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That guy Alistair

I'm not buying this Faith Militant

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So armed with a few cudgels they can run around the city crushing and harassing anyone they want? Seems really fucking stupid.

The smallfolk would get behind a group who hates sex and liquor? Seems like the two most cherished items of smallfolk. Would make quite a bit more sense if they were standing up for the injustices done to smallfolk instead of choosing to attempt to abolish two things that apparently only they care about.

The whole thing makes very little sense on the show.

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We did get a bit of what the smallfolk were putting up with with Sandor and Arya stealing from Sally and her father, and worse with Polliver and crew raping and pillaging their way around the Trident. But the Rhodes Scholars running this show didn't bother to connect any of that with destroying septs or raping septas or anything that might prompt a religious uprising. It just comes out of nowhere.


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That's what happens when the show mostly ignores smallfolk. A lot of the context for WHY this group came about/became a big thing has either been removed entirely or at least minimized. But hey, making them gay-bashing, alcohol-hating fundamentalists works to right, ugh.


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I'm not sure if the High Sparrow, even in the books, has good intentions. Or, at least, good intentions so far as what's really good for the people. See how he got his army, and let the army in KL instead of taking it to the Riverlands where it's needed.

While we don't have his pov, I think the HS is like Mel. He does have good intentions at the end. He's just extremist and fanatic.

The current main leader of catholic church in my city is a guy like that. I won't deny he's a good person because I do believe he is. But he's very wrong as he actually encourages people to believe things that end up being hateful and that's why the Vatican has just given him the thumbs down and is skipping our country from their next official Latinamerican tour. When Da Vinci Code was premiered, I just wanted to watch the movie and I went. He, of course, condemned it. Consequence? My grandmother didn't talk to me for like a week. But guess what? He did believe what he was doing is right, he believes he's saving our souls from being tempted by doubt. I agree that's a bit of a shalow example (he has said worst, tbh), but that portrays him right. And of course, he's also seventy something, you can't teach an old dog new tricks. Younger priests are more likely to be more open and understanding.

I did like that he made some septons clean the floor. Jesus himself did things like that (well, he kinda did it himself when he washed his apostle's feet), but he also called hypocrites many of the Masters of Law and Faith of his time (at least in the Christian/Catholic lore, which I suppose Martin knows well, as he was raised Christian). I also liked that he openly defied the Nobility, because that's something Jesus also did. But, Martin, being a breaker of tropers, didn't want to create another Jesus. He made him a sexist person who believe women are the devil because they have devilish parts (Jesus simply forgave the prostitute for her sins and send her away unhurt). And while we, as readers, believe Cersei deserved a punishment, that one was very cruel.

I agree that he's more helpful in the Riverlands, but in the same way, him being in the place where the power resides help him to make others aware of the problem. Or maybe he just wanted to make someone pay for what happened to the people. If he believes Cersei has indeed cuckolded the King, then she's very responsible of the whole thing in first place, whether is a sin or not at the eyes of the Gods. Maybe he believes that's the reason why things are wrong and he feels he needs to remove the corruption from the Throne to start having peace, which is something both Stannis and Dany also want to do. Of course, he cannot attack Jaime because Jaime can fight back.

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But but but.. they give away their shoes! Of course the smallfolk flock to them - they finally have shoes! /sarcasm

I wish we had some version of Septon Meribald...

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I wish we had some version of Septon Meribald...

You mean, have someone portray how religions has a good compassionate side because religions on their own aren't good or bad but they get corrupted due to the flaws of the humankind?

You got the wrong show.

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Not to mention how they came about deciding to give Loras Tyrell a trial... A birthmark, seriously? The guy was his squire, he helped him dress for battle. Nudity is not a big deal in Westeros. It stands to reason your squire has seen you naked, sex or no sex. And then to have a trial against Margaery based on that? Terrible writing.


