Where are these awesome sand snakes in the books?

[JonCon's Red Beard]

That whole scene reminds me of Prince Charles (Charles I) and Buckingham trying to break into the Spanish Infanta's chambers in Madrid and "steal her hand" during the Spanish Match controversy. Especially the quirkiness of the entire scene. It would have been fantastic if Jaime would have tried to wear a fake beard.

http://i.imgur.com/ZOlljK9.png

[DemiNymph]

Yes Obara reminds me of Xena, are we sure they didn't overlay Xena onto the picture?

Xena can kick the asses of 50 GoT sandsnakes. They can all come together and she will still win. That's how bad the sandsnakes are.

[gash is back]

the entire kingdom of dorne and all who dwell in her sucked in the books too. oberyn was mildly interesting but everything else sucked. almost as boring as the vale.

[Mithras]

Obara: I am Obara, daughter of Oberyn Martell!

Stannis: Natural daughter.

Davos: Wha?

Stannis: Nothing.

Jon: I know.

[JonisHenryTudor]

http://i.imgur.com/ZOlljK9.png

hahahahah WTF?

Xena can kick the asses of 50 GoT sandsnakes. They can all come together and she will still win. That's how bad the sandsnakes are.

Yes they are terrible.

@MordredDayne

I think introducing them in the 4th book is part of the problem. But I also think that there is an expectation that since Dorne has a major role in the series, the characters would have a more interesting arc. Oberyn was/is fantastic....it ends there for me. I agree there are other flat characters, but I think the difference between Dany's bloodriders and the Sandsnakes is what is expected of them.

Perhaps in WoW the Dornish part will become more interesting? We are all accustomed to the Starks, Lannisters, etc, but along comes Dorne with water-gardens, and daft prince-ling, a prince who seems borderline pedophile (I don't actually think he is), and the SS who seem to huff and puff around.

[JonisHenryTudor]

.........

[JonisHenryTudor]

Obara: I am Obara, daughter of Oberyn Martell!

Stannis: Natural daughter.

Davos: Wha?

Stannis: Nothing.

Jon: I know.

Listen that scene was a courtesy for everyone in case we forgot who she was :cool4: .

[MordredDayne]

the entire kingdom of dorne and all who dwell in her sucked in the books too. oberyn was mildly interesting but everything else sucked. almost as boring as the vale.

I never tire of your razor sharp insights into the books.

[The Scabbard Of the Morning]

The sandsnakes were not awesome in the books, that's why they were minor side characters, they help illustrate the parties in Dorne that are angry at the Lannisters and King's Landing, they DO NOT drive any part of the plot that takes place in Dorne, because they were MINOR characters. The plot in Dorne was driven by Arianne and Doran.

The Sand Snakes were well suited for their minor role and excelled in it. It's D&D's problem that they chose to elevate these minor characters to prominence, and as the major players driving the action in Dorne. It doesn't work and they come across as lame when forced into this role. D&D really don't know good story telling at all.

[TepidHands]

It's D&D's problem that they chose to elevate these minor characters to prominence, and as the major players driving the action in Dorne. It doesn't work and they come across as lame when forced into this role. D&D really don't know good story telling at all.

Why have one complex female character when you can cast and costume three caricatures with Frito Bandito accents.

[Tagganaro]

I pretty much think they are the same as they are in the books on the show, it's just that in the books everything was centered around Arianne, and to a lesser extent Doran, which made their cartooniness less prominent and helped to hide their flaws a little bit more.

It's really interesting to me so far as the show has the great Alexander SIddig wasting away-- Theoretically removing both Arriane and changing Ellaria to be a cartoony sandsnake as well would allow Siddig as Doran to really dominate the screen more and provide a good counterbalance to the cartoon characters...but the show has not gone that way unfortunately.

Siddig and Areo have been more sidelined and we've gotten too much of the Sandsnakes and the Jaime/Bronn buddy cop show,

[MordredDayne]

I pretty much think they are the same as they are in the books on the show, it's just that in the books everything was centered around Arianne, and to a lesser extent Doran, which made their cartooniness less prominent and helped to hide their flaws a little bit more.

It's really interesting to me so far as the show has the great Alexander SIddig wasting away-- Theoretically removing both Arriane and changing Ellaria to be a cartoony sandsnake as well would allow Siddig as Doran to really dominate the screen more and provide a good counterbalance to the cartoon characters...but the show has not gone that way unfortunately.

Siddig and Areo have been more sidelined and we've gotten too much of the Sandsnakes and the Jaime/Bronn buddy cop show,

The way they have utilized Siddig (or haven't, really) is the most criminal thing about this story line. I'm hoping that he gets at least one good scene with Jaime before the end of the season. Maybe he can talk some sense to him and bring him around to where his character was at the end of season three. Otherwise casting him was the biggest waste ever.

