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[Book Spoilers] EP507 Discussion

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Why wouldn't it be entertaining?

Why are battles entertaining? Why are flayed women entertaining? Why is imprisoning innocent men entertaining? What makes rape so special that people ca'n't stop whining about it?

Because feminism.

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Ah, ah, ahhh!!! I said "(CERSEI'S)" game of thrones. She says that a woman's greatest weapon is between her legs.

But Sam would be willing to help Gilly, but he won't break his vows willingly. By sexing him, Gilly can claim that he already broke one vow, why not break one to save her life? Sam's fucked. Too bad he took his vows by a heart tree with Jon, so he technically is vowing to the old north gods.

Sam already told Jon last season that sex doesn't break the night's watch vows

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Cersei could be arrested for incest with Jaime since, while married to the King, Lancel knows about that. Pretty sure it was also stated that she instructed Lancel to give Robert too much wine. Oh, and she was having sex with Lancel also.



Again, same statement, sex is not in the vows. Have no family, father no children is. That's why molestown was nearby, to release some pent up energy. Funny plot hole there though. Molestown was a whore house right... so how did the nightswatch brothers pay them? They don't receive any money for being in the nightswatch do they, they don't have any type of money generating activities.


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Funny plot hole there though. Molestown was a whore house right... so how did the nightswatch brothers pay them? They don't receive any money for being in the nightswatch do they, they don't have any type of money generating activities.

http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/Various_ASoIaF_Questions

I assume that the Night's Watch does not pay the Black Brothers any wages in coin for their service - they get their provisions for free, after all.

What I was wondering...how do the Brothers pay the whores in Moletown? Since they're not using coin, do they pay in naturalia filched from Night Watch' stores?

I guess some women so far north would choose such a life (given that life is relatively harsher than farther south), even if they are not paid in coin...

A lot of the Mole's Town transactions are paid by barter, certaintly, but there is coin at the Wall... not much, though, especially these days... (see following answer). Some coin comes north with the highborn brothers... someone like Ser Waymar Royce undoubtedly arrived well heeled, and I imagine families send gifts and such as well... and there's trade that goes in and out of Eastwatch...

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Cersei could be arrested for incest with Jaime since, while married to the King, Lancel knows about that. Pretty sure it was also stated that she instructed Lancel to give Robert too much wine. Oh, and she was having sex with Lancel also.

snip

Where would be the proof though? They must surely require something more than someone's word? And if she's arrested for that, then surely they'll start questioning Tommen's right to the throne.

On the other hand, it was pretty much someone's word that got Loras and Margaery put in a cell. All these incriminations feel entirely too easy even in a world so devoid of lawful fairness as Westeros is.

The wine thing I agree, Lancel's admission of his own role in that is enough to seize Cersei.

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Lancel can give first hand "non-hearsay" evidence of incest. I don't know if he was already sleeping with Cersei before Robert's death but he and Cersei committed fornication and incest together. He has apparently done whatever penance he had coming and can now rat out Cersei without fear of further punishment. Little pious rat bastard.

I lump in Cersei with Ramsey, Walder Fray, Joffrey and Craster in terms of evil. Cersei is one of the most truly reprehensible despicable characters in literature. And still, I want her to get her vengeance against the High Sparrow and his Psycho Septas. I don't have actual evidence that can be cited in the text, but I DO NOT think the High Sparrow is sincere in his holiness. I think he is playing power politics and getting off on all the torture (In the books anyway, the Kettleblacks, the Blue Bard). I just feel like the High Sparrow matches Cersei evil for evil. She gets a little of her just desserts (WoS). So far the High Sparrow has gone unpunished. I never thought I could feel any sympathy for Cersei, but her jailers really pissed me off for some reason.


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I'm with the Imp on this one. There's something about the High Septon and his radical followers that makes you hate them more than Cersei. It's probably just excellent setup by George. Almost everyone wanted to see someone take Cersei down, but it is such a George move to have the people that take her down be more despicable.


Edited by TheWhiteRabbit

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Sleeping with Lancel isn't incest.

And why is Lancel a "little pious rat bastard"? You said yourself that Cersei is evil. Is it so terrible that Lancel regrets what he has done?

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Cersei could be arrested for incest with Jaime since, while married to the King, Lancel knows about that. Pretty sure it was also stated that she instructed Lancel to give Robert too much wine. Oh, and she was having sex with Lancel also.

Again, same statement, sex is not in the vows. Have no family, father no children is. That's why molestown was nearby, to release some pent up energy. Funny plot hole there though. Molestown was a whore house right... so how did the nightswatch brothers pay them? They don't receive any money for being in the nightswatch do they, they don't have any type of money generating activities.

Yeah, father no children. It doesn't offer the attendum, "bastards don't count, go have fun". Whores at Moletown probably drink moontea and stuff, but having Gilly as a girlfriend for a months long voyage is wholly different story.