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Not to mention how they came about deciding to give Loras Tyrell a trial... A birthmark, seriously? The guy was his squire, he helped him dress for battle. Nudity is not a big deal in Westeros. It stands to reason your squire has seen you naked, sex or no sex. And then to have a trial against Margaery based on that? Terrible writing.

thats the entire point, that the proof is completely ridiculous. its the same way in the books, margaery and her cousins get arrested on completely bullshit "proof" but the high sparrow and faith doesn't care because they're nutty zealots

lol the birthmark proof is actually less stupid than the proof of the books of margaery and her cousins having orgies imo

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thats the entire point, that the proof is completely ridiculous. its the same way in the books, margaery and her cousins get arrested on completely bullshit "proof" but the high sparrow and faith doesn't care because they're nutty zealots

lol the birthmark proof is actually less stupid than the proof of the books of margaery and her cousins having orgies imo

But there is a very important proof: Marg is not a virgin in the sense as she has not an intact hymen. That's casual evidence but evidence, nevertheless. Because while it can be just as Cersei said and it was due to horse riding (or many other reasons), it can also be due to have sex with a man. She was released but after all, she was arrested meanwhile the case was being solved.

In the show, they have an evidence that can be debunked by saying simply "duh, guy is my squire". Margaery couldn't just say "duh, I'm into gymnastics". Nobility had no privacy as we know now. They were not only witnessed to consummate marriages, but people was even allowed to watch the Queen giving birth. Anyone could say "I am actually the heir's real father because I saw the Queen having a birthmark in her pubis!" yet, no one would say something that idiotic because they would be beheaded for slandering the Queen with such a nonsense statement. But a guy saying "your wife is not a virgin due to me" and having the girl examined and finding out she was in fact, not intact, was a powerful accusation with some basis. The only way to prove it didn't happen it was if the guy admits he was lying, which is happening in Marg's case.

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But there is a very important proof: Marg is not a virgin in the sense as she has not an intact hymen. That's casual evidence but evidence, nevertheless. Because while it can be just as Cersei said and it was due to horse riding (or many other reasons), it can also be due to have sex with a man. She was released but after all, she was arrested meanwhile the case was being solved.

In the show, they have an evidence that can be debunked by saying simply "duh, guy is my squire". Margaery couldn't just say "duh, I'm into gymnastics". Nobility had no privacy as we know now. They were not only witnessed to consummate marriages, but people was even allowed to watch the Queen giving birth. Anyone could say "I am actually the heir's real father because I saw the Queen having a birthmark in her pubis!" yet, no one would say something that idiotic because they would be beheaded for slandering the Queen with such a nonsense statement. But a guy saying "your wife is not a virgin due to me" and having the girl examined and finding out she was in fact, not intact, was a powerful accusation with some basis. The only way to prove it didn't happen it was if the guy admits he was lying, which is happening in Marg's case.

IMO the birthmark thing serves the same purpose on the show. just like how a broken hymen can be due to horse riding, olyvar could have seen loras birthmark just because he was his squire. but in both cases, the faith goes with the arrest without considering those alternatives.

considering the fact that EVEN cersei knows that just a broken hymen is bullshit evidence for adultery, it really shows how FULL of shit the high sparrow and faith militant are even in the books

just like how in the show margaery and olyvar could have said that olyvar was loras' squire, in the same way margaery could have said in the books that her broken hymen was due to duh! horse riding.

either way, the witnesses in the books-osney, blue blard and all other were lying. in the show, olyvar was telling the truth.

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Yeah you can almost forgive them for portraying the FM as a cross between the Westboro Baptists and ISIS to make it relatable to a TV audience but the shere mind numbing stupidity of having a large city being completely taken over by a few dudes dressed in wool robes carrying....sticks. I mean wtf is that all about? The FM in the books are Knights, men at arms, many of them nobles and experienced warriors.

Good point as well. I had actually forgotten the FM (not to be confused with Faceless Men) had real knights and soldiers in their order in the book. Not just scruffy club bearing ruffians.

