This week's Sand Snake scene was brought to you by the most beautiful woman in the world (or else) [book spoilers]

[Denam_Pavel]

This would all be true if these were real people with their own motivations. But they're not. This whole scenario was clearly orchestrated for a nude scene to take place and it's incredibly transparent. Why does it just so happen that Doran puts a ruffian in a cell right next to his nieces? Why is Tyene allowed to keep the antidote vial on her neck? If Tyene poisoned her weapon to help fight, why not use a fast acting poison rather than one which doesn't take effect until long after the fighting is over? It's all contrived just to see some barely legal breasts.

I don't hear you about all the other scenes of the characters of this series find their way to each other for very silly reasons. Tyrion and Jorah, Tyrion, Jorah and Dany, Brienne and Arya. Brienne and Sansa. Brienne and Hot Pie. Littlefinger showing up all everywhere. Arya becoming Tywin's cupbearer. Mel showing up at the Brotherhood. Shireen teaching Gilly to read. It was dumb. A lot of it was pointless. Was that all about barely legal breasts too? No. It was about letting the characters interact a little.

I called this the most gratuitous sex scene in the show so far, because even the random brothel scenes usually have some sexposition tacked on, like LF monologuing. This isn't the most explicit nude scene by any stretch of the imagination. But it's certainly the most pointless so far. And my stance is to treat everything as being exactly as dumb as it appears, because that's how it usually pans out.

I heavily disagree with the "usually" part. And the scene told us Tyene's the one that used poisons. What new info did Theon banging Roz, the second time, impart? Or the fifth Oberyn-in-the-brothel scene. Or Pod the Rod. Or Theon banging the captain's daughter. Or Hodor's penis. Pretty sure Bran and Osha weren't monologing anymore when he showed up.

[Cas Stark]

I don't know what's so hard to understand about my stance of not giving D+D the benefit of the doubt. If something seems stupid right now, I'll assume it is going to be stupid in the future. If D+D pull something which makes this all make sense, it'll be a pleasant surprise.

Yeah, people have been saying 'wait and see' for 5 years. I'm done waiting and seeing. I know how the Ds roll.

I don't need to wait and see to know that there is no way to salvage a scene of a woman doing a freaky striptease in a jail cell while blabbing about 'aren't I beautiful' to the guy she just poisoned. whether it's to get his blood pressure up so the poison works or whatever, it's silly and doesn't belong in a show like GOT.

[protar]

I don't hear you about all the other scenes of the characters of this series find their way to each other for very silly reasons. Tyrion and Jorah, Tyrion, Jorah and Dany, Brienne and Arya. Brienne and Sansa. Brienne and Hot Pie. Littlefinger showing up all everywhere. Arya becoming Tywin's cupbearer. Mel showing up at the Brotherhood. Shireen teaching Gilly to read. It was dumb. A lot of it was pointless. Was that all about barely legal breasts too? No. It was about letting the characters interact a little.

I heavily disagree with the "usually" part. And the scene told us Tyene's the one that used poisons. What new info did Theon banging Roz, the second time, impart? Or the fifth Oberyn-in-the-brothel scene. Or Pod the Rod. Or Theon banging the captain's daughter. Or Hodor's penis. Pretty sure Bran and Osha weren't monologing anymore when he showed up.

I complained about a lot of those things. Illogical plotting does not get a free pass because characters are allowed to interact for a bit as a result. When it's also a transparent means of getting some bare breasts on screen (in an episode which had two actually plot relevant sex scenes no less), it makes it seem not only poor writing, but juvenile.

[Denam_Pavel]

I complained about a lot of those things. Illogical plotting does not get a free pass because characters are allowed to interact for a bit as a result. When it's also a transparent means of getting some bare breasts on screen (in an episode which had two actually plot relevant sex scenes no less), it makes it seem not only poor writing, but juvenile.

Not asking you to give it a free pass. Just asking to put two and two together and realise that getting characters to interact is sometimes the goal, not just the means to get tits. Since the Sand Snakes in particular DESPERATELY need any characterisation at all at this point (it's episode 7 for Christ's sake), it was not pointless. I'd prefer it over yet another scene of Prince Oberyn stuck in the brothel again, or Theon getting kinda rapey yet again, or Pod getting some, then Varys and Tyrion getting screentime just to discuss Pod getting some anyday.

