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[Book Spoilers] EP507 Discussion

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I think Lancel confessed his sins to the High Septon long before Littlefinger's and Olenna's conversation. He has been self-righteous since his introduction in this season and it appears that he would have made a full confession to get this involved in the faith. I think the Cersei's downfall works better if the High Septon was playing her the whole time rather than waiting to be fed information by those who are obviously using the information to benefit their position.

Think the handsome boy Littlefinger was referring to was Gandry since the time line does not fit Lancel.

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Also did anyone pick up on mel saying to stannis something about a vessel of light coming to him? I've seen people discussing seeing fire in stannis' camp in a preview. Maybe a dragon? Didn't spare the idea any thought at first but after that it got me wondering...


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But that's the problem, ya see. If D&D want to show growing tension between the Watch and Jon/Sam, why do it by finding a woman to put in yet another rape scene? Why not simply have an encounter between Sam and those abandoning Jon?

Because rape is D&D's signature move.

lol ok sure it couldn't just be that they have limited time so killing two birds with one stone is the best way to go. It also couldn't be for the fact that it completely makes sense logically- hundreds of sex starved young men facing certain death and one woman (who by the way in their eyes is one of their swore enemies) hanging about the castle... It would be less realistic if nothing ever went that far.

I mean there was a reason they sent her away in the books. Unfortunately with the condensing required for the show that can't happen. But we can agree to disagree.

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If HS has been playing Cersei all along, I have to say his game was masterful:



1. Build a power base of supporting the people.


2. Expose the current High Septon's hypocrisy and discredit him in the eyes of the people.


3. When the queen comes calling, act humble and genial.


4. Readily agree to take down someone the queen implies she wants taken down.


5. Lull the queen into a false sense of security by discrediting people she wants discredited.


6. Sit on damning information until a precedent has been established for imprisoning nobles for their crimes.


7. Spring the trap and arrest the queen.


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Stannis won't burn Shireen. Someone else might, especially if he falls. Hopefully, if he senses an upcoming defeat, he will send Davos back to the Wall with his heir to fight on.



A decision not to burn his daughter might be something the writers do to give Stannis dignity before his possible death.


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If HS has been playing Cersei all along, I have to say his game was masterful:

1. Build a power base of supporting the people.

2. Expose the current High Septon's hypocrisy and discredit him in the eyes of the people.

3. When the queen comes calling, act humble and genial.

4. Readily agree to take down someone the queen implies she wants taken down.

5. Lull the queen into a false sense of security by discrediting people she wants discredited.

6. Sit on damning information until a precedent has been established for imprisoning nobles for their crimes.

7. Spring the trap and arrest the queen.

Yup.

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I think Lancel confessed his sins to the High Septon long before Littlefinger's and Olenna's conversation. He has been self-righteous since his introduction in this season and it appears that he would have made a full confession to get this involved in the faith. I think the Cersei's downfall works better if the High Septon was playing her the whole time rather than waiting to be fed information by those who are obviously using the information to benefit their position.

Think the handsome boy Littlefinger was referring to was Gandry since the time line does not fit Lancel.

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I think Lancel confessed his sins to the High Septon long before Littlefinger's and Olenna's conversation. He has been self-righteous since his introduction in this season and it appears that he would have made a full confession to get this involved in the faith. I think the Cersei's downfall works better if the High Septon was playing her the whole time rather than waiting to be fed information by those who are obviously using the information to benefit their position.

Think the handsome boy Littlefinger was referring to was Gandry since the time line does not fit Lancel.

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Well, D&D are screwed either way. If Sansa appears to be a stronger person for her rape, it will be decried as the "rape as empowerment" trope. If Sansa is traumatized by her rape, it will be decried as more of "Sansa as victim." If Sansa shrugged off the rape with no apparent ill effects, it will be decried as trivializing the suffering of rape victims.

They wrote themselves into this mess and it would be a surprise if they write themselves out of it. I suspect they will just dig themselves a deeper hole with the rape baby storyline they probably have lined up for next year. It will be interesting to see which side of Roe v Wade they fall on.

However given we still definitely have Jon's stabbing, the Walk and probably Shireen being burnt to death, I think everyone can have their fill from the forthcoming controversy buffet.

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If HS has been playing Cersei all along, I have to say his game was masterful:

1. Build a power base of supporting the people.

2. Expose the current High Septon's hypocrisy and discredit him in the eyes of the people.

3. When the queen comes calling, act humble and genial.

4. Readily agree to take down someone the queen implies she wants taken down.

5. Lull the queen into a false sense of security by discrediting people she wants discredited.

6. Sit on damning information until a precedent has been established for imprisoning nobles for their crimes.

7. Spring the trap and arrest the queen.

true. Although to be fair cersei is so laser focused on her own motives that she was easy pickings.

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Well, D&D are screwed either way. If Sansa appears to be a stronger person for her rape, it will be decried as the "rape as empowerment" trope. If Sansa is traumatized by her rape, it will be decried as more of "Sansa as victim." If Sansa shrugged off the rape with no apparent ill effects, it will be decried as trivializing the suffering of rape victims.

When Reek came in with food, she was wimpering. She is either reaching out for help or simply going to lay there, locked up, waiting for him to come and rape her every night like he does, eventually producing a baby and heir, securing the Bolton power line for another generation. She, I would think would be traumatized more but the writters are just saying her days in King's Landing toughened her up. I would say to them, she was still a virgin in King's Landing and was not raped every night as she is now. I have more faith in the female posters in this forum to give her actions a proper scrutiny over the writters and even myself.

Edited by Lord Damian

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Think the handsome boy Littlefinger was referring to was Gandry since the time line does not fit Lancel.

I like this theory. It makes the random bastard catcalls at Tommen when he visited the High Septom more integral to the plot. Also, Sansa called Tommen a bastard this episode so it appears they writers are trying to tie this initial plot line back into the season. Maybe this is how Tommen meets his end...

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lol ok sure it couldn't just be that they have limited time so killing two birds with one stone is the best way to go. It also couldn't be for the fact that it completely makes sense logically- hundreds of sex starved young men facing certain death and one woman (who by the way in their eyes is one of their swore enemies) hanging about the castle... It would be less realistic if nothing ever went that far.

I mean there was a reason they sent her away in the books. Unfortunately with the condensing required for the show that can't happen. But we can agree to disagree.

No. The only way that scene would have worked was with flowers, chocolate, music and a long foreplay.

Clearly Sam needed to do more to earn it and Gilly gave it to him way too soon and too easily. I mean they only just met and didn't even have a proper first date!

/s

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Selyse is going to be the one. I think she'll get false information that Stannis is dead or dying and she'll sacrifice Shireen. I think this episode shows that Melisandre has been able to get Stannis to do whatever she wants, but this is the one line he wont cross. Everyone hates Selyse and everyone can tell she is not fond whatsoever of Shireen, so I think it will be her to do it or attempt it...maybe Davos will save her.


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Exactly. Also, Liam Cunningham said something in passing about how parts of Season 5 were really sick, like whoever thought them up needed therapy. A father burning his adorable daughter alive would certainly qualify.

Not to mention what Stannis said in season 3 about Gendry. "What is the life of one bastard boy against a kingdom?" If things get really desperate and Melissandre told him that by sacrificing Shireen will save the kingdom, there is a chance that he might just do it, even if it's against his heart.

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