jbob Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Are you really arguing that the men of the Night's Watch had to try to rape her? Again, this is not a documentary. It's D&D's choice. Everything is GRRM's and D+D's choice. Ned being executed was their choice. it's not a documentary so they could've had him live. Anway, it fit the situation she was in and was completely believable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 If Trystane is not his son then he has no children.... just saying... He's not Renly. You can get pregnant by Griff if he just looks at you. Coldly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winterfell is Burning Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Although the Sansa rape scene was horrible I think it is necessary to the plot. She was obviously never going to willingly have sex with Ramsey but if she gets pregnant then she will be mother to the heir of winterfell after Roose and Ramsey finally snuff it. I hate the idea of the heir to winterfell not being a stark, however the child will have stark blood so that helps. You can't justify rape but I don't believe it was pointless Bran and Rickon are still ahead of her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pashernate Reader Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 im honestly having trouble understanding what you are arguing here. Are you just saying it's an unnecessary scene? Yes. If so then sure but the same could be said with half the scenes in the entire show. Half the scenes in the show aren't rape scenes (thank god). Are you saying that the show has a fetish for rape or something? I'm saying it's embarrassing that they couldn't let one episode pass without falling back on it as a plot device. To my knowledge there is no more rape in the show than there is in the source material. Or is there something else you are trying to say? Rape is an oft-mentioned aspect of Westeros' openly patriarchal society. However, GRRM somehow manages to avoid using it to get Sam laid. Again, I'm going to defend the Sam/Gilly scene because it was set up all along. Sam send Gilly to Mole town last season precisely because he was afraid something like this could happen. And Aemon tells Gilly to go South earlier this episode. The scene sets up why Sam needs to get Gilly away and Jon will send him on a mission to Oldtown and take GIlly with him. The fact that the show screwed up Sansa in Winterfell doesn't mean all threats of sexual violence should be avoided by the show. This is one situation where it actually makes sense to have it, because it fit into the story, was set up by earlier events, and provide motivation for future plot development. And again I'm going to say that nothing forced D&D's hand in the matter. There are already lots of good reasons to get Sam and Gilly out of Castle Black. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sb.69 Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 his brother committed treason at a time of war .. Shireen is his HEIR Others already commented on Gendry, Shireen is a daughter, not a son. If Stannis gets the throne, he could easily get a son, which we know would be the true heir. Even though Stannis said no, he really just needed some convincing to see the big picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imp-ty Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 When he says "the same thing I offered Cersei, A boy" I assumed he's talking about Sweet Robin, referring to the Vale. He's engineering a war. Stoking tension and making alliances with a bunch of sides. He's doing it all in secret and in such a way that he various factions betray each other. Risky.Chaos is a ladder. Goes with show LF's explanation of Joffrey's death. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadlines? What Deadlines? Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 it's sad how his didn't know anything about his old life. It's not just the torment, but the constant threat of torture. In the books, Reek is sometimes tortured for no reason, or Ramsey will engineer a situation where Reek can't win. e.g., Theon's admission to Lady Dustin (I think) that he begged Ramsey to remove his digits (which is literally true but hardly complete) or starving him half to death then threatening him with flaying or amputation for eating a rat in the pen he is kept without permission to "eat one of the dreadfort's rats". Also, engineering his escape so he could be hunted and brought back. Ramsey's version of being nice to Reek is "only" keeping him in a state of constant fear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWhiteRabbit Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Am I missing something? Why would it help LF/QOT to have a King Baratheon bastard? Margery is married to Tommen. Pressing Gendry's claim would weaken Tommen's and Margery's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 So.. just watched the episode. The Gift? Why don't we call this episode The Teasers? Jon leaves, Myrcella hates Jaime, the Sand Snakes literally dick with Bronn, Aemon dies, Thick Pink Mast, Tyrion meets Dany, LF gives QoT something, Ramsay starts in on Sansa, Reek isn't Theon, Margaery tells off Cersei and Cersei gets her comeuppance. Despite not much actually -happening-, this episode does set up a lot of plots. It really was all over the place in terms characters and geography. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
