The true location of Dany's house with the red door

[SeanF]

The house with the red door is in Dorne. Dany was in Dorne. The marriage pact in secret does not mean the kids had to be there the whole time. They could of eventually went to bravos.

Sir Willem Darry was in the house with the Red Door, and he was in Braavos. There's no reason why a lemon tree can't grow in a tub in Braavos, and be taken out in warm weather.

If Dany remembered groves of lemon trees, there'd be merit in the theory that she was brought up in Dorne.

And, if she was brought up in Dorne, why didn't Doran ensure proper financial provision for the pair when they went abroad, or remain in touch with them?

[Victarion Chainbreaker]

I'm staunchly against gambling, but I'll make an exception just for you. Although, instead of a measly hundred bucks I'd like to have the satisfaction of a public mea culpa from you as the stake for this bet.

Money talks...

The house with the red door is in Dorne. Dany was in Dorne. The marriage pact in secret does not mean the kids had to be there the whole time. They could of eventually went to bravos.

From ASOS:

Once on a voyage to Braavos, as she'd watched the crew wrestle down a great green sail in a rising gale, she had even thought how fine it would be to be a sailor. But when she told her brother, Viserys had twisted her hair until she cried. "You are blood of the dragon," he had screamed at her. "A dragon, not some smelly fish."

So there we have Dany traveling to Braavos while Viserys beats her identity into her.

[Mikkel]

So there we have Dany traveling to Braavos while Viserys beats her identity into her.

Yes, charming as ever, the dear Viserys.

[Frey family reunion]

But Viserys? At least in this thread, I've not seen it accounted for how an older child would be fooled into thinking Dorne was Bravos.

I don't think Viserys was with Dany in the house with the red door, I think they first came together in Braavos.

[Frey family reunion]

Money talks...

From ASOS:

Once on a voyage to Braavos, as she'd watched the crew wrestle down a great green sail in a rising gale, she had even thought how fine it would be to be a sailor. But when she told her brother, Viserys had twisted her hair until she cried. "You are blood of the dragon," he had screamed at her. "A dragon, not some smelly fish."

So there we have Dany traveling to Braavos while Viserys beats her identity into her.

Interesting, I never thought of that before, that Viserys helped to create this identity for her. ETA: and brainwashed her into believing it.

[Lord Lannister]

Why do a lot of people seem to think there's some sort of lemon conspiracy? All the signs point to Bravos. If they were in Dorne someone would've ratted them out. Yes Bravos doesn't have trees. That doesn't mean some rich fellow, like someone putting up a royal family, might not have one or two in their yard. What would the Red Door house being in Dorne add to the plot? Beyond the fact that Dany apparently can't tell the difference between Bravos and Dorne.

[Veltigar]

Money talks...

When a man is as desperate as you are to depart from his money, the money must either be ill-gotten or cursed (you don't happen to have an undead monkey, a leaky boat and a chest full of Aztec gold lying around somewhere do you?) :p

[ThinMintMafia]

If people are going to insist on placing the rules of our reality upon a fictional world, then so be it. There is a farm on Vancouver Island, Canada that has a lemon tree orchard. You loose. Also, as SeanF has also pointed out, lemon trees do quite well being grown in containers. Can in fact grow up to 8 feet in one. This is how it has been possible for lemon trees to be grown for ornamental, low yield reasons in places such as the UK throughout history, where the containers with the trees are simply moved inside for winter. I'm sorry but if your theory hinges on lemon trees not growing in Braavos, then it holds no water.

[Victarion Chainbreaker]

What would the Red Door house being in Dorne add to the plot?

Ah, the plot argument. Because you have jack sh#t to argue against the theory, and instead have decided to argue that because the OP doesn't know how ADOS will play out, that he/she cannot possibly put together the pieces of the puzzle that are available.

[Victarion Chainbreaker]

If people are going to insist on placing the rules of our reality upon a fictional world, then so be it. There is a farm on Vancouver Island, Canada that has a lemon tree orchard. You loose. Also, as SeanF has also pointed out, lemon trees do quite well being grown in containers. Can in fact grow up to 8 feet in one. This is how it has been possible for lemon trees to be grown for ornamental, low yield reasons in places such as the UK throughout history, where the containers with the trees are simply moved inside for winter. I'm sorry but if your theory hinges on lemon trees not growing in Braavos, then it holds no water.

If you want to insist on Earth rules, then be my guest. You'll end up wrong. George has created a world where lemons are clearly out of place in Braavos, but are quite famous for being grown in Dorne. That is the world George has made. But enjoy your irrelevant annecdotes about Canadian horticulture.

I may be sexually progressive, but that does not make me "loose." Take your antiquated judgements and shove 'em.

[Veltigar]

If people are going to insist on placing the rules of our reality upon a fictional world, then so be it. There is a farm on Vancouver Island, Canada that has a lemon tree orchard. You loose. Also, as SeanF has also pointed out, lemon trees do quite well being grown in containers. Can in fact grow up to 8 feet in one. This is how it has been possible for lemon trees to be grown for ornamental, low yield reasons in places such as the UK throughout history, where the containers with the trees are simply moved inside for winter. I'm sorry but if your theory hinges on lemon trees not growing in Braavos, then it holds no water.