[DarkAndFullOfTurnips]

I would have much less of a problem with them if they just used stunt doubles that could actually fight. I was expecting some eye-rolling dialogue and questionable motives but at the very least make them good fighters so we can enjoy the action even if we don't enjoy the dialogue.

[Tagganaro]

The way they have utilized Siddig (or haven't, really) is the most criminal thing about this story line. I'm hoping that he gets at least one good scene with Jaime before the end of the season. Maybe he can talk some sense to him and bring him around to where his character was at the end of season three. Otherwise casting him was the biggest waste ever.

I'm not optimistic. Even though Ciaran Hinds was a terrible miscast, he's still Ciaran Hinds playing an awesome character. They managed to screw that up and waste him as well.

[Good Guy Garlan]

Xena can kick the asses of 50 GoT sandsnakes. They can all come together and she will still win. That's how bad the sandsnakes are.

Don't you dare diss the Warrior Princess. Six year old me had the biggest crush on Lucy Lawless back in the day.

Anyway, the worst part about the Sand Snakes is that the show could've improved them. Not to sound like a broken record, but they should've picked one and developed her. They should have given Tyene part of Obara's backstory/mommy issues, keeping her sickly sweet personality, and I think they could've had a fan favorite in their hands.

[MordredDayne]

I'm not optimistic. Even though Ciaran Hinds was a terrible miscast, he's still Ciaran Hinds playing an awesome character. They managed to screw that up and waste him as well.

That's true, I think he was a terrible miscast, as well, and that they wasted him. Still, I liked the scene between him and Jon before his execution. At this point that's really all I want from Doran. After that I hope we never see Dorne again in the show.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

You know what was Doran's big scene? "Justice. Revenge. Fire and Blood".

What is he saying, now? "Lions. Incest. Badassery"?

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Xena can kick the asses of 50 GoT sandsnakes. They can all come together and she will still win. That's how bad the sandsnakes are.

Were the SS every supposed to be "warriors"? That's the one mistake the show is making. They are not.

I suppose Oberyn never intended their training to mean he was sending them to war. Any other knight could tear them apart one by one. Their training is more like a way to give them some sense of power and empowerment. He wasn't raising knights. He was raising women who weren't let any man try to step on them.

The weaponry is also not a norm for them. Only Obara and Nym handle weapons (the younger ones are a case of their own)..Tyene uses poison and Sarella has a bow like many other women in Westeros can handle a bow (Margaery, IICR). To me, looks like Sarella would rather go to "College" than try to be a warrior/soldier/fighter like Obara or Elia but she still knows how to take care of herself.

[Tagganaro]

Were the SS every supposed to be "warriors"? That's the one mistake the show is making. They are not.

I suppose Oberyn never intended their training to mean he was sending them to war. Any other knight could tear them apart one by one. Their training is more like a way to give them some sense of power and empowerment. He wasn't raising knights. He was raising women who weren't let any man try to step on them.

The weaponry is also not a norm for them. Only Obara and Nym handle weapons (the younger ones are a case of their own)..Tyene uses poison and Sarella has a bow like many other women in Westeros can handle a bow (Margaery, IICR). To me, looks like Sarella would rather go to "College" than try to be a warrior/soldier/fighter like Obara or Elia but she still knows how to take care of herself.

If I recall, only Obara is described as a "warrior". I think Areo describes her as strong and quick, but also realizes she's no threat to him at all as he could easily take her in a fight. Is that a comment on her being a shitty warrior or more that Areo is a badass? I'd probably go with the latter but it could just as well be the former.

But yeah, definitely Nym and Tyene, while dangerous, are not really described as warriors.

[MordredDayne]

hahahahah WTF?

Yes they are terrible.

@MordredDayne

I think introducing them in the 4th book is part of the problem. But I also think that there is an expectation that since Dorne has a major role in the series, the characters would have a more interesting arc. Oberyn was/is fantastic....it ends there for me. I agree there are other flat characters, but I think the difference between Dany's bloodriders and the Sandsnakes is what is expected of them.

Perhaps in WoW the Dornish part will become more interesting? We are all accustomed to the Starks, Lannisters, etc, but along comes Dorne with water-gardens, and daft prince-ling, a prince who seems borderline pedophile (I don't actually think he is), and the SS who seem to huff and puff around.

It's interesting that you didn't mention the main character of the Dornish story line, Arianne. I thought she had an interesting arc in AFFC, particularly her relationship with Doran. Now, I know that a lot of people don't like Arianne and most of Dorne, and this thread isn't the place to debate it. The Sand Snakes, as tertiary characters, were no more or less interesting to me than the tertiary characters in any other story lines. I guess I don't see why (in the books) people should have any major expectations of them. They're not the focus of the story. Every region with a major role in the story has these kinds of characters. If Arianne didn't exist, like in the show, I could see people being upset that there isn't much to them. Maybe it's people's lack of interest and dismissal of Arianne that makes them focus more on the Sand Snakes than they would otherwise?