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[Book Spoilers] EP507 Discussion

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in the books the purpose for gilly leaving with Sam was because of the danger she was in between the wildlings and the NW.

The "purpose" for having Gilly leave with Sam was to smuggle Mance Rayder's baby out of harm's way, but that's neither here nor there.

We complain when d&d don't stay true to the source material but here they basically have.

No, they haven't, but that's neither here nor there.

Only difference is that instead of talking about it they provide some action to translate better on the screen.

There's nothing special about rape that translates better on the screen than the novel's actual plot, but that's neither here nor there.

I still take issue with your insinuation that d&d "fall back" on this type of plot device when in fact it is quite faithful to the books. Can you name any time they have done this where it wasn't in some way faithful to the books? I'm trying to think of one but can't...

I don't care how faithful this episode was or was not to the source material. That ship has long since sailed. What I do give a hoot about is how D&D couldn't go one episode without gratuitously having another of the show's female characters sexually assaulted. I'll say it a third time. There are plenty of non-rapey ways to make the case for Gilly and her baby being evacuated from Castle Black, an all-male military fortification hundreds of leagues from civilization preparing to stop the biggest threat to the Watch in 8,000 years, and winter is coming. So no, the assault was not in any way necessary for the plot, nor did D&D include it in order to be faithful to the source material. It was just a narrative shortcut to finally get Sam and Gilly in bed together. Game of Thrones is hardly the first show to do this. I like to call it the Super Mario maneuver.

Edited by Pashernate Reader

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Stannis' character assassination has resumed. Just when I thought they were doing well with him too I am still as confused as Stannis about how mere leeches work for kingslaying but blood sacrifice is required to navigate a blizzard I guess the Lord of Light has less power over the weather - just ask Axell Florent. Somehow I get the feeling Davos is going to smuggle her away, kidnap her - a sort of hybrid between his rescue of Edric Storm and Sama no Gilly fleeing with the baby to Oldtown. Fingers crossed for that.

if I was one of those soldiers in Stannis' army, I'd be wondering why I and my companions are freezing to death, losing horses constantly, when we have a fire witch amongst us. Maybe that's why the Storm Crows left.

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Sansa could have heard the info that Tommem was a bastard of invest like everyone else during the war of the 5 kings: rumors spread by the baratheons

The small folk hollered "abomination" at Tommen when he went to the sept of baelor after Loras's arrest.

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Don't have Tyrion become the savior of KL only to have him fall from grace later.

Don't have Cat say "We'll kill them all" in season 1 only have her life fall apart and cut her throat later.

Don't have Robb kicking southron arse all over the river lands just to kill him off at a wedding.

Don't make Oberyn a charismatic, likable kick ass character just to crush his skull.

Don't capture Jamie Lannister just to cut him loose.

Jesus, it's like unless a characters story is a continuous, uninterrupted, unidirectional progression, there's just "no way".

The funniest part about this whole thing is the overreaction to that scene from the last season.

Apparently being manipulated by LF into covering up your Aunt's death so he can secure the Vale and dying your hair black means Sansa was about to be a player.

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Sorry if this already got talked about somewhere, but could someone please explain to me what Cersei meant when she was talking Tommen out of marching the army to kill the faith militant and free Margaery and she said something like "who do you think will be the first victim of that war?". Is she talking about Margaery? As in if Tommen attacks the faith militant will kill her before he can save her? That doesn't really make sense, they are all about following their rules and killing a prisoner awaiting judgement is probably againt the rules.



And one more question. So Ramsey found out about the whole lighting the candle thing. Does this mean that Sansa can no longer do that and send the signal for help? I mean now that he knows about it, he'd probably keep an eye out for that, right? I'm actually surprised he didn't go light the candle up there himself to see this "help" show up for Sansa so he could kill them. Or maybe he did and that is how he got that old lady we saw.


Further, even though Sansa seemed strong when she had that chat with Miranda, then after the wedding and in the begging of this episode she is all scared and hurt, so I was kind of taken aback by her talking to Ramsey and being all like "youre a bastard, Tommen ligitimizing you doesn't count cauz he's also a bastard". Like if she is terrified of Ramsey and he is abusive towards her, shouldn't she be scared to say stuff like that to him cauz he can get pissed and hurt her more? Or is she prepared cauz she picked up that dagger/corkscrew thing off that barrel? Maybe she is going to try and defend herself?


