[Spoiler-Book] Jon, letters, Winterfell

[JonisHenryTudor]

Not sure if this has been stated elsewhere or brought up. But...

I was thinking. I wonder if HBO is going to use the final scene as a way to draw Jon south. If the show makes room for a Pink Letter, it seems that the show runners will have someone send a letter to Jon informing him that Ramsay violated Sansa.

Now whereas in DwD the author is "unknown", I wonder if Sansa composes a quick note in her own hand and sends it. I suspect that ravens will be off limits to Sansa? Maybe not. This is where Brienne comes in, perhaps Sansa gets a letter to her and Brienne takes it to Jon at CB? Of course this is pure speculation, but I think that scene will have something to do with Jon preparing for Winterfell.

It would pose an interesting dilemma for Brienne if this were the case, because she would have to pass Stannis' army on the way.

Or..... Since we know that Ramsay is a sadist, he might send the letter. I would imagine if this were the case, Ramsay would be quite vulgar and taunt Jon.

Ideas?

[kissdbyfire]

Didn't Theon kill all the ravens? I can't remember for sure, but I think he did. Not an insurmountable problem, I suppose... Is there enough time for a Pink Letter plot to be introduced & developed, though? It feels like there's very little time left for them to check all the plot boxes they still have to check.

[Philpenn]

^^ Boltons brought new ravens to Winterfell. A scene showed them carrying the cages.

[Ser Walter of AShwood]

^^ Boltons brought new ravens to Winterfell. A scene showed them carrying the cages.

But are these ravens able to fly to the wall, or only to the dreadfort.

I do not know how clever ravens are, but if they are used for relaying messages, I think that the way the messages are sent is similar to carrier pigeons. these are raised at a single location and then transported to remote sites. Pigeons are also only able to fly 'home'.

Would a raven understand or know how to fly to castle black if it has never been there?

[Sultan of Westeros]

But are these ravens able to fly to the wall, or only to the dreadfort.

I do not know how clever ravens are, but if they are used for relaying messages, I think that the way the messages are sent is similar to carrier pigeons. these are raised at a single location and then transported to remote sites. Pigeons are also only able to fly 'home'.

Would a raven understand or know how to fly to castle black if it has never been there?

If LF can transport throughout Westeros and brienne can go around moat cailin i am sure ravens can find their way to castle black.

[Philpenn]

True, not sure if all Northern ravens have Castle Black in their memory. Is Stark the only house that kept contact with the Night's Watch? You'd think more than one Northern house has a 2nd or 3rd born brother who's joined. That said, how about the birds who delivered the need men letters? Do they drop off the letter and fly right home, or do they live at whatever castle they flew to until they're sent back with another letter?

[White Harbors Wrath]

There's no way there's a pink letter. As heavy handed as they are with the foreshadowing of Olly eyeballing Jon every time Jon says wildling...Jon gets it over the wildlings if anything. Unless they're doing all this Olly drama just to establish him questioning Jons judgement...with these writers you never know.

[The Hand of Jaime]

We were debating this at work too. It seems as though Jon will make it back from Hardhome successfully so I imagine it would be a stretch for him to decide to abandon the Watch after taking such a gamble on the Wildlings. When the daggers in the dark come, I'd imagine it'll be because of his actions with the Wildlings and not anything to do with rallying men to go to WF to attack the men Stannis are already on their way to destroy. Purely speculation but that seems like the way it'll go from my eyes.

[Sultan of Westeros]

True, not sure if all Northern ravens have Castle Black in their memory. Is Stark the only house that kept contact with the Night's Watch? You'd think more than one Northern house has a 2nd or 3rd born brother who's joined. That said, how about the birds who delivered the need men letters? Do they drop off the letter and fly right home, or do they live at whatever castle they flew to until they're sent back with another letter?

If ravens can fly two way i.e from point A to point B and then back from point B to point A then Jon has already send a letter to boltons from castle black asking for men and resources this season.

[jbent87]

Not sure if this has been stated elsewhere or brought up. But...

I was thinking. I wonder if HBO is going to use the final scene as a way to draw Jon south. If the show makes room for a Pink Letter, it seems that the show runners will have someone send a letter to Jon informing him that Ramsay violated Sansa.

Now whereas in DwD the author is "unknown", I wonder if Sansa composes a quick note in her own hand and sends it. I suspect that ravens will be off limits to Sansa? Maybe not. This is where Brienne comes in, perhaps Sansa gets a letter to her and Brienne takes it to Jon at CB? Of course this is pure speculation, but I think that scene will have something to do with Jon preparing for Winterfell.

It would pose an interesting dilemma for Brienne if this were the case, because she would have to pass Stannis' army on the way.

Or..... Since we know that Ramsay is a sadist, he might send the letter. I would imagine if this were the case, Ramsay would be quite vulgar and taunt Jon.