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thats the entire point, that the proof is completely ridiculous. its the same way in the books, margaery and her cousins get arrested on completely bullshit "proof" but the high sparrow and faith doesn't care because they're nutty zealots

lol the birthmark proof is actually less stupid than the proof of the books of margaery and her cousins having orgies imo

There is also the confessions from the alleged lovers. And unlike the show, these lovers aren't any Tom dick and Harry, but have some degree of nobility about them. It's not just some random prostitute

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Does Margary have a buttmark or something too? Did gay squire see it as well?



Also knowing a birthmark proves little. Rumors spread like wildfire in Red Keep. Anyone could have seen it and shared with someone else. Knowing the existence of it is not an evidence of anything. An intact hymen is a bit more suspicious, given the proof is a substance. Doesn't clearly prove anything, but enough evidence to raise eyebrows.



I am not condemning the fact that a buttmark is not enough evidence to question, it maybe is I dunno. But Loras could just reply with "so fucking what?" instead of "LIAAAARRRRR!". And they have zero evidence for Margaery and the charge is ridiculous as well.


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thats the entire point, that the proof is completely ridiculous. its the same way in the books, margaery and her cousins get arrested on completely bullshit "proof" but the high sparrow and faith doesn't care because they're nutty zealots

lol the birthmark proof is actually less stupid than the proof of the books of margaery and her cousins having orgies imo

My entire point was the show this past episode had horrible writing.

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My entire point was the show this past episode had horrible writing.

i agree, but the faith militant being ridiculous is not the reason for that. that was actually on point writing, just streamlined for tv purposes

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thats the entire point, that the proof is completely ridiculous. its the same way in the books, margaery and her cousins get arrested on completely bullshit "proof" but the high sparrow and faith doesn't care because they're nutty zealots

lol the birthmark proof is actually less stupid than the proof of the books of margaery and her cousins having orgies imo

It was hardly BS in the books. Osney kettleblack was a knight with a brother in the KG, no some random squire/pimp. The Grandmaester himself confessed he gave Margaery moon tea plenty of times.

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One of the big problems of ageing Tommen up and having Margery as an active player is it leaves gaping plot holes.



Edit: I really like the show FM though. The scenes raiding the brothels were great.


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It all depends on whether you see the faith militant heading down the road the show has gone at the start.



I think they have exactly the interpretation intended.


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You mean, have someone portray how religions has a good compassionate side because religions on their own aren't good or bad but they get corrupted due to the flaws of the humankind?

You got the wrong show.

Depends mostly upon the religon.

Although it is often the fundamentalistic views that everyone should be apart of it, leading to fanaticism, that because you are not, you are evil, or need to be preached at, condemned, justified to acts of zealotry, because it is so righteous

People are evil, religion often gives worshippers a cause to justify themsleves, because now it has become an act of their gods.

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I agree with most of what you said. Tommen really has no reason to attack the Sept in the books. He is a little kid who has no idea what is going on. So for Margaery's imprisonment he does nothing because Cersei is queen regent and he problably doesn't even know what happened or is lied to about it. Once Cersei is imprisoned Kevan has little reason to go to war to get her rescued and he is likely controlling Tommen at that point. Beyond that there are other pressing issues for the armies in the books. There is still fighting in the Riverlands and the Greyjoys are raiding the Tyrell lands as well as the siege of Dragonstone. In the show none of these are mentioned as threats so we have no idea what the Tyrell and Lannister armies are doing that would keep them from disarming the faith. Also the faith forgave a HUGE dept in exchange for being able to bear arms in the books and it was their suggestion. In the show Cersei suggested it with nothing directly asked for in return.

I have been wondering where the tyrell army got stuck in the show? I am deeply confused that it is somehow established that the lannisters have the biggest army in westeros (only their men) and once were followed by the rayns of c. !? what the hell? but that the tyrells have no army at all or at least some guards... that doesn´t seem logical at all...

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