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Stan Man

Why Did Cersei Defend Margaery?

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it ' s painfully obvious that Cersei put the squire boy up to this , and she knows Loras has a birthmark , and the squire revealing this is part of her plan . but she chose to be the one to " prompt " for evidence to make her look impartial . this indeed makes her look impartial , the proof of this is how so many members on this forum were unable to spot this simple nonsense . . .


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it ' s painfully obvious that Cersei put the squire boy up to this , and she knows Loras has a birthmark , and the squire revealing this is part of her plan . but she chose to be the one to " prompt " for evidence to make her look impartial . this indeed makes her look impartial , the proof of this is how so many members on this forum were unable to spot this simple nonsense . . .

Why would you think Cersei put him up to this? I admit this is the only thing that could explain Olyvars readiness to confess (he doesn't seem to have been tortured), but there is nothing to suggest he answers to Cersei except the lack of another explanation. Which in itself is pretty poor storytelling.

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It was obviously a lie and put-upon - in fact, it was to set up Olyvar's revelation for greater impact - and I thought Lena Headey did a great job in striking the perfect balance between making it seem just believable enough such that the character believes that she's lying effectively, but the bullshit is still absolutely clear to the audience. (Apparently, as per this thread, it wasn't clear to everyone, but I'd wager to at least 9 out of 10 viewers.)



Joffrey was a better liar than Cersei. The "your words have moved me" to Sansa and the bit of kabuki theater where Joffrey had to "regrettably" drop his engagement to Sansa and accept Margaery's "love" in front of the whole court were amusingly bad lies (in a good way; that's obviously what the viewer was supposed to take away), but still more convincing than Cersei, who's undoubtedly convinced that she's a master at this.


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Classic tactic to misdirect your true intentions.

Cersei jumping to defend the Tyrells instantly makes her seem innocent of being a part of the plot, I have a feeling she may protest too much which could mean some of the suspicion coming back her way,

Mainly for her simpleton son. She can say she was defending his wonderful queen when it is all bullshit.

So will Cercei get her walk of shame in the show? The producers seem to really love her winning so it seems not? The show is more depressing than the books. In the books almost everything bad happens to the "good" people. In the show they go even further.

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Why would you think Cersei put him up to this? I admit this is the only thing that could explain Olyvars readiness to confess (he doesn't seem to have been tortured), but there is nothing to suggest he answers to Cersei except the lack of another explanation. Which in itself is pretty poor storytelling.

I've been wondering about why Olyvar confessed actually. Cersei put him up to it makes some modicum of senses but not enough (for me). The show is making it seem like gay sex is a super huge crime - the faith goes in and violently apprehend the Queen's brother for it, I'd assume, therefore, that there must be some pretty big consequences for it, and if there are serious penalties for it (death or torture of whatever else), then why would Olyvar admit to it? In order condemn Loras, he equally has to condemn himself. Or is he claiming that he was forced into it? And of so, what's to stop Loras from then messing him up and saying that was a lie. Just seems to me like he's cutting off his nose to spite his face.

Other option, I suppose,is that the consequences aren't that serious and you just need to repent, but in that case, wtf is Loras doing? He can just confess and save his family all this trouble.

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I've been wondering about why Olyvar confessed actually. Cersei put him up to it makes some modicum of senses but not enough (for me). The show is making it seem like gay sex is a super huge crime - the faith goes in and violently apprehend the Queen's brother for it, I'd assume, therefore, that there must be some pretty big consequences for it, and if there are serious penalties for it (death or torture of whatever else), then why would Olyvar admit to it? In order condemn Loras, he equally has to condemn himself. Or is he claiming that he was forced into it? And of so, what's to stop Loras from then messing him up and saying that was a lie. Just seems to me like he's cutting off his nose to spite his face.

Other option, I suppose,is that the consequences aren't that serious and you just need to repent, but in that case, wtf is Loras doing? He can just confess and save his family all this trouble.

I'm confident we'll get a half-assed scene in the next episode or two explaining how they told Olyvar he'd be free from punishment if he implicated FabuLoras....and then DUH DUH DUUUUHHHHHHHH his immunity will be taken away

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Odds are she was the one who found Olyver and arranged his testimony before hand. Based on her facial expressions and tone she likely knew exactly what he was going to say. Of course the squires "proof" of the birthmark was completely stupid considering the duties of a squire, but I didn't have any problem with Cersei "playing innocent" as if she was on Margaery's side.

I don't understand why the "proof" provided by the squire was stupid. The whole thing was a kangaroo court and that was the point, everything had been arranged before the hearing happened and no matter how flimsy the evidence or what anyone said the result would have been the same.

