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[Book Spoilers] EP507 Discussion

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So I saw the episode yesterday and I wanted to share my opinion:


- Jon goes to the wildlings.

Some forshadowing by Alliser thorne of the upcoming (attempted) assassination on Jon.


- I didn’t read the dunk & egg novels (shame on me) yet, but what was that Aemon part about him shouting out egg, egg!? I don’t think many viewers understood anything of that. (They killed him of way to easy btw! Such a shame). I mean maybe he saw resemblance, but most people don’t know ‘egg.’ A little treat for the dedicated readers?!


- Which brings me to Sam. Aemon said he should go south (Oldtown?!)and take Gilly and the baby. In the books his reason to do so was (partly) because he had a kings child, but that switch didn’t happen here (right?!) So him getting beat up is the motivation for Sam to make the oldtown move?!


- Yeah, Ghost is back. Hopefully we will see other direwolves too?!


- Yeah some stannis stuff. Doesn’t really get me on the show tbh. And freaking sacrificing Shireen? Wtf is happening in this storyline?!


- Which brings me to that Sansa/Theon part! I hate it but I have to say that this was the first time they finally showed how freaking scarred Theon is. Not physically but mentally. In the books I always loved the parts where he was discussing with himself/thinking about himself and who he was. I think it was portrayed quite well in the books and I missed it in the show. Finally a little madness was shown to the viewer. Oh yeah, and Sansa got some stab object (couldn’t see well what it was, but it felt like it)


- Some Tyrell/LF scheming. Yeah, that had to come. First time we hear anyone admitting the murder on Joffrey didn’t we?! (Can’t recall that we ever heard anyone say it out loud in the books, only LF pretty much telling it us, just not literally..)


- Dorne felt really rushed on the Jamie/Myrcella part, and the Bronn part was so freaking useless IMO. Skip that bullcrap if you’re short on time, or just kill him off.


- Tyrion and Dany meet in the show, so Varys’ plan did work out, in a way. I wonder were Jorah will end up. (Drogon food?)


- Glad they finally took Cersei and put her in a cell. I guess they will skip her becoming crazy (or do it in 1 episode), but then again they skipped that with Theon (Reek) too. But her walking away from Margeary with a big smile on her face showed us a little of the crazy Cersei we all love. And herself being thrown in jail later on because of Lancels info was priceless of course. Even though, this also was rushed (I totally forgot they were banging before, were in the books it was still obvious for me.

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So I saw the episode yesterday and I wanted to share my opinion:

- Jon goes to the wildlings.

Some forshadowing by Alliser thorne of the upcoming (attempted) assassination on Jon.

- I didn’t read the dunk & egg novels (shame on me) yet, but what was that Aemon part about him shouting out egg, egg!? I don’t think many viewers understood anything of that. (They killed him of way to easy btw! Such a shame). I mean maybe he saw resemblance, but most people don’t know ‘egg.’ A little treat for the dedicated readers?!

- Which brings me to Sam. Aemon said he should go south (Oldtown?!)and take Gilly and the baby. In the books his reason to do so was (partly) because he had a kings child, but that switch didn’t happen here (right?!) So him getting beat up is the motivation for Sam to make the oldtown move?!

- Yeah, Ghost is back. Hopefully we will see other direwolves too?!

- Yeah some stannis stuff. Doesn’t really get me on the show tbh. And freaking sacrificing Shireen? Wtf is happening in this storyline?!

- Which brings me to that Sansa/Theon part! I hate it but I have to say that this was the first time they finally showed how freaking scarred Theon is. Not physically but mentally. In the books I always loved the parts where he was discussing with himself/thinking about himself and who he was. I think it was portrayed quite well in the books and I missed it in the show. Finally a little madness was shown to the viewer. Oh yeah, and Sansa got some stab object (couldn’t see well what it was, but it felt like it)

- Some Tyrell/LF scheming. Yeah, that had to come. First time we hear anyone admitting the murder on Joffrey didn’t we?! (Can’t recall that we ever heard anyone say it out loud in the books, only LF pretty much telling it us, just not literally..)

- Dorne felt really rushed on the Jamie/Myrcella part, and the Bronn part was so freaking useless IMO. Skip that bullcrap if you’re short on time, or just kill him off.

- Tyrion and Dany meet in the show, so Varys’ plan did work out, in a way. I wonder were Jorah will end up. (Drogon food?)

- Glad they finally took Cersei and put her in a cell. I guess they will skip her becoming crazy (or do it in 1 episode), but then again they skipped that with Theon (Reek) too. But her walking away from Margeary with a big smile on her face showed us a little of the crazy Cersei we all love. And herself being thrown in jail later on because of Lancels info was priceless of course. Even though, this also was rushed (I totally forgot they were banging before, were in the books it was still obvious for me.

To be fair, they actually spent a great amount of screen time showing Reek's progression. And Alfie Allen's portrayal of Reek is the best I can ask for.