Edited by Monette

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Apparently being manipulated by LF into covering up your Aunt's death so he can secure the Vale and dying your hair black means Sansa was about to be a player.

Littlefinger didn't manipulate her there. He had no idea what she was going to do. The writers were clear on that.

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Stannis' character assassination has resumed. Just when I thought they were doing well with him too I am still as confused as Stannis about how mere leeches work for kingslaying but blood sacrifice is required to navigate a blizzard I guess the Lord of Light has less power over the weather - just ask Axell Florent. Somehow I get the feeling Davos is going to smuggle her away, kidnap her - a sort of hybrid between his rescue of Edric Storm and Sama no Gilly fleeing with the baby to Oldtown. Fingers crossed for that.

if I was one of those soldiers in Stannis' army, I'd be wondering why I and my companions are freezing to death, losing horses constantly, when we have a fire witch amongst us. Maybe that's why the Storm Crows left.

The North is home to the old Gods. The Gods of winter. The red witch has no power there.

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The North is home to the old Gods. The Gods of winter. The red witch has no power there.

Yet, the closer she got to the Wall, the more powerful she got. Of course, this was just in the books.

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The North is home to the old Gods. The Gods of winter. The red witch has no power there.

Ah, that makes sense, though we haven't seen her burning down any weirwood trees yet for that purpose.

But she shot down Orell at the Wall, or at least in the books. If that wasn't just some firework trick.

You know what the stereotypical common soldier would be like. I can just imagine a group of them in a circle with frozen beards and moustaches, grumbling about the cold, with some obligatory joke about how Melisandre gets to keep Stannis warm at night, while they are freezing outside trying to light pathetic little campfires with numb fingers. That was quite a random aside!

Edited by The Grandmaster

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what did sansa pick up when she was talking to ramsay?

Checkov's shank. Ramsey is going to get stuck and Theon will help her escape.

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Only briefly scanned through all 46 pages of this thread (you guys are frantic posters) and I've not seen any mention of Tyrions chain breaker.



Personally I'm thinking it could be Strong Belwas making an appearance. Was he credited? It would make sense if it was Belwas, he was a pit fighter and someone I've missed from the books.


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Belwas was supposed to come along with Arstan Whitebeard but now that story line has ended with the death of Selmy then it does leave the door open for Belwas to be a part of the show. He's missed his chance to fight into Yunkai but I can imagine him being there to eat the poisoned locusts that are meant for Dany at the great pit fight.



Tyrion does owe the big fella for releasing him from his chains and a Lannister always pays his debts so could imagine Tyrion wanting him along as a bit of personal protection.


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The way they had the High Septon talking about the Targaryens got me thinking he is a Targaryen Supporter. Possibly Howland Reed working to get Jon on the throne?

funny....when Lady Olenna told the high septon she could smell a fraud a mile away...I believed her. The high septon does have a hidden agenda. I also think he is a Targaryen supporter...maybe in league with Varys....we shall see soon enough!

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Sansa could have heard the info that Tommem was a bastard of invest like everyone else during the war of the 5 kings: rumors spread by the baratheons

The small folk hollered "abomination" at Tommen when he went to the sept of baelor after Loras's arrest.

She found out from her father, when he was beheaded for telling the whole court that, and the "denying" it at the execution. Edited by Ser Steven

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Sorry if this already got talked about somewhere, but could someone please explain to me what Cersei meant when she was talking Tommen out of marching the army to kill the faith militant and free Margaery and she said something like "who do you think will be the first victim of that war?". Is she talking about Margaery? As in if Tommen attacks the faith militant will kill her before he can save her? That doesn't really make sense, they are all about following their rules and killing a prisoner awaiting judgement is probably againt the rules.

She was insinuating that, but she was lying to him so he wouldn't send in troops and rescue Margery. It was Cersei's plan to get Margery arrested. She didn't want her freed.

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She was insinuating that, but she was lying to him so he wouldn't send in troops and rescue Margery. It was Cersei's plan to get Margery arrested. She didn't want her freed.

Thanks, that's what I figured. I guess Tommen is too gullible at this point to see through any of it.

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The best part of these episode discussion threads is all the people with absolute knowledge of what's to come in the unpublished books who can therefore whine with confidence about how D&Ds plot lines don't make sense.

:cheers:

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