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[Poll] How would you rate episode 507?

How would you rate episode 507?  

641 members have voted

  1. 1. What's your rating from 1-10, with 10 being the highest/best

    • 1
      16
    • 2
      12
    • 3
      18
    • 4
      22
    • 5
      34
    • 6
      40
    • 7
      86
    • 8
      144
    • 9
      178
    • 10
      91


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What "plots" have they done that are not completely senseless? Yes, they can do dialogue. They can write good scenes. But, they don't seem to be able to put a cogent storyline together...every story they have invented has been riddled with implausible actions, logic fails and plot holes. So, I can't see how that now when they don't even have a meandering guideline of books that they are ignoring, this will make them improve things. It seems like we will get more weird campy stuff like Dorne, more scenes that feel and are disconnected from any type of normal plot progression.

I'm also not sure they're going 8 seasons, especially with the ratings dropping.

As a show only viewer, stuff doest seem so bad you know?

Here is how a casual show viewer sees it

Dorne is a new different location. Good job d&d

Why Jamie went alone? He is such a dumb dude. Always has been (note the blame is on jamie and not d&d)

Why does sansa marry Ramsey? That ass LF tricked her.

Why the rape? It was horrible. Oh wait this is GoT it was always evil to good people.

You notice the simplicity of thought?

Forget the books, jeyne poole, where sansa is in the books, the qeenmaker, stoneheart. Forget everything...

The show then becomes quite enjoyable you know.

Head over to GoT facebook page. Read all comments and comments within comments

I feel a large % of viewers are not close plot analyzers.

They do not even know the name of half the people.

Hell, they need a recap to remember who was Jeor mormont. They do not observe.

Plot hole is nothing to many. That is the case in TV.

See the Tyene scene? Some claim it was the most stupid scene and on the other side millions simply "began to like season 5".

Same with Cercei.

Edited by robasp2

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As a show only viewer, stuff doest seem so bad you know?

Here is how a casual show viewer sees it

Dorne is a new different location. Good job d&d

Why Jamie went alone? He is such a dumb dude. Always has been (note the blame is on jamie and not d&d)

Why does sansa marry Ramsey? That ass LF tricked her.

Why the rape? It was horrible. Oh wait this is GoT it was always evil to good people.

You notice the simplicity of thought?

Forget the books, jeyne poole, where sansa is in the books, the qeenmaker, stoneheart. Forget everything...

The show then becomes quite enjoyable you know.

Head over to GoT facebook page. Read all comments and comments within comments

I feel a large % of viewers are not close plot analyzers.

They do not even know the name of half the people.

Hell, they need a recap to remember who was Jeor mormont. They do not observe.

Plot hole is nothing to many. That is the case in TV.

See the Tyene scene? Some claim it was the most stupid scene and on the other side millions simply "began to like season 5".

Same with Cercei.

What did you think Karl Tanner and Yara successfully besieging Dreadfort, entering their dungeons with a dozen armed and armoured men, then shrugged and ran away, back across the width of the Westerosi continent because a naked guy and two barking dogs were in the way their objective two metres away?

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What did you think Karl Tanner and Yara successfully besieging Dreadfort, entering their dungeons with a dozen armed and armoured men, then shrugged and ran away, back across the width of the Westerosi continent because a naked guy and two barking dogs were in the way their objective two metres away?

Look dude, I'm NOT the show idiot I just mentioned above.

Anyway they would probably think of something like Ramsey was just the first person, thousands of Bolton men are running to the location now. I dont know.. Something simple is always what they think.

Edited by robasp2

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As a show only viewer, stuff doest seem so bad you know?

Here is how a casual show viewer sees it

Dorne is a new different location. Good job d&d

Why Jamie went alone? He is such a dumb dude. Always has been (note the blame is on jamie and not d&d)

Why does sansa marry Ramsey? That ass LF tricked her.

Why the rape? It was horrible. Oh wait this is GoT it was always evil to good people.

You notice the simplicity of thought?

Forget the books, jeyne poole, where sansa is in the books, the qeenmaker, stoneheart. Forget everything...

The show then becomes quite enjoyable you know.

Head over to GoT facebook page. Read all comments and comments within comments

I feel a large % of viewers are not close plot analyzers.

They do not even know the name of half the people.

Hell, they need a recap to remember who was Jeor mormont. They do not observe.

Plot hole is nothing to many. That is the case in TV.

See the Tyene scene? Some claim it was the most stupid scene and on the other side millions simply "began to like season 5".

Same with Cercei.

Nonsense.

Look at shows like Breaking Bad, House of Cards, the Following, Mad Men and similar. They aren't easy shows to watch yet, they are popular. Believing what you stated is simply assuming your audience is dumb and you treat them as such because you, as a writer, are a lazy fucktard. Of course, if I show people pretty lights they will get bedazzled, but that doesn't mean they can't appreciate a more sophisticated entertainment.