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I don't understand why the "proof" provided by the squire was stupid. The whole thing was a kangaroo court and that was the point, everything had been arranged before the hearing happened and no matter how flimsy the evidence or what anyone said the result would have been the same.

Yeah but that's like saying the scene would've been just as effective if they flipped a coin to determine Loras and Marg's fate....and I, for one, would prefer to see a well-made show that pays attention to the details

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Yeah but that's like saying the scene would've been just as effective if they flipped a coin to determine Loras and Marg's fate....and I, for one, would prefer to see a well-made show that pays attention to the details

The scene was the opposite of a coin flip, leaving something to a chance. Marg's fate was decided before the hearing and Loras was just the means to convict Marg. I'd be surprised if FM actually cares about Loras' homosexuality, afterall he wasn't the target at all, Marg was.

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Mainly for her simpleton son. She can say she was defending his wonderful queen when it is all bullshit.

So will Cercei get her walk of shame in the show? The producers seem to really love her winning so it seems not? The show is more depressing than the books. In the books almost everything bad happens to the "good" people. In the show they go even further.

Yes Cersei has her walk of shame coming up.

It was a fairly large news story at the time they filmed it.

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I'm confident we'll get a half-assed scene in the next episode or two explaining how they told Olyvar he'd be free from punishment if he implicated FabuLoras....and then DUH DUH DUUUUHHHHHHHH his immunity will be taken away

No doubt, but I still don't see why he would've confessed. I mean, he was literally the only proof they had, and if he just didn't say anything. Then there would've been nothing on him or Loras. Unless they'd already captured him for something else and he was trying to get off the hook for being at one of the brothels, but we didn't see that happening, when it would've been super easy to show.

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No doubt, but I still don't see why he would've confessed. I mean, he was literally the only proof they had, and if he just didn't say anything. Then there would've been nothing on him or Loras. Unless they'd already captured him for something else and he was trying to get off the hook for being at one of the brothels, but we didn't see that happening, when it would've been super easy to show.

The squire worked in Littlefinger's brothel and earlier in the episode the brothel he's in gets assaulted by the Faith Militant and the squire tries to run away when he sees them killing a client and the scene ends before we know what happens to him. The next time he appears he's testifying against Loras.

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This whole debate makes me wish Taena even more. How interesting it would have been if Cersei was publicly denouncing homosexuality while engaging in homosexual behavior herself? I guess they didn't want her to be that level of hypocritical...

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Here's an excerpt from the Holy Inquisition scene:

Squire: "[Loras and I] engaged in intimate relations."

High Sparrow: "You lay with him."

Squire: "That night and many others."

Loras: "Liar. He's a liar."

High Sparrow: "Is there anyone else who can support your claim?"

Squire: "Yes. Queen Margaery."

Margaery: :worried:

Squire: "She walked in on us once not long ago. She didn't seem surprised."

Cersei: "This testimony is an insult to a great house. Why should the Faith take the word of a Squire over the heir to Highgarden?"

Cersei usually overestimates her intelligence, but she is smart enough to know that the Squire's testimony has Margaery in the bag. Why defend her?

Cersei has been pretty quiet about arming the Faith Militant, shrugging it off as not my problem, inconsistent with her typical micromanaging and paranoia. Obviously she didn't want to intervene when they arrested Loras because, hey, what an insult to the Tyrells. But now that she can stand by and watch Loras and Margaery incriminate themselves... why does she speak up and attack the Faith's system? Surely she didn't have a stroke of kindness? ;)

she never pretended to protect them.

She said that to introduce Loras squire... She has been against the Tyrells since day one.

this line is pure irony

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Cersei wasn't just saving face, she was actually aiding Olyvar's testimony. Her intervention was his cue to speak about Loras' birthmark (a pretty stupid piece of evidence if you ask me, but it was the "smoking gun" in that kangaroo court). Cersei made an objection so that Olyvar could overrule it. It probably was even rehearsed.


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The squire worked in Littlefinger's brothel and earlier in the episode the brothel he's in gets assaulted by the Faith Militant and the squire tries to run away when he sees them killing a client and the scene ends before we know what happens to him. The next time he appears he's testifying against Loras.

Yes, it is now confirmed that we all watched the same episode

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Cersei wasn't just saving face, she was actually aiding Olyvar's testimony. Her intervention was his cue to speak about Loras' birthmark. Cersei made an objection so that Olyvar could overrule it.

Yep.

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This whole debate makes me wish Taena even more. How interesting it would have been if Cersei was publicly denouncing homosexuality while engaging in homosexual behavior herself? I guess they didn't want her to be that level of hypocritical...

It is part of the show making Cercei smarter and less crazy than in the books. Just like Tyrion is a much much better person on the show.

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