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[Book Spoilers] EP507 Discussion


Ran
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I think they made it seem like theon was walking up the tower steps but in reality he just walked by the tower and straight to Ramsey's room. It kind of played a surprise on the viewer... Remember the tower is still ruined (it's the one bran fell from) and ramsey was not sitting in a ruined room.

I can't believe he did that. Ramsay has way too much control over him. How long was he with ramsay? years right?

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Stannis won't burn shireen because if he did then he would win, and that is too easy. He's gonna make the ultimate sacrifice and NOT burn Shireen and lose everything he's been striving towards. Gonna be a bitter/sweet ending for him.

this is a great point and would really be the best ending for the character (assuming he will not end up on the throne). I'd fully sign up for this in both book and show please.
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I think they made it seem like theon was walking up the tower steps but in reality he just walked by the tower and straight to Ramsey's room. It kind of played a surprise on the viewer... Remember the tower is still ruined (it's the one bran fell from) and ramsey was not sitting in a ruined room.

I can't believe he did that. Ramsay has way too much control over him. How long was he with ramsay? years right?

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Are we really arguing that a bunch of KW who are rapists and thugs would not go after one of Crasters daughter/wives who also spent time in Mole town?

Are you really arguing that the men of the Night's Watch had to try to rape her? Again, this is not a documentary. It's D&D's choice.

Come on if the Sansa rape had not occurred know one would have thought that this was a strange plot development.

Well obviously the show's longstanding and most recent issues with gratuitous rape scenes don't help the show's case.

Also it advances the plot that both Sam and the girl most get out of the Wall soon.

There are plenty of ways to argue that an outpost at the northern edge of civilization preparing to repel an invasion of ice zombies as what is likely to be the harshest winter in living memory begins to set in is not the best place for a mother and child without having a couple of random dudes try to rape Gilly.

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I agree. I'm just spitballing, but maybe the reason Sansa had to have some form of sex in the show is that Book Sansa gets pregnant, maybe by Harry, and if Harry was scrapped, she needed to get pregnant by other means. Doesn't mean she had to get raped, but short of writing in a consensual non-Harry love interest, I can see why they thought it would be easier to mash up her storyline with Jeyne's.

Agreed.

If a pregnancy (either real or suspected) has a large impact on Sansas story going forward then I can understand D&D combining Sansa and Jeyne rather than trying to introduce a new love interest for her (especially if Harry turns out to be a mega douche)

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I think LF meant sweet robin, not sure where that would go though.

We know the HS is smart- I believe he was playing cersei all along just to gain the power he needed and now she's no longer useful, plus getting her in a cell now leaves tommen (conveniently the only real threat to the faith militant) without any trusted advisors.

Until Uncle Kevan gets to KL. Cersei is a witch but she is Tywin's daughter no way Kevan is just going to allow these nutjobs to usurp Lannister power.

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I can't believe he did that. Ramsay has way too much control over him. How long was he with ramsay? years right?

exactly and I think that's what they meant to show- the moment theon left Sansa with the candle he was going straight to ramsey, he just happened to walk by the tower so it made the viewer think "he's actually going to break out of it and help her" then... Nope.
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Gendry roed away from Dragonstone and likely went back to the bottoms in KL, LF would be the kind of guy to keep tabs on Robert's bastards, especially after most were killed in season one.

He was last seen rowing out to sea. Before that he was in Stannis' dungeons. Before that he was trapsing through the war torn riverlands, or as a captive of one group or another. What tabs?

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Although the Sansa rape scene was horrible I think it is necessary to the plot. She was obviously never going to willingly have sex with Ramsey but if she gets pregnant then she will be mother to the heir of winterfell after Roose and Ramsey finally snuff it. I hate the idea of the heir to winterfell not being a stark, however the child will have stark blood so that helps. You can't justify rape but I don't believe it was pointless

Rape is only ever necessary to the plot of a story about rape.

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i agree there was a reason for Sansa finding out about Jon... Pretty clear castle black will be her intended destination when she escapes. Whether she gets there or if she gets there before Jon gets back who knows.

I think she will stay, get a letter to Jon.

She is the Stark in WF.

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Stannis could go ahead with Shireen - he wants the throne - he was ok to kill his brother.

Well, I guess Mr. Logical will have to do some self reflection on why it was ok to sacrifice Gendry in Season 3 but not Shireen. I guess sacrifice of family members for the good of the realm doesn't apply to immediate family members.

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Well, I guess Mr. Logical will have to do some self reflection on why it was ok to sacrifice Gendry in Season 3 but not Shireen. I guess sacrifice of family members for the good of the realm doesn't apply to immediate family members.

A nephew you have never met is not the same as a daughter.

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Well, I guess Mr. Logical will have to do some self reflection on why it was ok to sacrifice Gendry in Season 3 but not Shireen. I guess sacrifice of family members for the good of the realm doesn't apply to immediate family members.

The bastard (that he never knew) of a brother (that he he never loved) can't be equated to his own flesh and blood daughter.

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He was last seen rowing out to sea. Before that he was in Stannis' dungeons. Before that he was trapsing through the war torn riverlands, or as a captive of one group or another. What tabs?

Yeah exactly. Its not Gendry that LF is offering up. Whatever it is, it likely has nothing to do with Cersei. I'm sure LF knew this had to backfire on Cersei one way or another (he even told her it was a bad idea). There would be no need for LF to get involved in that. LF has something else cookin' (as usual).

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Are you really arguing that the men of the Night's Watch had to try to rape her? Again, this is not a documentary. It's D&D's choice.

Well obviously the show's longstanding and most recent issues with gratuitous rape scenes don't help the show's case.

There are plenty of ways to argue that an outpost at the northern edge of civilization preparing to repel an invasion of ice zombies as what is likely to be the harshest winter in living memory begins to set in is not the best place for a mother and child without having a couple of random dudes try to rape Gilly.

im honestly having trouble understanding what you are arguing here. Are you just saying it's an unnecessary scene? If so then sure but the same could be said with half the scenes in the entire show. Are you saying that the show has a fetish for rape or something? To my knowledge there is no more rape in the show than there is in the source material. Or is there something else you are trying to say?

Remember you are arguing the merits of a fictional story taking place in a fictional universe totally unlike our own. To project our own 21st century industrialized morals into it would be out of place.

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Again, I'm going to defend the Sam/Gilly scene because it was set up all along. Sam send Gilly to Mole town last season precisely because he was afraid something like this could happen. And Aemon tells Gilly to go South earlier this episode. The scene sets up why Sam needs to get Gilly away and Jon will send him on a mission to Oldtown and take GIlly with him. The fact that the show screwed up Sansa in Winterfell doesn't mean all threats of sexual violence should be avoided by the show. This is one situation where it actually makes sense to have it, because it fit into the story, was set up by earlier events, and provide motivation for future plot development.


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