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You can't have it both ways - either this season is worse because it's following the "bad" source material, or it's worse because it is deviating. To me it is clearly doing more of the latter.

A proper season combining Feast/Dance could have been amazing. Even though they are widely regarded as Martin's weakest books they are still very good books, treasure troves of rich character development and with enough exciting plot points that with some of the fat trimmed they could have made an action packed 10 episodes. We have the Martells - a new family very distinct from the rest - seeking revenge, a new claimant to the throne revealing himself, Dany riding her dragons for the first time, Jon getting stabbed etc. etc.

ETA: As for "everyone has shit days" I'm sorry but the problems that have been plaguing this Season have been pointed out by book purists since S2. Earlier even. This isn't just a bad season, it's the culmination of 5 years of increasingly poor writing.

You can have it both ways. The source can be shit and the deviations the show takes from them can also be shit.

You can do a shit painting of a bird. And I can go, I'm going to do a better painting, of the same bird - but mine turns out shit also :)

I'm not going to get into specific differences - just the overall narrative structure, complexity and connectedness was greater in books 1-3, seasons 1-4. A tight plot became lose, in both book and show. The show is trying to make the meandering looseness of the books seem more urgent, but cutting out some elements, inserting some fan service and favoring Tyrion but the result is something that is disconnected and often lacks plausibility.

Boring vs stupid - these are the options for what ASoIaF/GoTs has become - which is sad, because they both started tight and intelligent. You can say that the show's stupidity is the culmination of bad writing by the show runners but one can also claim the boring and meandering books that are AFFC and ADWD represent a lack of organisation, discipline and planning on GRRMs part as a writer.

Oh and re the Martells - too little too late. This saga doesn't need an all new family just after mid way through the overall plot. That's actually pretty clumsy storytelling. I'm starting to think GRRM should never have tried to expand past 3 or 4 books and the show should have been organised around 5 seasons. The easiest way to ruin something is to make it go on to long, which GoTs/ASoIaF seems to have done.

Fuck the Martells, really - Obyren was in a cool scene with the Mountain and there is backstory to justify why, that's all that is needed. What is needed is conclusion for the primary characters Jon. Dany, Tyrion, Arya, Bran and secondary Jamie, Cersie, Sansa, Theon, Stannis - as well as conclusion for the villainous characters like Roose, Ramsay, LF and Walder, resolution for the IT, along with the world and magics growing in it like Others and dragons. Everything else is ultimately superfluous and detracts from the tale remaining tight and focused.

Edited by ummester

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I give the episode an 8. It think the episode was a good setup for the last 3 episodes. Most things seem to be moving forward. I like that Tyrion and Dany were put together. I like the mix of Jorah and Tyrion. Any episode with Davos is a plus. Aemon mentioning Egg and the I dreamed I was old was fantastic. QoT with the High Sparrow was good. I do not like the communistic crap that he spouted, but it worked to get his point across in the scene. Tommen bellowing about he was the king was priceless.



I find it interesting that people claiming to not be watching the show are still on here commenting, especially in the Rate the Episode thread. I hope that they did not vote if they truly did not watch the show. Now if they did actually watch the episode, they are certainly free to give it a 1 if they choose. I hope they will be able to come out of the closet as secret show watchers one day.


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What "plots" have they done that are not completely senseless? Yes, they can do dialogue. They can write good scenes. But, they don't seem to be able to put a cogent storyline together...every story they have invented has been riddled with implausible actions, logic fails and plot holes. So, I can't see how that now when they don't even have a meandering guideline of books that they are ignoring, this will make them improve things. It seems like we will get more weird campy stuff like Dorne, more scenes that feel and are disconnected from any type of normal plot progression.

I'm also not sure they're going 8 seasons, especially with the ratings dropping.

well i guess i'm an optimist. :drunk:

I'm pretty sure If the ratings stay steady from now till conclusion they will still be on average just lower than the Sopranos. So down from a peak but wayyy off "lets wrap it up fast territory. If HBO had thought 10 based on previous viewing numbers, hard to think they would not be happy with 8 based on current figs. I think its as good as a done deal.

And just to repeat US viewing figs are only a part of the picture, and i can assure you GoT is a massive draw in Asia, whcih is where the real money is nowadays anyway.

Back to the story

the plots from here to the conclusion should be very little different between book and show- i expect they have a LOT more than a meandering guideline- Holy [email protected] if GRRM has not mapped this out to conclusion by now then we really can kiss goodbye to ANY hope of a written conclusion....

I do agree that D&D should stick as closely as possible to the plots, their track record is patchy to put it mildly. But i don't think that's a problem because the drive to a conclusion obviates any future need for "timepass" subplots, while an 8 season plan stops them having to rush forward crazily.

