherhood without Banners. I'm just not getting the sense that anything good is going to happen anytime soon. I have a horrible feeling D&D still think we need more proof of Ramsey's villainy, and I'm not looking forward to that - and "not looking forward" to something isn't really what you want for a TV show.

The show's relative lack of prophecies may also be turning into a problem. In the books, they point the story a bit more forwards, as well as adding a lot of mystery, whereas the show hasn't done much with the "We want answers!" feeling the books inspire. Until this season, I didn't consider that much of a problem, but at this point I just feel like I need more to keep me interested, rather than recoiling in horror.