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Inigima

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I cannot imagine where an MSc in history of medicine would lead you except for public health, public policy, environmental (either public enforcement or possibly consulting) or social welfare. Do you want to study MRSA because you find it personally interesting or because you want new career opportunities? Because a broad area of knowledge or skill set is better suited to the latter, not a specific topic of personal interest.

Both, I suppose. There's a possibility of following it up with a PhD in digital humanities, which has pretty broad applications for managing data storage. My French degree led me to work on math journals; sometimes it's not so much the subject as whatever skills you pick up along the way, which is what I'm leaning on right now.

Same here, although, like IP, I do get invites from people who are in similar industries. I usually accept them if they look legit.

The Merc sales guy is local, the Japanese banker... can't remember. The US or Japan, I think.

They've recommended a candidate. They aren't allowed to say anything else, including whether it's me.

Good luck!

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Both, I suppose. There's a possibility of following it up with a PhD in digital humanities, which has pretty broad applications for managing data storage. My French degree led me to work on math journals; sometimes it's not so much the subject as whatever skills you pick up along the way, which is what I'm leaning on right now.

The Merc sales guy is local, the Japanese banker... can't remember. The US or Japan, I think.

Good luck!

This is so true. I cant even count the number of software engineers i have hired coming out of physics, medical, transportation and other sciences. They needed to pick up the SW skills to build their tools for research and found that they liked the dev side more than their concentrations.

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While we wait for Ini's hopefully good news (fingers crossed! :cheers:), are there any career changers out there?



Scenario is this: I served 5 years after college in the Navy. I knew it wasn't for me and got out ASAP. Spent a few months looking for a job, which I made difficult for myself by refusing to consider other geographical areas. I didn't feel "ready" to start working again (everyone kept telling me that moment would come when I would get horribly bored, but...nope), but it was a good offer and seemed like something I might enjoy (project management). Um, nope. I hated it almost immediately. Forced myself to stay and hopefully things would get better--the nebulous advice of the internet seemed to say it generally takes about 6 months to get comfortable in a new job. Things have not gotten better. So, now I am taking night classes to get a certificate in accounting in hopes of finding a job that doesn't make me desperately hope to get in a debilitating car crash on my way to work.



But it will take another year to finish this program. Then I will have to try to find a job in an entirely new field, fast approaching 30 and used to an upper-5-figure salary. Most of the entry level jobs I've seen around here in the field are about 40% or less of my current salary. I'm not the most profligate spender, but that is still going to be quite a squeeze. And it makes me feel like I'm going totally backwards in life, and all for an opportunity that may or may not be any better than my current situation. Plus I have to stay in this job I hate for another year anyway, and at that point maybe I'll be so desensitized I can manage until I'm 60. Has anyone else made a big jump down like this? Any experiences with establishing yourself in a second career? (Or third, in my case.) Am I an idiot to basically squander the experience built up over the last 6 years (10 if you include my undergrad in astrophysics)?


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Greywolf - your answer should be "Yes, I have 100+ dotted-line reports".

I have 11 direct reports and 8 dotted-line reports. The latter require oversight/supervision, team management, resource planning & balancing, coaching, feedback, training, motivation and significant input on hiring/firing/promotion/compensation, but their official direct supervisors are in another business unit.

If your management role day-to-day is significant, then it does not matter (outside of the most hierarchical bureaucracies) who is officially signing the year-end review.

How long have you been in this role? Assuming you have had this level of responsibility for a reasonable amount of time you should make sure you are clear with your manager that you have a goal of moving into a supervisor position and ask them what your path is to get there. Their answer will tell you whether it is realistic to expect it will happen.

Here is some advice on the interview issue. Warning, the HR weasel words are bolded. Make sure you practice them so it comes out naturally.

Regarding the issues you run into during interviews I would sell yourself as a manager when speaking with external companies. If you are doing the job who cares if you have responsibility for the performance reviews? If they specifically ask you about doing reviews then explain to them your company has a centralized management hierarchy that relies on matrix oversight. Explain to them that you have matrix responsibility for whatever teams your oversee.

If it is internal then you need to be clear with them that you have matrix responsibility for certain teams and get some internal references over to the hiring managers ahead of time that will endorse your management skills ahead of an internal interview. Most of the internal openings i deal with are handled this way. Hiring Managers dont want to take risks so if they can hire someone that has endorsements from people they trust it is an easy decision because then they can just blame whoever referred the person if something goes wrong.

Oh...those are good. Thank you!

What I've run into - for whatever reason - is that for the roles I have interviewed for there seems to be a heavy weight on the actual HR side of it; that may be because I don't have the direct relationship today. I think the info you guys gave above will be very helpful!

