Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

hallam

Where are these awesome sand snakes in the books?

Recommended Posts

One of the biggest complaints made about the show recently is that the Sand Snakes don't live up to expectations. This is rather odd since all I can remember of the Sand Snakes from the books is:



* Being caught


* Being locked up


* Being told by Prince Doran that he is picking his own moment



The Sand Snakes of the books are the pirates who don't do anything. We are told that they are awesome but they haven't got round to being awesome yet. So why expect them to be any different in the show?



Yes, the costumes are a little Xena Warrior Princess, but isn't that exactly what they are?



At least the show gave them the opportunity to attempt a kidnapping before they get locked up.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The sand snakes were cartoonish in the books, yes.



So, the expectation would be that the show would IMPROVE them, not make them worse, and even more cartoonish. That the show would do w/the snakes what they did with Daario, take away some of the more ridiculous elements of his description, tone it down, and make the visuals and personnas fit better with the rest of GOT.



Instead, we did get Zena+Charlies Angels and the bad dialogue and acting to match.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess the hate is that in the books they were in your head, and in your head they didn't look ridiculous holding let alone fighting with their weapons and didn't talk with terrible accents or do played in reverse back stands.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I pretty much agree.



I didn't like the Sandsnakes in the books.



I don't like the Sandsnakes in the show.



So for me, it's a wash.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah i completely agree. People who say the Sand Snakes are better in the books are people who are just mad because the show doesn't follow GRRM's word like it is law.

The book Snakes do literally nothing. They show up, bitch, then get thrown in jail. At least they have a little agency and actually get to show off these great fighting skills they supposedly have on the show.

In the books, they are the most gimmicky attempt at "bad girls". In the show, they are still pretty badass, but at least have something to show for it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Sand Snakes (minus Sarella) suck, have sucked and always will suck. In both mediums.



Also Obara can't even beat a one handed Jaime. Oberyn should have left her with her mom, she doesn't deserve to use his weapon of choice.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In the books we would at least get a chance to see them in action in the upcoming novel,whereas in the show we saw them and they looked terrible.The show messes up more and more with each upcoming episode.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Sandsnakes in the books look more like Fox Force Five or Deadly Assassination Squad than George's usual characters. And I think this was on purpose. They are one-dimensional, paper-thin hypocrites in the books. The show didnot lose anything in the adaptation. Bronn's one liner (you fight well... for a little girl) killed them all.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To be fair in the books their story is just starting . one is going to serve on the small council , another will try and get close to the High Septon and the third will be going after Gerold Dayne.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The sand snakes were not just better in the books, they were also less used.

And they at least had different personalities.

The problem of course is that they're not meant to be the main characters in the Dorne arc: Arianna and Doran are.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

IMO the sand snakes were pointless in the book. They were just filler. GRRM created them for the same reason he creates a lot of characters. He is procrastinating. I have said this over and over. It is easy to create characters, but it is difficult to make them actually do anything.



The idea of them is fine, but the sand snakes were just a waste of time in the books, as they are in the show. They remind me of a lot of characters that Milch created for Deadwood. He created tons of characters that were truly intriguing, but they ended up doing nothing and take time away from the main plot lines. I watched John from Cincinnati by Milch and he did the exact same thing there. Every episode was going nowhere, but yet new characters were being added. I remember even after the show was canceled, he was adding characters in the last episode. It is just a form of procrastination.



That is why I do not think that GRRM will be able to deliver a satisfying ending. I just do not think he can stop himself from just creating characters rather than writing an actual story.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To be fair in the books their story is just starting . one is going to serve on the small council , another will try and get close to the High Septon and the third will be going after Gerold Dayne.

I didn't like them in the books and I was disappointed that GRRM says he's giving them a larger role in Winds, because they are too me cartoonish and fairly silly, I generally didn't like Dorne too much in the books and found after so much build up...that when we finally get to Dorne and the Martells and the snakes, they were very disappointing.