Ideas?

This angle is suddenly so much more interesting bc it would be true... no fake Arya, we're talking a letter bragging about how Ramsay raped reality Sansa. That's gonna get the attention of any man.

We were debating this at work too. It seems as though Jon will make it back from Hardhome successfully so I imagine it would be a stretch for him to decide to abandon the Watch after taking such a gamble on the Wildlings. When the daggers in the dark come, I'd imagine it'll be because of his actions with the Wildlings and not anything to do with rallying men to go to WF to attack the men Stannis are already on their way to destroy. Purely speculation but that seems like the way it'll go from my eyes.

...that said, this seems like how it's gonna go. Good post. Ho, hum.

[jugdesh258]

But are these ravens able to fly to the wall, or only to the dreadfort.

I do not know how clever ravens are, but if they are used for relaying messages, I think that the way the messages are sent is similar to carrier pigeons. these are raised at a single location and then transported to remote sites. Pigeons are also only able to fly 'home'.

Would a raven understand or know how to fly to castle black if it has never been there?

The producers hardly care to be mindfull of any required or common sense procedure. Problably can see instances in the series that they lifted script fom book that adheres to common sense and many other times it doe not

[jugdesh258]

I think there will be a Pink letter. Both Davos and Mel have scene trying to convince Jon to choose sides. Davos appeals to reason and Mel appeals based on faith.

I liked the idea that Mel would also see Jon's dark haired sister in trouble. oh well. missed opportunity. But maybe Ramsy will taunt jon by saying he will torture his sister.

The letter is the catalyst to allow Jon to take that next step to take sides. It is also justification by mutineers to get rid of Jon. They are not happy about alliance with wildlings but this does not violate any old law of the brotherhood

[The Hand of Jaime]

This angle is suddenly so much more interesting bc it would be true... no fake Arya, we're talking a letter bragging about how Ramsay raped reality Sansa. That's gonna get the attention of any man.

...that said, this seems like how it's gonna go. Good post. Ho, hum.

Part of me is sad that this will likely be the way it goes. I remember being close to tears of joy when I read the following excerpt in the books for the 1st time. Given how rare good fist-pump moments are in the series, I think it would be a real shame to rob that same feeling of euphoria (though short lived) from the show watchers.

"The Night's Watch will make for Hardhome. I ride to Winterfell alone, unless …" Jon paused. "… is there any man here who will come stand with me?"

The roar was all he could have hoped for...

[scotman74]

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere (yeah, I know...) that ravens can only fly to one place: their "home". Then the ravens are carted back to various different castles, but they will only fly home. Occasionally, a very smart raven can be taught to fly between two places back and forth, and in extremely rare cases, can be taught 3 or 4 locations, which they fly to by command.

Wish I had a link, just going from memory here.

[Mandzipop]

A raven has been sent to Winterfell from Castle Black. It has to go home so I'm sure it can carry a response.

I don't think ravens can teleport as this one is taking a while and nobody has mentioned it yet.

[scotman74]

Ah ok it was on the wiki on this very site. "Raven" entry:

"Most ravens are trained to fly to a specific castle, but some few can be taught to fly between two castles and are therefore greatly prized. Once in a very great while, a raven can learn the names of three or four or even five castles, and fly to each upon command. Birds as clever as that come along only once in a hundred years.^"

Not sure how canon that is.

[rocksniffer]

But are these ravens able to fly to the wall, or only to the dreadfort.

I do not know how clever ravens are, but if they are used for relaying messages, I think that the way the messages are sent is similar to carrier pigeons. these are raised at a single location and then transported to remote sites. Pigeons are also only able to fly 'home'.

Would a raven understand or know how to fly to castle black if it has never been there?

perhaps they use the same method as the owls in harry potter...

[Saltire Knight]

I'm beginning to think there will be no letter and we will witness the attack on Winterfall resulting in the death of Stannis.

[White Harbors Wrath]

Ah ok it was on the wiki on this very site. "Raven" entry:

"Most ravens are trained to fly to a specific castle, but some few can be taught to fly between two castles and are therefore greatly prized. Once in a very great while, a raven can learn the names of three or four or even five castles, and fly to each upon command. Birds as clever as that come along only once in a hundred years.^"

Not sure how canon that is.

It's from the Theon chapter from Winds of Winter

[Tagganaro]

I mean, I wouldn't put it past the Show to cut out the Pink Letter-- They've neutered the most interesting aspects of the Northern storyline again and again throughout the show. But at the same time...how can you cut it out? It's such a great moment, and if Jon is making it back from Hardhome succesfully and bringing the wildlings back through the Wall then it's not gonna be the wildlings alone that cause the Ides. They still need that impetus provided by the Pink Letter.