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Fuuuuuuuuuck. Fuck my life and fuck giant biotech companies for constantly reorganizing. My phone interview with Super Head Sales Guy that was supposed to happen on Tuesday was postponed and transferred to a Lady Sales Director for vague reasons. Today they guy I've been working closely with and who would be my manager told me that there was a reorg and he and all the other people I've spoken with now are not the decision makers. He actually told me "if they had done this a week later you would have had an offer from me" and he spoke highly about me to the New Boss Lady, but I can't help but feel like all I've done up to this point has been for nothing and I have to start from square one.

Sigh.

Have phone call with New Boss Lady tomorrow at 10 am. I'm tired.

Good luck, Ini.

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That's a pity AG. Is New Boss Lady on good terms with the original guy? Would his positive impression carry much weight? Best of luck

Angalin - it's possible that if you have an attractive photo you might get some random male invitations just for that reason, even on Linked In.

Nora - I thought you had a postgrad or even PhD in physics too? It seems like accounting is under-using your hard skills. Can you do quant programming in Python or R? Those skills are in demand.

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That's a pity AG. Is New Boss Lady on good terms with the original guy? Would his positive impression carry much weight? Best of luck.

Original Guy "does not know New Boss Lady well" and I have no idea how much his weight actually carries within this new regime. I feel like I'm fucked and she's going to want to put her own person in this position.

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Original Guy "does not know New Boss Lady well" and I have no idea how much his weight actually carries within this new regime. I feel like I'm fucked and she's going to want to put her own person in this position.

Something similar happened to me a few years ago. I was being courted by GMs A and B and in the blink of an eye GM A was replaced by C and they went radio silent for months. In the end they reached out to me again and I was hired in at a lower title/wage than I had been in earlier talks for. However, my education also played a role (or lack of it). My extensive industry experience and references didn't seem to trump a piece of paper that had nothing to do with anything.

Good luck!

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I cannot imagine where an MSc in history of medicine would lead you except for public health, public policy, environmental (either public enforcement or possibly consulting) or social welfare. Do you want to study MRSA because you find it personally interesting or because you want new career opportunities? Because a broad area of knowledge or skill set is better suited to the latter, not a specific topic of personal interest.

Coming back to this: my current job is a niche which I could climb out of into generic university admin and be extremely, extremely bored until retirement. Or I can do this MSc now, which will mean student debt; or wait another six years to be accepted into a different program thanks to Canadian university pre-requisite requirements. In theory, an MSc would open up more new career opportunities than staying where I am.

While we wait for Ini's hopefully good news (fingers crossed! :cheers:), are there any career changers out there?

That'd be me, with a good ten years and two kids up on you. :) Have you tried talking to a career counsellor to see what jobs might suit your talents best and leverage your skills and qualifications? Headhunters tend to want to see you employed, but a good career counsellor might be able to suggest that you look at one field rather than another. If you loathe your current job as much as it sounds, staying in it until you're 60 doesn't sound fulfilling or healthy. Surely astrophysicists are in demand outside the Navy?

Fuuuuuuuuuck. Fuck my life and fuck giant biotech companies for constantly reorganizing. My phone interview with Super Head Sales Guy that was supposed to happen on Tuesday was postponed and transferred to a Lady Sales Director for vague reasons. Today they guy I've been working closely with and who would be my manager told me that there was a reorg and he and all the other people I've spoken with now are not the decision makers. He actually told me "if they had done this a week later you would have had an offer from me" and he spoke highly about me to the New Boss Lady, but I can't help but feel like all I've done up to this point has been for nothing and I have to start from square one.

Sigh.

Have phone call with New Boss Lady tomorrow at 10 am. I'm tired.

Good luck, Ini.

Good luck to you too, AG!

Angalin - it's possible that if you have an attractive photo you might get some random male invitations just for that reason, even on Linked In.

It's a photo of me speaking to a crowd, taken from a distance. Maybe they really like poetry and urban planning. :dunno:

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How long do you all reckon is a reasonable waiting period for knowing if an employer is passing on me? I've had two interviews for a position...I felt like the first interview went quite well, but when the second ended I was far less confident. That was nine days ago and I've not gotten any contact since then. Two days ago, I sent a polite email asking after the progress in decision-making and that I was available for any follow-up information/questions... I am not sure I worded it well... :(



A close friend of mine works there and put in a good word for me - am I overthinking this? Just about a week and a half of waiting, it's killing me.


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Angalin, good point about the career counselor. That at least may help me feel better about picking a direction to go in. Everything feels like such a crapshoot--but a crapshoot that is going to take years to turn out and could severely impact the rest of my life!