But, that is no excuse for the show to turn them into B movie girls.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Sandsnakes are hardly GRRM's greatest literary creations, but they're at least distinct characters and nothing they do disgraces the narrative they're in. They're minor characters at the end of the day - so far at least. We're really just scraping the surface with them in the books.



In the show on the other hand, they are bought in as the focal point of the Dornish plot line, so the fact that they are even more undeveloped and cheesy than they are in the books is pretty unbelievable. There is honestly nothing distinguishing them from one another aside from their choice of weapons, and the plot they are involved in is atrocious, far more poorly written than not just anything in the books, but pretty much anything in the show.



So in short, in the books the Sandsnakes are mediocre tertiary characters with a bit of pinache to them. In the show, they're pretty much the worst thing D+D have put on screen in 5 years. Which is saying something.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I personally don't have an issue with the sand snakes in the books, they are portrayed as an actual force to be reckoned with. For one there are more of them... secondly their function is more as covert operatives than a fighting force. The show's Bland Snakes have been reduced in scope and function. The truly unforgivable issue is in the show, they get their hands on Myrcella and then stop when Areo shows up. Seriously? Plunge a dagger into Myrcella's throat and game over... Dorne is at war with King's Landing and at that point Doran isn't going to put one of his few remaining allies in jail.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Way to build a massive strawman. Nobody has said that the Sand Snakes are awesome in the books.Point is that even though they are cliche and underdeveloped, they are still a a hell of a lot better than the complete jokes they are on screen.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The sand snakes are lame in both mediums, and I don't think I've ever seen someone argue that they were awesome in AFFC (less awful =/= great, or even good). Trying to shut down criticism on that basis is attacking a strawman.



Consider all the characters and storylines that D&D need to cut. Beric and Thoros haven't appeared since season 3, Edmure and the Blackfish have disappeared, Stoneheart doesn't exist, Yara/Asha pops up once a season to do something that is completely irrelevant, Victarion, Aeron and Euron don't exist, JonCon and Aegon don't exist, and there are likely more I'm forgetting.



All these characters and the stories relating to them are being cut to make way for characters that, like, two people enjoy. Why did D&D prioritize Nym, Tyene and Obara Sand, daughter of Oberyn Martell(!) over everything else? That's deserving of criticism.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Way to build a massive strawman. Nobody has said that the Sand Snakes are awesome in the books.Point is that even though they are cliche and underdeveloped, they are still a a hell of a lot better than the complete jokes they are on screen.

Point is you'd think they were these amazing, memorable, 3-dimensional characters considering the criticism against them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Point is you'd think they were these amazing, memorable, 3-dimensional characters considering the criticism against them.

We critic them for what they are on the show! And on the show, they're awful!

That doesn't mean they're good on the books.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Point is you'd think they were these amazing, memorable, 3-dimensional characters considering the criticism against them.

No you really wouldn't. There were other memorable characters that were cut yet they decided to keep some of the corniest characters from the books. Classic D&D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To me the thing is: They changed a lot of things from the books for TV to make it work and in many cases I'm kind of fine with it and get that a different medium calls for changes in story to make it work, even if I don't fully like the way they changed it, but at least I get the reasoning behind it.


What I then expected was that they would also change the things that for me even hardly worked in the books, they changed a lot of characters and stories and the one which in my opinion could really need a change, is just not changed (enough).



Dorne to me is really what completely falls flat for me this season and for once not for any book comparison reasons but for purely this is what we get to see on TV - reasons. The scene last episode to me almost seemed like slapstik, which is not only but also due to the sand snakes, but also the whole timing and Jaime and Bronn "sneaking" in and the fight choreographie and cutting of the scene, I've watched with a few non-bookreaders and everyone just felt the whole scene and characters in it felt "cheap" and not at all fitting into the overall series.



From a book comparison perspective changing Ellaria's character is for me probably worse than the Sand snakes, which I never cared much for to begin with.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×