The "Handsome Young Man" (Show Spoilers)

[Hada]

Hi-my first post. So here are my theories, though maybe I'm raising more questions thatn answers 'cause I still don't feel any certainty who the HYM is other than Not Lancel.

Lady Olenna may relish Cersei's downfall but it won't get her grandkids out of jail. The HYM has to be someone other than Lancel. If its Olyvar I doubt it will be a recantation; his gruesome death so he can't testify is more in keeping with the show and with LF's character.

What other HYM could spring Margery and Loras from jail? One that could either counteract Olyvar's testimony or render the HS and the FM powerless. What HYM would that be? One presumably with an army that could overrun King's Landing and carry out a bloodbath on the FM. Much as the HS says "we are the many, you are the few," there was more than one peasant rebellion in the middle ages that disproved that premise, including one that was put down by Richard II just before GRRMs favorite war, the war of the Roses. Peasants armed with batons against armored Knights? The well armored few have typically won those battles. I don't have a theory who would lead them. Probably not Sweetrobin--esp since weren't the banners of House Arran seen marching into Winterfell during the one of the season five trailers?

This is just a hunch, but I have this feeling that the information LF has that Cersei doesn't might be actual proof of the Twincest.(though I am still not sure how that will spring the grandkids). I think Littlefinger has had that info since season one when he rather foolishly hinted to Cersei "Knowledge is power," and nearly got his throat cut for it. He's looking forward to the day when he can gleefully smirk down at her and say, "Ha ha, knowledge IS power." If that happens they'll recap that "Power is power" scene in the pre episode synopsis.

Another scene from the pre season trailer is important here, the one where Margery is on her knees holding onto Tomen and looking like she's been through hell. That must mean she'll be released soon, somewhat worse for the wear, or so it looks to me.

[Hada]

sorry this was a double post--don't know how to delete the whole thing so deleted word by word.

[Winter Rose Crown]

The problem with the Olyvar theory is that if he changes his testimony, he will be arrested for lying to the faith just like Margaery was. Being a nobody with no powerful connections to help him out of trouble would leave him doomed, I don't see him sacrificing himself for Littlefinger like that.

I'm sure LF and/or QoTs will make all manner of grand promises to keep him safe(Margaery will be queen when she's released, after all). Of course they can't/won't follow through but he doesn't know that. No one is used to the high septon being able to overrule the queen.

[YourMomsBox]

Why would it be Lancel? High Sparrow says that Lancel well before hand, confessing his sins. So HS already knew about Cersei in all likelihood. LF would have nothing to really do with that.

I suppose it could be Lysa's boy.

[The Rat Kook]

Why would it be Lancel? High Sparrow says that Lancel well before hand, confessing his sins. So HS already knew about Cersei in all likelihood. LF would have nothing to really do with that.

I suppose it could be Lysa's boy.

Not to mention they actually had a scene showing Littlefinger vs Lancel. Clearly they are not allies in any sense of the word; Lancel wasn't Littlefinger's to give.

[Marlom]

Why would it be Lancel? High Sparrow says that Lancel well before hand, confessing his sins. So HS already knew about Cersei in all likelihood. LF would have nothing to really do with that.

I suppose it could be Lysa's boy.

If i remember right, Lancel already told Cersei in EP1 that he confessed his sins about the king and the relationship with her and she should do the same.

The question is, how Cersei could forget this. Did she realy thought that the HS won't judge her because she is Cersei Lannister, mother of the king?

[butchersboy]

Sure he could have referred to Lancel, but could it be slightly more interesting? Crazy theory here:

LF refers to Jaime Lannister, held captive in Dorne and able to disclose the truth behind the Baratheon/Lannister legacy when brought to trial? This could lead in a major plot twist.

I think it is plausible since LF did not react surprised when he heard Jaime was on a 'secret diplomatic mission', maybe he knew about it.

[jet199]

Of course if Olyvar is convicted of perjury because he changes his story he can always opt to take the black and become Satin (replacing his evil twin Olly).

[Philpenn]

Always thought I watch these episodes closely, but I honestly don't recall anything about the mentioning of a handsome young man in that scene. Then again I've only watched this one once, pretty drunk post a Memorial Day BBQ.

[ErasmusF]

I think it's pretty clearly Lancel. It's one thing that he confessed his sins to the HS. It's quite another thing when a major house comes to the HS and says, "and one of your own has sinned against the gods with the queen. What are you going to do about it?"

That gives the HS a reason/need to turn cloak on Cercei. They had the information before, but couldn't act on it unprovoked. Or didn't want to - they hadn't squeezed all the juice out of the Dowager Queen yet. It gives them a reason to grab more power. Now that the information has hit the streets, the value of not acting the information is less than it was when Cercei still had a lot of influence.

It pits Tyrells directly against Lannisters. Which is good for LF, both thinking he is on their side.

[God-Emperor of Yi Ti]

Hey Everyone!

I certainly enjoyed Episode 7 (the last 10 - 15 minutes were very satisfying)! Anyway, in this episode Petyr Baelish meets Lady Olenna to discuss the future of House Tyrell. Olenna lets him have it, but Petyr says he still wants to support them and that he has a gift for them, a handsome young man!

Could this be Jon Snow, maybe the lost Gendry?

Comment Away!! :eek: :cool4:

Crazy thought....what if LF has himself a pet [maybe] Targaeryan as well? Aegon strikes back?