Nora - I thought you had a postgrad or even PhD in physics too? It seems like accounting is under-using your hard skills. Can you do quant programming in Python or R? Those skills are in demand.





Just the undergrad. I did do a year of training in the Navy for nuclear theory/engineering/practice. I've also passed the first actuarial exam, which has nothing to do with what I do now, project management consulting, currently working on a commercial satcom program. Basically I'm all over the place! I cannot do programming, I started learning Python on my own but found it pretty boring so didn't pursue it. I'd like to do something that requires more hard skills, but I don't have a very coherent set of hard skills that are easily applied to something (without more training/education).


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How long do you all reckon is a reasonable waiting period for knowing if an employer is passing on me? I've had two interviews for a position...I felt like the first interview went quite well, but when the second ended I was far less confident. That was nine days ago and I've not gotten any contact since then. Two days ago, I sent a polite email asking after the progress in decision-making and that I was available for any follow-up information/questions... I am not sure I worded it well... :(

A close friend of mine works there and put in a good word for me - am I overthinking this? Just about a week and a half of waiting, it's killing me.

I know this agony from sales pitches. Decisions are rarely ever made as fast as you would like.

Although it's tough on the candidate waiting for news, I'm not shocked by that length of delay. Recruiting and interviewing happens alongside regular work, and you usually don't have go-ahead to hire until you are already overworked, so even more distractions. It can depend on how many interviewers there are in the process and how close they are (closer means they share feedback and reach agreement faster). And they may have other candidates to meet and consider. Even if they love you, it can sometimes take weeks to get approval to make the job offer. And sometimes HR will demand that they interview other candidates too, e.g. internal candidates or under-represented classes (especially gender and race).

It's completely appropriate for you to ask HR or the lead interview coordinator what are the next steps and time frame from here. If you have time constraints, e.g. a competing offer, then let them know. Just make sure to sound polite, collaborative and professional, not desperate, needy or entitled.

You could also ask your friend for informal, confidential feedback.

If your candidacy lost momentum in the second interview, they may be looking around for better candidates. In which case, you won't hear anything further until they've decided they don't have a better option. If you have other opportunities, you can continue to pursue those in the meantime too.

Best of luck.

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Is it weird that I get dressed up for phone interviews? There's just something about my black Theory pencil skirt, Prada slingbacks and appropriate top that really gets me in the mood.

Conversation with New Boss Lady was fine. I like her energy and frankly I'm a little happy to finally speak with a woman during this process - a woman in a power position as opposed to the HR lady. All told, once this process is complete I will have spoken with nine men and I found that to be a little troubling.

Next step is to speak with two more dudes on Monday, my east coast counterparts currently in the role who frankly I'm surprised I haven't had conversations with yet. While it's frustrating that I had this thing wrapped up and an offer on the way, I totally get the need for additional meetings. She's building a new team and doesn't want to inherit someone who doesn't fit and I get that. I'm just bored and impatient and tired and I'm worried she has her own person she wants to place in the role.

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AG, I think they've actually done studies to show that what you're wearing can affect your confidence/mood/tone, even if the other party can't see it. I know when I did an employment workshop that point was really stressed, to make an effort even for phone interviews. So no, not weird at all! Good luck with the new lady--frustrating position to be in but it sounds like things are still looking positive.


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While we wait for Ini's hopefully good news (fingers crossed! :cheers:), are there any career changers out there?

I've had a little experience with career changes. At one point in time, I worked for a highly successful University. They'd hired me, in large part, because of my 15+ years of previous experience in telecommunications. The salary was nice there, and the job was something that I was actually quite good at. I served as coach and mentor for future managers, directors, and department heads alike. I helped create and develop educational programs that made the staff of University more effective and better able to serve their students. Just before my 5 year anniversary, the University's stock took a little dive and it was quickly determined that a substantial savings could be made by laying off higher salary employees and replacing them with entry level positions. This meant the end for myself (and about 200 of my colleagues).

You may all remember that period in my life. I was unemployed for several months and very nearly became homeless. It was largely due to help from members of this very board that I was able to avoid that. A debt that I've not forgotten. Still, I lost much, built up debts that I am still working to repay all these years later, and battled severe bouts of depression. Had it not been for my dog, and the responsibility that I felt I owed to her, I very well may have gone to a dark place that I'd rather not even talk about.

