gash is back Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 I just can't put myself in the headspace of someone who wants so badly on one hand to defend one of the most lecherous, misogynist, but TALENTED authors of all-time who repeatedly subjects his barely teenage characters to brutality and rape, but on the other hand decries the "decision-making" of a pair of people tasked to bring that vision to the screen. yup. they don't like their precious source material being changed in any way and would even stoop to accusing the show writers of creating a story arc solely for the purpose of having a girl raped to discredit them. it's sad beyond belief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valetudo Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 *whispers: Why are we in yet another discussion where we try to explain ourselves over and over again and all we get is new silly arguments. *shouts at mods: I promise I will never talk about the rape scene again if you give us the "rant and rave" thread back! :frown5: Yeah,, time to move on once again! I'm surprised this thread is not locked by now, and even more surprised that it was approved in the fist place. It's the typical flaming war thread that can only go wrong. God, I miss the rant and rave thread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaircat Meow Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 OMG, we have a poster here called gash is back. Is this the real gash of DanyChrist fame? Pretty awesome if it is. We all liked gash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gargarax Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 If you question Sansa marrying Ramsay Bolton, then you must also question Ramsay's marriage to fArya. "But Sansa marrying Ramsay doesn't do anything! It's pointless! The Northern lords won't rally!" And the Boltons thought the same thing about fArya. If you're going to criticize the show, then criticize GRRM too. What ... just, what? Of course it makes sense for Ramsay to marry Sansa, but not the other way around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Damian Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 The showrunners have admitted that they wanted to have Sophie/Sansa take Jeyne Poole's primary role back in season 2. When she was then 14/15 years old when filming. I think part of it is that they identified the actress as future breakout star if not for her looks alone and thought about the sex/shock side of it. If you look at the end of last season, season 4, her character's walk down the stairs in the Vale and her last interactions with Littlefinger of the season, we thought, ok, they are going to follow the Vale plot which is really interesting for her character's growth. Read the books people, they are quite good. I do think that there was some discussion of not sending her to Winterfell but by the time last season ended, Sophie was starting to really get noticed on the World stage. She is a statuesque beauty who turns heads and I think for the value of shock and awe, that was the final deciding factor to send her to Winterfell and yes, they knew they would have her raped. Her character path severed from obviously where it left off in the Vale. Look at her clip when she is comming down those stairs in the Vale. She is smiling and happy. Liberated from her life of torment and seemingly in control of herself. Now, you look at her from episode one this year and you will notice a very depressed look on her face as if the actress was telegraphing a different image from what should have been a day or two before when she came down the stairs. I think this all was done because of Sophie and the attention it would get them but they really miscalculated on just what the nature of that attention was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chambraigne Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 What ... just, what? Of course it makes sense for Ramsay to marry Sansa, but not the other way around. I'm sorry, but "because I said so" doesn't work in this situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gash is back Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 OMG, we have a poster here called gash is back. Is this the real gash of DanyChrist fame? Pretty awesome if it is. We all liked gash. shhhh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valetudo Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 Sadly, I think your argument is exactly what showrunners were going for. That's the 'official line', this horrible thing happened, and she'll become stronger because of it. I find it baffling that so many people use this exact same argument, and fail to see the point. It's the official TM point of view sold by D&D, and justified by a single line from LF in the show, so of course it must be true! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Suburbs Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 My complaint is that the rape was out of character for Ramsey. While he may be crazy, he's not an idiot. His position as Lord of Winterfell relies solely on fathering a healthy son on Sansa, and the more he smashes up her lady parts the less likely that will come to pass. So having Ramsey be gentle with Sansa on their wedding night would have created much more dramatic tension, and indeed would have been more cringe inducing, than the shock value of a rape, because you know he is just bsing and that at some point he is going to snap if she displeases him. Also, Ramsey knows the political game they are playing, so he should be smart enough to realize that Sansa is no kennel-master's daughter but the only known living child of Eddard Stark, so brutalizing her in bed is not going to win him any loyalty in the north. So not only was the rape unnecessary, but contrary to established character as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CornCornSnow Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 The showrunners have admitted that they wanted to have Sophie/Sansa take Jeyne Poole's primary role back in season 2. When she was then 14/15 years old when filming. I think part of it is that they identified the actress as future breakout star if not for her looks alone and thought about the sex/shock side of it. If you look at the end of last season, season 4, her character's walk down the stairs in the Vale and her last interactions with Littlefinger of the season, we thought, ok, they are going to follow the Vale plot which is really interesting for her character's growth. Read the books people, they are quite good. I do think that there was some discussion of not sending her to Winterfell but by the time last season ended, Sophie was starting to really get noticed on the World stage. She is a statuesque beauty who turns heads and I think for the value of shock and awe, that was the final deciding factor to send her to Winterfell and yes, they knew they would have her raped. Her character path severed from obviously where it left off in the Vale. Look at her clip when she is comming down those stairs in the Vale. She is smiling and happy. Liberated from her life of torment and seemingly in control of herself. Now, you look at her from season one this year and you will notice a very depressed look on her face as if the actress was telegraphing a different image from what should have been a day or two before when she came down the stairs. I think this all was done because of Sophie and the attention it would get them but they really miscalculated on just what the nature of that attention was. This makes me sick to my stomach (planning the Sansa/Jeyne Poole convergance since Season 2). Is it really true, or just a rumor spun out of control? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gash is back Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 okay, once more then; the reason sansa is in winterfell; 1. it's her home. she longs for it.2. she wants revenge on the boltons.3. having her stay in the vale is bad tv4. there is no fake stark for the boltons to marry, and a stark (perceived or otherwise) is needed there (GRRM plot device, not the shows) so having established all that, the fact that she is there makes sense, and the fact she gets raped by ramsey on her wedding night also makes sense, cause that's the kind of brute he is, in the books and in the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facebookless Man Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 If the guy who intro-ed me to asoiaf was still alive, the trolling a man of his intellect would do here would be a thing a beauty.Aw, so candid it's almost cute.Such a shame we have to make do with the bottom of the barrel, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Damian Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 This makes me sick to my stomach (planning the Sansa/Jeyne Poole convergance since Season 2). Is it really true, or just a rumor spun out of control? not a rumor, it was planned and they have admitted to it. look up the interviews for when it was revealed to Sansa near moat cailin. They're excuse was because of "the strength of the actess" but we know why, sex appeal, period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Chang Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 My complaint is that the rape was out of character for Ramsey. While he may be crazy, he's not an idiot. His position as Lord of Winterfell relies solely on fathering a healthy son on Sansa, and the more he smashes up her lady parts the less likely that will come to pass. So having Ramsey be gentle with Sansa on their wedding night would have created much more dramatic tension, and indeed would have been more cringe inducing, than the shock value of a rape, because you know he is just bsing and that at some point he is going to snap if she displeases him. Also, Ramsey knows the political game they are playing, so he should be smart enough to realize that Sansa is no kennel-master's daughter but the only known living child of Eddard Stark, so brutalizing her in bed is not going to win him any loyalty in the north. So not only was the rape unnecessary, but contrary to established character as well. Except in the context of Westeros it was not rape. And I don't think Ramsay's that smart in any case. I rather suspect that in his eyes he simply exercised the right of any husband (and as I have pointed out before until 1991 that was the right I for one would have been able to 'enjoy' should I have wanted to, because it was only criminalised then). I can even remember people arguing against criminalisng it, and some held pretty strong religious beliefs. I recall my wife arguing with her own father about it. Big can of worms all round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CornCornSnow Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 not a rumor, it was planned and they have admitted to it. look up the interviews for when it was revealed to Sansa near moat cailin. They're excuse was because of "the strength of the actess" but we know why, sex appeal, period. Who looks at a 14 yr old girl and thinks-- her. I want to write a special rape scene just for her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chambraigne Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 not a rumor, it was planned and they have admitted to it. look up the interviews for when it was revealed to Sansa near moat cailin. They're excuse was because of "the strength of the actess" but we know why, sex appeal, period. No. They could have found any attractive woman to cast as fArya and still had their sex appeal. This is a terrible argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facebookless Man Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 wasn't "they had no fArya in the show" the argument you just used? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gash is back Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 not a rumor, it was planned and they have admitted to it. look up the interviews for when it was revealed to Sansa near moat cailin. They're excuse was because of "the strength of the actess" but we know why, sex appeal, period. are you actually accusing the writers of planning a rape scene with an actress because she has sex appeal (even though the scene was not even shown)? please tell me that's not what you're saying for the love of god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chambraigne Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 wasn't "they had no fArya in the show" the argument you just used? I have never commented on fArya. My point is this. If all D&D wanted was to see Sansa naked, they could have done it in a million ways. They could have cast a fArya just for that episode and still got what they wanted. Suggesting that they just wanted to get Sansa out of her clothes and that drove the storytelling changes is a tenuous link at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valetudo Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 okay, once more then; the reason sansa is in winterfell; 1. it's her home. she longs for it.2. she wants revenge on the boltons.3. having her stay in the vale is bad tv4. there is no fake stark for the boltons to marry, and a stark (perceived or otherwise) is needed there (GRRM plot device, not the shows) so having established all that, the fact that she is there makes sense, and the fact she gets raped by ramsey on her wedding night also makes sense, cause that's the kind of brute he is, in the books and in the show.Destruction time again! 1)It's her home! So Cersei should go to Casterly Rock then. 2)I've already said that earlier. How is marrying Ramsey giving her revenge? She may be closer to kill the Boltons, but after killing them, what happens? 3)Is that really an argument? Having her in Winterfell is also bad TV! lol, what can I say to that? 4)The point of having a Stark in WF was that it permitted the Boltons to gain some legitimacy in regard of the other Northern Lords. That's why it was so important for them to see a Stark getting married, and having Theon bringing her to the marriage, since he was the only one capable of recognizing her.If they're are no fucking Northern lords, having Sansa marrying Ramsey brings nothing to the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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