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Can't agree on Stoneheart. The viewers need something to cheer for, a reason to feel hopeful. This season they took out Bran, took out Rickon and Osha, and for whatever reason decided to make Sansa's life ever more miserable, and Arya is in a holding patter [why they haven't done more with Tom I have no idea...we should be seeing something more like her dialogues w/Charles Dance here....where they use the chemistry between those two actors and give us some back story..interspersed w/various other stuff with the FM..they've wasting his return].

Stoneheart and the brotherhood keeps a link to the RW, the Freys and all of those characters the viewer already knows, they could have invented something for these guys to do...and this is especially true as it looks like they bringing the Riverlands back next season.

I agree on Meereen, viewers, like a lot of readers are sick of her stuck there and I feel they have done a fairly good job with that, other than wasting Selmy and his death.

Whoa, don't you guys in Castle Rant&Rave go on about how revenge is Baaad and D&D do too much of it? And you want to bring in the character who literally has nothing to say to the plot but DieDieDie ?? Stoneheart devalues the death of Cat in the books and it would be no different in the show. I mean where is GRRM going with her? I don't see here killing off Jamie or Brienne and i don't see her doing in Walder Frey or Littlefinger, although it would be poetic justice...

Where is the time for all this invented plot meant to come from, and in any case, aren't you the one saying that they dont' do invented plot well????

i do kind of agree with you on having more exposition of the Faceless Men for unsullied. But as a book reader i think it is a beautiful adaptation, some of the best work they have done that makes the most of TV as visual medium.

Edited by God-Emperor of Yi Ti

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You can have it both ways. The source can be shit and the deviations the show takes from them can also be shit.

You can do a shit painting of a bird. And I can go, I'm going to do a better painting, of the same bird - but mine turns out shit also :)

I'm not going to get into specific differences - just the overall narrative structure, complexity and connectedness was greater in books 1-3, seasons 1-4. A tight plot became lose, in both book and show. The show is trying to make the meandering looseness of the books seem more urgent, but cutting out some elements, inserting some fan service and favoring Tyrion but the result is something that is disconnected and often lacks plausibility.

Boring vs stupid - these are the options for what ASoIaF/GoTs has become - which is sad, because they both started tight and intelligent. You can say that the show's stupidity is the culmination of bad writing by the show runners but one can also claim the boring and meandering books that are AFFC and ADWD represent a lack of organisation, discipline and planning on GRRMs part as a writer.

Oh and re the Martells - too little too late. This saga doesn't need an all new family just after mid way through the overall plot. That's actually pretty clumsy storytelling. I'm starting to think GRRM should never have tried to expand past 3 or 4 books and the show should have been organised around 5 seasons. The easiest way to ruin something is to make it go on to long, which GoTs/ASoIaF seems to have done.

Fuck the Martells, really - Obyren was in a cool scene with the Mountain and there is backstory to justify why, that's all that is needed. What is needed is conclusion for the primary characters Jon. Dany, Tyrion, Arya, Bran and secondary Jamie, Cersie, Sansa, Theon, Stannis - as well as conclusion for the villainous characters like Roose, Ramsay, LF and Walder, resolution for the IT, along with the world and magics growing in it like Others and dragons. Everything else is ultimately superfluous and detracts from the tale remaining tight and focused.

Well see this is where I fundamentally disagree with you. The latter two books were not shit. Feast was my least favourite book admittedly, but even that is a great piece of literature. And Dance is one of my favourite books, second or third place depending on how nostalgic I'm feeling for A Game of Thrones.

As for the Martells, plenty of franchises introduce new elements late into the game - later than the Martells. We don't visit Gondor until RotK, the Deathly Hallows aren't introduced until...well the Deathly Hallows. The Martells are - in my view - interesting and engaging characters and important new players in the game. That is what matters.

It seems to me like you just don't have the attention span for a longer story. Feast and Dance? That stuff is the plot now. There is stuff to criticise about them but when you're just fundamentally disliking the main plot, it's probably time to stop reading.

The only nugget of truth in your post is that a lot of the material in the latter two books is not suited to television. But there is a lot that is. So the options were not between stupid and boring. Trim the fat, combine the two books into 1 and a half seasons, make the best season yet. That's all they had to do.

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Fuck the Martells, really - Obyren was in a cool scene with the Mountain and there is backstory to justify why, that's all that is needed. What is needed is conclusion for the primary characters Jon. Dany, Tyrion, Arya, Bran and secondary Jamie, Cersie, Sansa, Theon, Stannis - as well as conclusion for the villainous characters like Roose, Ramsay, LF and Walder, resolution for the IT, along with the world and magics growing in it like Others and dragons. Everything else is ultimately superfluous and detracts from the tale remaining tight and focused.