A few months later, humbled and desperate, I accepted a position with a little known online company that made custom stationery. I was with that company for just over 4 years. It was 1/3 of the pay that I'd made with the University, but the experience was uplifting and rewarding in a spiritual sort of way. I was helping people. Granted, helping someone get their Christmas cards out on time or handle the etiquette questions surrounding the stationery for their wedding is nowhere near as life altering as helping them achieve their education goals... but it was still rewarding and the payoff was much more immediate for them, which meant that I got the satisfaction of seeing their satisfaction right away. I did well there, moved up the chain a little, and was offered a management position (with just over quadruple the pay) in exchange for moving to the east coast (North Carolina) and helping them establish a customer service center there. I sold my classic Cadillac, packed my bags, and headed out east. Things started getting shifty almost as soon as I got there. The execs that ran the east coast operations had their own ways of doing things, and their own plans for who they wanted to have in charge. I just didn't fit the demographic they were looking for. They promised that they would still make good on their promises, they just had to get people in place that could better relate to the immediate workforce. Over the course of the next 19 months, they repeated that promise 4 more times while filling the supervisory positions that were being created from the growth my customer service department was generating.

After the 4th time of being lied to, I just could not take it any longer. I loved the job and loved what I'd done there, but I could not take the politics and the lies any longer. I severed ties with them and headed back to my hometown. My parents are aging, my mother was living alone, having health problems, and was in a bad housing situation. I knew that there was absolutely nothing even remotely close to my field in this area, but... I figured that I'd figure something out. Even a minimum wage job would suffice to put me in position to start helping out my folks. Besides, the oil boom was raging strong there and that meant that everyone was desperate for employees (because almost all of the available labor was being overpaid to work the oil fields).

So, I headed back west. Turns out that while everyone was quick to take an application or resume, almost no-one was willing to call back. "Overqualified" was the response I kept getting. ...and here I thought that they wanted to hire someone. One of the places I dropped an app did call back, but the hoops and hurdles that they had put in the path to getting hired defied all sense and logic. Still, I had nothing else at the moment and my savings were dwindling, so... I started jumping through their hoops on the side while I continued looking. Five (5) months later I had completed every last one of their hoops and was hired. Now, for the last year, I have been serving as a County Detention Officer. It is a field that I would have NEVER, not in a million years, ever thought I'd enter, but... here I am, and I'm finding that it really isn't that bad. The pay is low, the risks are moderate, and the stress can get quite high at times... not to mention that it is a position that gets considerably less respect than the late Mr. Rodney Dangerfield did. I still have not gotten my mother out of the bad housing situation, but at least I am here to help her out and I am working on getting the both of us into a better place now.

Long story short. Don't fear change. Don't be afraid to lower your salary if it raises your quality of life. If it doesn't feel right for you where you are, then go somewhere else. Life is too short to be miserable for even one day more than you have to.

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Long story short. Don't fear change. Don't be afraid to lower your salary if it raises your quality of life. If it doesn't feel right for you where you are, then go somewhere else. Life is too short to be miserable for even one day more than you have to.

Blauer, I remember what a tough time you had. I'm happy for you that things have improved so much. Best wishes to you for better times still. :cheers:

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Is it weird that I get dressed up for phone interviews? There's just something about my black Theory pencil skirt, Prada slingbacks and appropriate top that really gets me in the mood.

Not at all. It's just as Nora responded. I find that even when clients would accept me dressing more casually, I still like to wear a well tailored suit. At most I'll drop the tie for a pocket square.

This part belongs in the fashion thread rather than career thread: on behalf of most of the men in the world, we appreciate your fashion choice.

I'm glad the call went well. Hopefully you'll have a new offer letter shortly.

I need to hire some more experienced senior investments consultants but am really struggling to find candidates. I have a pretty good cohort of mid level consultants who I have been coaching and developing, but I need more people who can immediately lead really large, complex portfolios. Posting jobs online doesn't do much. The best candidates aren't looking at job postings. I need to identify them by word of mouth and approach them. I try to maintain a really wide network for referrals but it's not generating enough right now.

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Blauer, I remember what a tough time you had. I'm happy for you that things have improved so much. Best wishes to you for better times still. :cheers:

Thank you. I have to believe that all of it was for a very good reason that will one day come to fruition.

ETA: On a Side Note:

Moving back to the pit from whence I came has been very eye opening for me. Seeing how backwards and outdated the entire mindset and way of life is here has made me aware of what a Neanderthalic Troglodyte I must have been when I first ventured out into civilized society. I feel like I'm living the "Flowers for Algernon" experience. I guess you never really can go back home again.

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So I just got a meeting invitation from my boss that's about the position. Invitation is to me, no one else. I can't decide if this is a "you're it, these are the expectations" meeting, or a "I didn't give this to you, please don't burn down the building" one.

If it's the latter it seems kind of shitty to send this invite now and leave me to stew about it for a few days.

Edit: Could be a salary negotiation even. I'm afraid to be that optimistic.

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