of man and wolf Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Exactly. Also, Liam Cunningham said something in passing about how parts of Season 5 were really sick, like whoever thought them up needed therapy. A father burning his adorable daughter alive would certainly qualify. Well if they did that it takes away from that nice little loving speech Stannis gave to Shireen earlier in the season. Stannis would also just seem like Mels lackey, which many people consider him to be at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pashernate Reader Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 fair enough but in the real world rape happens unnecessarily, in the world of ASOIAF rape happens unnecessarily. Are we to gloss over every bad thing that ever happens and only show the rainbows and happily ever afters? Portraying Westeros as a land of "happily ever afters" or having Gilly gratuitously attacked aren't the only choices the writers had available to them. Hardly if Sansa's most important plot line is to mother the heir of Winterfell. Sansa can't be mother to the heir of Winterfell without being raped? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sub_Zero94 Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Everything is GRRM's and D+D's choice. Ned being executed was their choice. it's not a documentary so they could've had him live. Anway, it fit the situation she was in and was completely believable. you are wrong there. unfortunately Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubarey Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 So.. just watched the episode. The Gift? Why don't we call this episode The Teasers? Jon leaves, Myrcella hates Jaime, the Sand Snakes literally dick with Bronn, Aemon dies, Thick Pink Mast, Tyrion meets Dany, LF gives QoT something, Ramsay starts in on Sansa, Reek isn't Theon, Margaery tells off Cersei and Cersei gets her comeuppance. Despite not much actually -happening-, this episode does set up a lot of plots. It really was all over the place in terms characters and geography. Actuallu having an illegitimate Baratheon still beats an incestous son of Lannister. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadlines? What Deadlines? Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Chaos is a ladder. Goes with show LF's explanation of Joffrey's death. Yeah, and he was lying to Sansa there. Joffrey's murder makes Lady Ollenna his co conspirator. It also gives him a mechanism to get Sansa out, though that's thread is going to take an unexpected turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pashernate Reader Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Everything is GRRM's and D+D's choice. Ned being executed was their choice. it's not a documentary so they could've had him live. Yes, they could have. However, Ned's being executed is one of the most significant plot points of the story D&D are adapting. Having Gilly attacked in order to get her in bed with Sam isn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannyk65 Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Portraying Westeros as a land of "happily ever afters" or having Gilly gratuitously attacked aren't the only choices the writers had available to them. Sansa can't be mother to the heir of Winterfell without being raped? I think you make great points but they seem to be falling on deaf ears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imp-ty Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 (edited) Brainfart... Nevermind Edited May 25, 2015 by imp-ty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Sansa's Direwolf Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Count me as one of those who hopes the High Sparrow knew about Cersei and Lancel and waited until the right moment to snare her. While the offer LF made to Olenna was vague, I think it was Sweet Robin and the troops of the Vale. In order for LF to complete his rise, the Lannisters have to fall completely. The only reason it might have been Gendry would be for the same reason Ned Stark went looking for him - the physical description of Robert's true children. The book on the HS's alter looked suspiciously like the book Ned read as well as his predecessor. If Sansa leaves WF as winter sets in the only logical destination would be Castle Black. But what would she find there? I like the idea of Jamie and Cersei's incest to be made public, all the way to Dorne and Meereen. That would force Jamie to confirm to Mrycella her parentage and give Dany another reason to ride her dragons across the sea. This seems a good shortcut for the directions GRRM seems to be heading. I do think Tommen isn't long for this world. Too few friends right now. Finally excited for this season! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadlines? What Deadlines? Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Hardly if Sansa's most important plot line is to mother the heir of Winterfell. Sansa can't be mother to the heir of Winterfell without being raped? Maybe that's not her most important plotline? Why is it that the strongest critics of Sansa's current situation assume she's now a non-character? Am I missing something? Why would it help LF/QOT to have a King Baratheon bastard? Margery is married to Tommen. Pressing Gendry's claim would weaken Tommen's and Margery's. He doesn't have him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pashernate Reader Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Count me as one of those who hopes the High Sparrow knew about Cersei and Lancel and waited until the right moment to snare her. While the offer LF made to Olenna was vague, I think it was Sweet Robin and the troops of the Vale. In order for LF to complete his rise, the Lannisters have to fall completely. The only reason it might have been Gendry would be for the same reason Ned Stark went looking for him - the physical description of Robert's true children. I never even thought about that, and I love it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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