I'll reserve my judgement about the Martells. But, the Greyjoys > Half of the characters you mention. ASOIAF can't be conceived without them, for all i care. And there's a hell of a lot people who think like that, so i hope you're speaking for yourself.

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It seems to me like you just don't have the attention span for a longer story. Feast and Dance? That stuff is the plot now. There is stuff to criticise about them but when you're just fundamentally disliking the main plot, it's probably time to stop reading.

LOL. So when we think Dance is a bloated mess we "don't have the attention span for a longer story" and we "should stop reading"? Yeah, sure. (The Yellow Pages aren't boring, you just don't have the attention span for it, dude!)

Let me reverse your insipid assumption and advice: It seems to me like you just don't have the aesthetic ability to appreciate good television. It's probably time to stop watching.

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LOL. So when we think Dance is a bloated mess we "don't have the attention span for a longer story" and we "should stop reading"? Yeah, sure. (The Yellow Pages aren't boring, you just don't have the attention span for it, dude!)

Let me reverse your insipid assumption and advice: It seems to me like you just don't have the aesthetic ability to appreciate good television. It's probably time to stop watching.

If you don't like the pace of Dance and Feast I completely understand that. I think they were slow myself. But Ummester seems to just be complaining about the fact that AFFC/DWD introduced new major characters. Plenty of stories introduce new characters and plots late on, often integral elements. That isn't poor writing. If you want a more compact story then ASOIAF isn't for you. That's your subjective opinion, not a valid criticism of the novels.

Honestly I think the problem was not that new characters were introduced late on, but that Feast did not have enough of the old characters to go along with it. No Tyrion, no Jon, no Dany - a whole book with the big three missing. If Martin had shifted around what POVs were in what book I think it would have been received far better.

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Honestly I think the problem was not that new characters were introduced late on, but that Feast did not have enough of the old characters to go along with it. No Tyrion, no Jon, no Dany - a whole book with the big three missing. If Martin had shifted around what POVs were in what book I think it would have been received far better.

Unfortunately, it wouldn't have. The big disappointment of Dance next to its sluggish pace were exactly Tyrion, Jon and Dany - or "where do whores go", "counting sausages" and "sitting on my arse in Meereen". Those three major characters went from enthralling to pedestrian, from complex and varied to one-dimensional and boring. Martin simply didn't know what to do with them any more and it showed. Let's hope D&D can reverse this grievous lapse and give us all a satisfying conclusion.

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Unfortunately, it wouldn't have. The big disappointment of Dance next to its sluggish pace were exactly Tyrion, Jon and Dany - or "where do whores go", "counting sausages" and "sitting on my arse in Meereen". Those three major characters went from enthralling to pedestrian, from complex and varied to one-dimensional and boring. Martin simply didn't know what to do with them any more and it showed. Let's hope D&D can reverse this grievous lapse and give us all a satisfying conclusion.

From the guys who authored the timeless phrase "Creatively it made sense to us, because we wanted it to happen", and who came up with the 4th-grade-boy-level idea of, wait for it, Brienne Signal!

Yes, i very much trust them to "improve" upon those "one-dimensional boring" books. LMAO.

--------------------------------------------------------------

I understand this is a Rating thread, so this is the last comment i'll make on the matter. It's been derailed enough already.

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Yes, i very much trust them to "improve" upon those "one-dimensional boring" books. LMAO.

--------------------------------------------------------------

I understand this is a Rating thread, so this is the last comment i'll make on the matter. It's been derailed enough already.

One-dimensional boring characters, but otherwise yes - D&D have already improved upon the source material of Feast and Dance. And significantly so. Regarding the rating, I gave this episode a 9, it was very good once again. How did you rate it?

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Unfortunately, it wouldn't have. The big disappointment of Dance next to its sluggish pace were exactly Tyrion, Jon and Dany - or "where do whores go", "counting sausages" and "sitting on my arse in Meereen". Those three major characters went from enthralling to pedestrian, from complex and varied to one-dimensional and boring. Martin simply didn't know what to do with them any more and it showed. Let's hope D&D can reverse this grievous lapse and give us all a satisfying conclusion.

I disagree. Again, the books could have done with some editing but there is plenty of great stuff in there. Personally I found Tyrion's chapters especially enthralling, by far the best travelogue in the series and filled with great characterisation as Tyrion slips to his darkest point. Feast and Dance have loads of stuff that would make for great television. Imagine Peter Dinklage actually allowed to act and play a proper anti-hero. Jon and Dany have some great stuff as well, struggling with learning to rule, having to make the best decisions out of a host of bad options.

None of S5s flaws have much, if anything to do with the flaws of the books so far as I'm concerned. With two books combined into ten episodes the slow pace of Feast and Dance should have been completely negated. Somehow D+D managed to come up with an even slower plot stripped of any characterisation and emotional impact.

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586 votes, 7.55 median, 7.67 with top/bottom 5% removed, 8 median.


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