Would kind of make sense that each of the master schemers has their own player.

Yes i can think of all the flaws too, but i've read crazier things in these parts.

[The 10th Penny King]

Love these logic-defying hilarious theories.

There is this thing called Occam's Razor. It is Lancel. The entire episode was set up to reveal the "Gift" - Littlefinger's and Jorah's. The Gift is the Lannisters. One a welcome gift (Tyrion) and one not welcome (truth from Lancel.)

[God-Emperor of Yi Ti]

Love these logic-defying hilarious theories.

There is this thing called Occam's Razor. It is Lancel. The entire episode was set up to reveal the "Gift" - Littlefinger's and Jorah's. The Gift is the Lannisters. One a welcome gift (Tyrion) and one not welcome (truth from Lancel.)

no, its definitely Aegon. :drunk:

[Winter Rose Crown]

Love these logic-defying hilarious theories.

There is this thing called Occam's Razor. It is Lancel. The entire episode was set up to reveal the "Gift" - Littlefinger's and Jorah's. The Gift is the Lannisters. One a welcome gift (Tyrion) and one not welcome (truth from Lancel.)

There's also Cersei's gift to Margaery. She says as she walks in, "I brought you a gift" and gives her the leftover soup or whatever it was. Tyene's gift to Bronn, Gilly's gift to Sam, Ramsey's gift to Sansa...

Occam's razor just says the hypothesis with the fewest assumptions is correct. If LF says, "The same gift I gave Cersei", the fewest assumptions means the literal same gift, which is Olyvar.

[Guess who's back]

here's also Cersei's gift to Margaery. She says as she walks in, "I brought you a gift" and gives her the leftover soup or whatever it was. Tyene's gift to Bronn, Gilly's gift to Sam, Ramsey's gift to Sansa...

Occam's razor just says the hypothesis with the fewest assumptions is correct. If LF says, "The same gift I gave Cersei", the fewest assumptions means the literal same gift, which is Olyvar.

So you think Olyvar will deny what he had said before?

Love these logic-defying hilarious theories.

There is this thing called Occam's Razor. It is Lancel. The entire episode was set up to reveal the "Gift" - Littlefinger's and Jorah's. The Gift is the Lannisters. One a welcome gift (Tyrion) and one not welcome (truth from Lancel.)

How could LF have any power over Lancel? Lancel had already confessed his sins when he joined the faith. Where is the logic here?

[Ser Fordinghamster]

The HYM is not Lancel, because LF is offering QoT something Cersei is unaware of. When LF says "I have other information of which she is unaware", he is referring to the information, not his knowledge of it. Whatever value the HYM brings to the table, Cersei is unaware of him or it.

The HYM is not Olyvar, because it is a gift of the same "kind" as the gift he gave Cersei, not the "same".

The HYM is not Gendry or Sweet Robin. QoT is interested in one thing only; freeing L&M immediately. All these other options involve a lot more work (proving incest, etc) that will take time to work through.

The HYM may be Tommen. LF could have been aware that the HS was about to spring his trap on Cersei. If so, Tommen is temporarily unmanaged until Kevan can return to the capital. Who better than the Queen's grandmother to help Tommen rule in the meantime?

But I don't think that's it. If you've ever watched a movie like The Godfather, the answer is obvious. LF is giving QoT the HYM because he wants to restore the balance he had before Cersei got Olyvar. LF did not want to give Olyvar to Cersei. He was forced to do it. LF knows more about Olyvar than Cersei. The HYM is someone that Olyvar is willing to die for. This is information LF knows but did not share with Cersei. Probably a close relative (brother?) or a true love.

All it will take is for QoT to visit Olyvar with this person. The opportunity could come if she accompanies L&M's "lawyer" to an interview. Olyvar gets the message. He recants and takes the Black. Or, he kills himself in custody. Even in Westeros you can't convict without sworn live testimony. The Gods can't read an affidavit. L&M are freed.

[Winter Rose Crown]

So you think Olyvar will deny what he had said before?

Or they will make him out to be a liar. As I said before, right before LF talks to olenna, they make a show of him using the peep hole that looks into one of the bedrooms. They'll probably say Olyvar saw loras with a girl. Olyvar will say cersei made him lie. Margaery will be freed outright and Loras will take some small penance for sleeping with a hooker. Olyvar will likely get the worst of it, but what can you do, this is westeros.

[Cas Stark]

So you think Olyvar will deny what he had said before?

How could LF have any power over Lancel? Lancel had already confessed his sins when he joined the faith. Where is the logic here?

LF doesn't have power over Lancel. But, like Varys, he also knows what was really going on with Cersei and Lancel and the incest and possibly the death of the king. So, presumably, all he needs to do is get that info to the HS who will then get it directly from Lancel. We don't know if Lancel had confessed or only repented and changed his ways...it can be however the show wants it to be....and even in the books Lancel had become religious and repented of his sins long before anyone questioned him about Cersei...so it's not even a change that he became religious and then was prodded to confess.

[chris999]

Haha, it´s Ramsay, haha!

Lol, true.

All of Littlefinger's gifts are poisoned.

He is so freking shady. He is my favorite character in the books... his chapters always show how devious GRRM is with his plots and schemes.

[VeturKemur]

I didn't link this with Lancel in any way. He had already told Cersei he'd confessed anything and the HS made it sound like he'd been playing her all along. I'd never consider Lancel to be handsome either. Especially with the the seven-pointed star cut into his forehead.