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Shireen will not be who she is without Stannis.

You are of course right, at least she would not yet be ready. But she has potential.

I would not want any of the very young characters as ruler, even the best would be puppets to others' games There is a reason that people below a certain age cannot become a member of parliament let alone get a job in a government in a democracy.

This topic is discussed along Dany, Robb and Tommen. In real life I would not want any of all those younger characters, Shireen, Myrcella or Sansa, to rule over a kingdom of millions. Now don't tell me that they could not possibly do worse than it is done now....

Martin's books are not an uplifting fairy tale. This is not teenage literature fuelling the dreams of those not yet of age and so far quite powerless to be the hero, to come on top, to identify with those who finally win. Happy ending, next meeting at the train station many years later........

This is literature for grownups.

To be fair, they actually spent a great amount of screen time showing Reek's progression. And Alfie Allen's portrayal of Reek is the best I can ask for.

This Edited by Woman of War

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To be fair, they actually spent a great amount of screen time showing Reek's progression. And Alfie Allen's portrayal of Reek is the best I can ask for.

Yeah, I wished they showed less progresson on his torturing and more on his mentally disfigurement. His physical abuse was just a way to break him. We only hear say Ramsay say that he ‘broke Theon’, but this was the first episode where he showed the fact that his mind is rather f*cked up.

Oh, and this isn’t about his acting, because I agree that we probably couldn’t expect anything better. But that doesn’t change the fact that I miss it (Just a minor, acceptable flaw though) And yes, I understand that this is very hard to show. (The main problem imo with tv shows in general is that showing ‘thoughts’ is almost impossible.)

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Anyone else think Thorne won't be involved with the whole stabbing scenario? I think even though the show are showing him oppose Jons views he's not going to dishonour himself and kill the Lord Commander.

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Anyone else think Thorne won't be involved with the whole stabbing scenario? I think even though the show are showing him oppose Jons views he's not going to dishonour himself and kill the Lord Commander.

First off all, that's a spoiler.

Second; We ain't sure that it will happen (but it's quite likely)

Third; he wasn't involved in the books either.

Fourth; who says that

Jon is dead in the books?!

Even GRRM hinted that he probably isn't

Edited by Attitude

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So is Olly going to stab Jon? Trying to figure out why they keep doing these odd lingering shots on him.


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So is Olly going to stab Jon? Trying to figure out why they keep doing these odd lingering shots on him.

Sounds plausible. He was against Jon when he decided to let the wildlings join them (right?). But on the other hand, he is like Jon; his steward who is in training to become LC.

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Yes.

Half the scenes in the show aren't rape scenes (thank god).

I'm saying it's embarrassing that they couldn't let one episode pass without falling back on it as a plot device.

Rape is an oft-mentioned aspect of Westeros' openly patriarchal society. However, GRRM somehow manages to avoid using it to get Sam laid.

And again I'm going to say that nothing forced D&D's hand in the matter. There are already lots of good reasons to get Sam and Gilly out of Castle Black.

nothing forced D&D or GRRM to create any of the atrocities that have happened so far, but they did because it makes for an interesting story. If you dont like it you might as well watch narnia, because bad stuff is gonna keep happening to good people until the very end of the story

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Sounds plausible. He was against Jon when he decided to let the wildlings join them (right?). But on the other hand, he is like Jon; his steward who is in training to become LC.

But its personal for him. They killed his parents and whole village. He just met Jon a few months ago. Its the only thing that makes sense to me any way. They keep focusing on him in these NW shots. Jon keeps looking to him hoping to get some sort of approval etc...

He is totally going to stab Jon. I just hope he isn't the only one. It would seem more emotional if it was like the books were 3/4 guys are doing it. Not just some 12 year old kid running Jon threw cause mad.

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But its personal for him. They killed his parents and whole village. He just met Jon a few months ago. Its the only thing that makes sense to me any way. They keep focusing on him in these NW shots. Jon keeps looking to him hoping to get some sort of approval etc...

He is totally going to stab Jon. I just hope he isn't the only one. It would seem more emotional if it was like the books were 3/4 guys are doing it. Not just some 12 year old kid running Jon threw cause mad.

Alliser Thorne seems to be Jon's main opposition, and one of the few notable characters along with Olly in the NW. He seems to be taking Bowen Marsh role of being there and complaining about whatever Jon does. I would be extremely surprised if he isn't the ringleader who starts the stabbing Jon Snow. If not him, who? Now Olie might also do it but as you say it will be weak if it is just him.

Edited by Qhorin Halfhand and Yoren

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That she will actually try and burn the city to the ground? Or that maybe she is a Targ?

At this pace there will be more Targs than ppl of any other houses, lewl.

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But its personal for him. They killed his parents and whole village. He just met Jon a few months ago. Its the only thing that makes sense to me any way. They keep focusing on him in these NW shots. Jon keeps looking to him hoping to get some sort of approval etc...

