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Did the show just spoil... *book spoilers, Unsullied beware*

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I dunno, but there are some weird parallels between this situation and Blackwater on the show. Sansa betrothed/married to a sadistic asshat where she's essentially a prisoner. Stannis conducting a siege/assault on where Sansa is staying. Sansa is told by others Stannis will save her and won't hurt her which prompts her to stay put. Littlefinger making agreements on the side to get himself more titles; agreements that result in unexpected troops showing up and destroying Stannis's potential victory. I'm sure they'll have Sansa react differently and be more proactive than last time so it won't all turn out to be the same, but I wonder if this is all somewhat intentional.


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Hallis Mollen is still out there somewhere with an honour guard, right? Just saying. I don't think it matters here... :)

AHhh ok. I was sure I missed someone.

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The whole 'maid slaying a giant in a castle made of snow' in the books is very open to interpretation. It could mean Sansa has 'slays' LF in WF, which him marching a Vale army North could set up. Sansa rips the head off that giant in ASOS. Maybe just wishful thinking, but it would be some sweet poetic justice to see LF beheaded in WF. If only for the possibility of that happening I would love to see him bring a Vale army North.



Also, logistics are not an issue to a Vale army going North. GRRM can easily craft a scenario in which it is doable. The snows simply stop for a time; Sympathetic/bribable soldiers in Moat Cailin open the gates, or there are simply sufficient ships at Gulltown to transport the army. If GRRM wants to bring a Vale army North, he can do it.



However, I think trying to claim the North is an insane risk for LF, and would be uncharacteristically stupid of him, but hey, the guy has to slip up and die sometime, right? And obviously the thought of being Warden of the North and overlord of the Stark's castle and lands would give the guy a major revenge boner. Maybe that's his motivation in this.


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You are probably correct that the North does not know she betrayed Ned. I just do not give her a pass on her behavior and I think she has to pay for her mistake by suffering. Do not get me wrong, I like the character just as I like Theon, but both of them betrayed people they should have been loyal to and I find it somewhat fitting that they now will suffer for those betrayals at the hands of the same person.

I do understand the Sansa was young, but given the time period, she should have been a lot more mature and known enough not to betray her father. I could have seen her flouncing around in a snit and pouting, but to do what she did was rather unforgivable.

She did nothing to betray her father. In fact, she acted out of innocence. How that somehow got into a "Sansa deserved her rape" debate is senseless. It's not like she was a prisoner of the crown, beaten, forcibly married, isolated, alone, had her entire family killed. No, she needed to pay by being raped.

Also, the fact that you are comparing Theon sackingg Winterfell with Sansa's mistake... I sometimes wonder if people have read the same books.

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She did nothing to betray her father. In fact, she acted out of innocence. How that somehow got into a "Sansa deserved her rape" debate is senseless. It's not like she was a prisoner of the crown, beaten, forcibly married, isolated, alone, had her entire family killed. No, she needed to pay by being raped.

Also, the fact that you are comparing Theon sackingg Winterfell with Sansa's mistake... I sometimes wonder if people have read the same books.

Sansa was not told the specifics of why her father was sending them away. Sansa did make a mistake because, like other times, she did not have all the info. Her character has been left in the dark as far as knowledge goes since the beginning. Ned though, was her father and she should have not told Cersei but at the time, Ned is not motherly, he could not be. Sansa needed Cat, Ned needed her too but there were so many things set in motion, Sansa, who never appreciated the North or the Northern life, wanted to stay in King's Landing and be the Queen. understandable but she was a young child who made a mistake that had no idea of the ramifications. I have long forgiven her character for that. She has suffered enough, even before last week's episode.

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:agree:

Finally, someone said it. I am looking for LF and Sansa to have a large blow out. For some reason a lot of people have really gotten on the Sansa bandwagon, thus leading to all the fussing about her storyline in the show. They do not seem to mind Jayne Poole having to endure Ramsay in the books, but Saintly Sansa cannot possibly be made to suffer. I am afraid the Sansa story is not going to be that successful in either the show or the books.

I like the character in the show and in the books. I think Sophie does an excellent job of portraying her, but I am just do not see her as a heroine. Of course everyone says the North Remembers, but what the North remembers may be that Sansa betrayed here father to Cersei. I do understand that she was a kid, but she still should have had better sense and not been so selfish.

I don't think book readers are OK with how Ramsay treated Jeyne Poole. In fact, most readers are horrified. As is Reek. His remembrance of his childhood with Jeyne, and the Horrors Ramsay is inflicting on her, is what finally leads to his act of heroism. If somebody enjoys Ramsay's actions, they should probably get some therapy. I don't think Martin intended for the readers to be ok with the Jeyne/Ramsay plot line.

As far as Sansa in the books. I do think she will encounter some misfortune, and I do think she will ultimately die. Though I think it more likely to be at the hands of Arya right when Sansa seems to be coming into her own and finding her way. But that is a total guess.

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