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The HS can both play the game of thrones and be a good man. I think he's smart enough to realise he and nobility need each other. I think I need to quote Sirius Black: people is not divided in Good guys and Death Eaters. The HS does feel he needs to do something about those hundreds of men and women who have been the real victims of the war. At the same time, he needs to let the people in power to know he has power too. That's why Cersei fall. She made herself a very easy target. There is no way he could have targeted Jaime or Margaery. Jaime is a man warrior and Margaery has the power of the Tyrells.

Sleeping with Lancel isn't incest.
And why is Lancel a "little pious rat bastard"? You said yourself that Cersei is evil. Is it so terrible that Lancel regrets what he has done?

People often forget Lancel was very young when he started to have sex with Cersei. And it wasn't only the sex. She made him kill Robert. That's a lot of guilt to carry around for someone that young. It's not like he was a seasoned warrior at that age as many other characters. He was just a squire. Not all victims are female. Male victims of abuse are not different from Lancel: how they can react is unpredictable. In fact, there is one episode of House in which a teen had sex and became a preacher out of guilt. He even claimed to talk to God or something.

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I just want to say that saying Sansa hasn't grown isn't true, and the plot cooked up by LF ( D & D ) was stupid but it's what we have.



In Book Sansa tells us through her thoughts she doesn't trust LF but that's not what he wants to hear, lies and Arbour gold......,



In the show she doesn't trust him you see it in the wheel house, the tavern, even in the crypts and look at her facial expressions and body language, and if she told LF lets go back to the Eyrie do you believe he turn around nope he just give the speech he gave her, play on her family strings.



Now D& D stated emphatically that LF didn't know of Ramsey's nature, making LF spy net run by lazy people or blind ones; take your pick.


Now we get to WF and some Sansa growth is shown: her eye to eye with Roose, pure hate there on her part then her courtesy ( she should have reversed it ) maybe a neutral face would be better, in KL that would not have worked it get her beaten by Joffery, or she just meek away.



At the dinner table again she shows her dislike for the strange people in her home, she picks up on Ramsey's dislike of being bastard born, and she and he knows what Walda's pregnancy will mean.



When Myranda tried her psychout on Sansa, she turned right around on her putting her in her place.



And when she realizes after the wedding she is in trouble she tries to turn Theon using the method she picked up from LF, tugging on Theon's family and his title / position, but Theon is really broken so she needs to find another method.



And seeing a possible object she can use she grabs it and hides it from Ramsey, she is more assertive, blunt ( maybe to much ), she can read Roose and others, partially read LF, and knows either she or Ramsey is going to die and I'm pretty sure it won't be her.


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I'm with the Imp on this one. There's something about the High Septon and his radical followers that makes you hate them more than Cersei. It's probably just excellent setup by George. Almost everyone wanted to see someone take Cersei down, but it is such a George move to have the people that take her down be more despicable.

It's not a ''George move''. Since in the books, Cersei is more despicable then the Sparrows.

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When Myranda tried her psychout on Sansa, she turned right around on her putting her in her place.

A nice touch that I don't think a lot of people picked up on was that the psych out did work. After Myranda leaves, Sansa shows that she's scared. She was just putting up a front to Myranda. Perhaps at that time, it was too late to back out.

I agree with your post. Picking up the shark object shows she's planning something. In KL, she planned nothing on her own.

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A nice touch that I don't think a lot of people picked up on was that the psych out did work. After Myranda leaves, Sansa shows that she's scared. She was just putting up a front to Myranda. Perhaps at that time, it was too late to back out.

I agree with your post. Picking up the shark object shows she's planning something. In KL, she planned nothing on her own.

yeah when she covered her face and sat a bit.

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Why the fuck was Ghost at Castle Black instead of with Jon?

Don't know, maybe showing that Jon isn't totally smart with regards to his safety, in the books he's told to keep Ghost close, but doesn't and he's shived.

So I think it was a cheap way to show Ghost's relevance and also show Jon not being wise, by letting all his friends go.

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A nice touch that I don't think a lot of people picked up on was that the psych out did work. After Myranda leaves, Sansa shows that she's scared. She was just putting up a front to Myranda. Perhaps at that time, it was too late to back out.

I agree with your post. Picking up the shark object shows she's planning something. In KL, she planned nothing on her own.

When littlefinger and she rode into Winterfell, it was too late, she was outnumbered and essentually a prisoner at that time. Technically, once Lf and co got away from Brienne at the Tarvern, she was doomed. She just did not realize that yet until she was at Moat Caillin.

Edited by Lord Damian

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When Myranda tried her psychout on Sansa, she turned right around on her putting her in her place.

When Septa Mordane was still on charge of her, she also "put her on her place". And then, her father died. Looks like bad things happen to Sansa after she reminds people what's "their place". I wonder how many girls put D&D on their place back on the day...

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When Septa Mordane was still on charge of her, she also "put her on her place". And then, her father died. Looks like bad things happen to Sansa after she reminds people what's "their place". I wonder how many girls put D&D on their place back on the day...

well if the gods are punishing young girls or boys for sticking up for them selves they're a bunch of dicks.

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well if the gods are punishing young girls or boys for sticking up for them selves they're a bunch of dicks.

If by "Gods" you mean D&D, we already knew that.

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