He is totally going to stab Jon. I just hope he isn't the only one. It would seem more emotional if it was like the books were 3/4 guys are doing it. Not just some 12 year old kid running Jon threw cause mad.

I'm not sure that I will, but I won't be suprised. And yes, I know about Ygritte + some Thenns iirc killing his mothers and father. So yeah, he could stab Jon. But probably not the first stab. He will be the one who gives him the last stab.

Alliser Thorne seems to be Jon's main opposition, and one of the few notable characters along with Olly in the NW. He seems to be taking Bowen Marsh role of being there and complaining about whatever Jon does. I would be extremely surprised if he isn't the ringleader who starts the stabbing Jon Snow. If not him, who? Now Olie might also do it but as you say it will be weak if it is just him.

Pretty sure that Bowen Marsh was against Jon being LC and against Jon allowing the wildlings to join their side too. So he could still fulfill that role. Alliser is (in the books) sent of to a ranging mission (he is 1st ranger) behind the wall. (in the books he is to afraid to disobey Jon, since Janos was beheaded by Jon). But they could switch them. Bowen marsh didn't have a big role in the show anyway, most viewers barely know him. Alliser however has quite some screen time, so I could see it happen that he will be the one setting up the attack..

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Allister planning the stabbing makes sense. Granted its just speculation. There is a good theory floating around that Allister is responsible for the Ceaser moment in the books as well. That Bowen and co have been communicating with Allister who is supposed to be MIA, and the go threw with the stabbing at his command. So Alister can reappear after Jon passes to hopefully claim the LC spot.


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Allister planning the stabbing makes sense. Granted its just speculation. There is a good theory floating around that Allister is responsible for the Ceaser moment in the books as well. That Bowen and co have been communicating with Allister who is supposed to be MIA, and the go threw with the stabbing at his command. So Alister can reappear after Jon passes to hopefully claim the LC spot.

Sounds reasonable. I always felt that it didn't really fit the picture that Bowen Marsh orchestrated the assassination... So Bowen Marsh commanding him/them makes sense.

Ps. Got a link about the theory?

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Pretty sure that Bowen Marsh was against Jon being LC

I don't think Marsh expressed an opinion of Jon being LC until he had actually become LC. He wasn't running candidate for most of the election. Sam was the guy that quietly suggested him to Denys Mallister behind the scenes, then to Cottor Pyke. Then the final votes were counted as having a Jon majority. By Sam.

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I don't think Marsh expressed an opinion of Jon being LC until he had actually become LC. He wasn't running candidate for most of the election. Sam was the guy that quietly suggested him to Denys Mallister behind the scenes, then to Cottor Pyke. Then the final votes were counted as having a Jon majority. By Sam.

Never said that he did, but he didn't vote for Jon, so that doesn't make him a supporter. If you vote for someone else, on some level, you are 'against' other candidates becoming LC. That was what I meant..

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Did anyone else think of the hooded man when Sansa was walking with Ramsay?

I did! But he/she/it is probably cut.. :dunno: It would be nice to see at least one of the minor and somewhat mysterious characters that they are in the habit of excluding/downplaying (eg. Coldhands, Willas Tyrell, Quaithe, Dalla, Val, Moqorro etc.).

But Sansa standing tall and hooded really triggered an image of the hooded (wo)man too me as well :idea:

I liked the episode and that they are consistent with Sansa's story. It put a smile on my lips when she started making Ramsay uncomfortable with her talk about the coming trueborn child, so she's doing something active now. Trying to get Theon to help her, was IMO a natural reaction since she's known him since childhood, but he's not ready yet - and that is good. It would be weird and inconsistent for him to snap out of it that easily..

Loved to see Ghost, but I was really annoyed with him disappering seconds after. I mean come on - Sam and Gilly on the floor literally just seconds after the two guys ran away and PUFFF gone was a massive Ghost. I get that the direwolfs are costly to make, but when they enter please do not make them disappear like by magic wand..

The fighting pit-scene was half-done in my mind, was it a training yard or what? And as others have mentioned Dany being squamish when the fighters were fighting to their death and then her own murders-by-dragon last week, is also inconsistent and it baffles me :bang: At the moment the only good scenes with Dany is when she's interacting with Daario, the rest are somewhat sloppy work imo.

Dorne was a bit better, but not much. I liked Myrcella telling Jaime off here. It images quite good the portrayal of her in the books. She's the smart one of the three, and I like that she's standing her ground and telling Jaime (or indirectly Cersei) to f*** off.. could do without her disney-outfit though :rolleyes:

Edited by Eija

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The Tyrion/Jorah scene was so cheap. They were sold from a wooden board in the woods and were then brought to a crappy run down arena where there was a really bad fight scene with terrible choreography. Then Dany just happened to be there. Why did she leave the safety of Mereen? That would have been the perfect time to strike against her. The writing has gone so downhill this season.


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