Add to that that we know the Braavosi have access to greenhouse technology (seeing they are located close to and in frequent trading contact with the North and Myr). And you wouldn't even need a greenhouse to keep a lemon tree. Just a container and an orangery would do the trick. And as a quick search shows, these orangeries where initially developed in Renaissance Italy, where gardens in general were a way to express the owners wealth and power. The free cities are obviously based on the Italian city states of the time, so the Sea Lord's palace must necessarily have a lavish garden to display his wealth and splendour. Proof for that can be found in the novels, where it is noted that the Sea Lord has the finest menagerie in the world (he even has a velociraptor from the jungle of Sothyros, he can definitely have a lemon tree from near by Dorne) and the Lands of Ice and Fire were the Sea Lord's palace has a lush garden attached to it.

[EastTymor]

(he even has a velociraptor from the jungle of Sothyros, he can definitely have a lemon tree from near by Dorne)

You would think that this by itself would be enough to quiet the Illemonatti.

[Lord Varys]

We have yet take our first peak into the quarters of Braavos were the truly wealthy people live. Something makes me believe lemon trees are nothing compared to the other treasures they have amassed. Braavos' star was constantly rising since it's very founding, and had last to deal with an open attack on its shores during the Century of Blood. It is the most wealthiest and most powerful Free City, and certainly would have the means to grow lemon trees on one of its islands - especially since magic also works in Martinworld.

People seem to fail that long Martinworld summers mean that you don't have to deal with frost for, well, years. It would be quite easy for wealthy people to move their trees outside in summer and then get them back into a safe greenhouse for winter.

[Frey family reunion]

Money talks...

From ASOS:

Once on a voyage to Braavos, as she'd watched the crew wrestle down a great green sail in a rising gale, she had even thought how fine it would be to be a sailor. But when she told her brother, Viserys had twisted her hair until she cried. "You are blood of the dragon," he had screamed at her. "A dragon, not some smelly fish."

So there we have Dany traveling to Braavos while Viserys beats her identity into her.

Damn, the more I think about this, the more intrigued I'm getting. For argument's sake let's say that Viserys never did have a sister, perhaps both mother and child died during childbirth. What or who would Viserys (and perhaps whoever was backing him at the time) have used for coin to obtain his army? If he didn't have a sister, perhaps he needed to invent one. The only one that can verify that Dany is Viserys' sister is Viserys himself.

[Lord Lannister]

Ah, the plot argument. Because you have jack sh#t to argue against the theory, and instead have decided to argue that because the OP doesn't know how ADOS will play out, that he/she cannot possibly put together the pieces of the puzzle that are available.

Yeah, that's almost like taking one snippet out of someone's post. Because -clearly- you can't argue against the rest of it. :rolleyes:

[Lost Melnibonean]

While GRRM does have many subtle things you can figure out in his books I think it is likely the lemongate is just mistake from him. He could have forgotten that he had Dany remembering lemon trees before he focused on the climate on Braavos when people started showing up there. Like the Jayne narrow hip thing.

I just do not see what the point of Dany growing up in Dorne would be, what effect it would have in the story. Twist should have meaning and unless this is a part of some very large plot I do not see the payoff at all.

And the marriage agreement was made in Sealord's palace and Viserys should know were he grew up.

But the narrow hips-breeding hips things was a one-time thing. The George keeps drawing attention to the lemon tree that doesn't grow.

[Lost Melnibonean]

I don't think Viserys was with Dany in the house with the red door, I think they first came together in Braavos.

Can you point me to the best stated theory on the red door not being in Braavos?

[EastTymor]

Can you point me to the best stated theory on the red door being in Braavos?

Sure, written by a guy named Martin:

That was when they lived in Braavos, in the big house with the red door.

. . .

All that Daenerys wanted back was the big house with the red door, the lemon tree outside her window, the childhood she had never known.

Dany I, AGOT

It is the house with the red door, the house in Braavos.

Dany IV, ACOK

In Braavos, there had been a house with a red door, but that was all.

Dany III, ADWD

Dany unrolled the parchment and examined it again. Braavos. This was done in Braavos, while we were living in the house with the red door.

Dany VII, ADWD

[Balerion the kitten]

^ Wow, how were we so blind? Daenerys repeatedly says the house was in braavos so she must have been raised in braavos.

How foolish we were to think this wasn't true because every description she has given us doesn't match up with braavos

[Chinoiserie]

*facepalm*

If it was a mistake on his part he would just make braavos a sunny place. He made it shitty because he wanted to show she wasn't raised there. You really underestimate GRRM if you think he would make that big of a mistake when writing. You do know he's had everything planned for the main characters since AGoT, right? He knows exactly what he's writing and what's to come.

Because Viserys was in braavos. Have you ever noticed Viserys is never been brought up in daenerys memories of the house except when she said they kicked us out, or something.

GRRM could have just looked the map and noticed that the climate really was not warm enough for lemon trees since Braavos is do north. So unless he made something up like a current that changes the climate to make it warmer than it is across from narrow sea from Braavos the lemon trees would not make sense. When GRRM wrote what Dany thought of lemon trees he would not have really paid imagination to the climates of the Free Cities . When the guard says he thought the Free Cities were warm that could be what GRRM might have planned originally to be true for all Free Cities. There is not really any evidence if you think the original Dany quote was a mistake.

So you think Viserys and Daenerys were raised apart and Dany did not notice and Viserys was in on the plot so he never mentioned the to Dany? Could you explain me why?