Also, really? Gilly and Sam was plotrelevant? Daario asking to marry Dany then getting shot down is somehow a crucial plot point but Tyene and Bronn is certain to go nowhere?

[protar]

Not asking you to give it a free pass. Just asking to put two and two together and realise that getting characters to interact is sometimes the goal, not just the means to get tits. Since the Sand Snakes in particular DESPERATELY need any characterisation at all at this point (it's episode 7 for Christ's sake), it was not pointless. I'd prefer it over yet another scene of Prince Oberyn stuck in the brothel again, or Theon getting kinda rapey yet again, or Pod getting some, then Varys and Tyrion getting screentime just to discuss Pod getting some anyday. Also, really? Gilly and Sam was plotrelevant? Daario asking to marry Dany then getting shot down is somehow a crucial plot point but Tyene and Bronn is certain to go nowhere?

Yes Sam and Gilly, and Dany and Daario were plot relevant. Sam/Gilly especially, that's one of the cornerstones of Sam's character development. Wasn't handled great, but yes it's plot relevant. I also think it's pretty relevant for Daario to reveal just how ruthless he can be, and given Dany and Daario's relationship having that take place as post-coitus pillow talk is logical.

The Sand Snakes certainly need characterisation. But you can't excuse this failure because of D+D's prior failures. Why weren't they developed before? Hell, Nym still hasn't been developed. She's a complete and utter none entity. Pretty sure she's had like three lines.

[Cas Stark]

Not asking you to give it a free pass. Just asking to put two and two together and realise that getting characters to interact is sometimes the goal, not just the means to get tits. Since the Sand Snakes in particular DESPERATELY need any characterisation at all at this point (it's episode 7 for Christ's sake), it was not pointless. I'd prefer it over yet another scene of Prince Oberyn stuck in the brothel again, or Theon getting kinda rapey yet again, or Pod getting some, then Varys and Tyrion getting screentime just to discuss Pod getting some anyday. Also, really? Gilly and Sam was plotrelevant? Daario asking to marry Dany then getting shot down is somehow a crucial plot point but Tyene and Bronn is certain to go nowhere?

Well, but whose fault is it that 7 episodes in the sand snakes desperately need characterization? And what kind of characterization does a freaky striptease give you?

Maybe, instead of casting 3 sand snakes, they should have cast Arianne Martell, not because she's Arianne Martell or for any thematic reason, but because she is one person. Or, Arianne and one sand snake.

Or, if they have some kind of important future role to play, and it has to be the snakes and 3 are needed, then give some time to their intro so they do not appear as generic warrior gals spouting stupid b movie lines.

[Denam_Pavel]

Yes Sam and Gilly, and Dany and Daario were plot relevant. Sam/Gilly especially, that's one of the cornerstones of Sam's character development.

What character development? Gilly is the one who decided to fuck Sam, Sam just laid there, could do little else. If just getting sex is character development to you, then what are we even talking about?

I also think it's pretty relevant for Daario to reveal just how ruthless he can be,

Cause we haven't known that for ages. Not like he killed his bosses purely to show Dany he thinks he's pretty or anything.

and given Dany and Daario's relationship having that take place as post-coitus pillow talk is logical.

Given that he is literally the only member of her council left aside from Hizdahr (who locked up till like, yesterday, I can't imagine they aren't having these conversations outside the bedroom too.

The Sand Snakes certainly need characterisation. But you can't excuse this failure because of D+D's prior failures. Why weren't they developed before? Hell, Nym still hasn't been developed. She's a complete and utter none entity. Pretty sure she's had like three lines.

Stop moving goalposts, you decided to bring comparisons to those prior failures into this. And that this season has been poor so far doesn't change the fact that this season has been poor so far and this scene offers at least something in terms of characterising Tyene and familiarising her too Bronn, even if you didn't get much of an impression from the reactions of the girls in the background.

[westerosifitness]

I think... that a lot of people are jealous of Tyene's boobs.

You don't see all the men complaining when we have to watch a guy's ass on screen. Their asses are like 100x better looking than most of ours, too, but we ain't all jelly and roarin' about it on the internet.

That scene ruled and actually made me interested in the Sand Snakes. I like how each of their postures and reactions reflect their character. Nym was even kinda wound up like a snake on that bench. Obara was sittin' all man-like and strong, and its obvious that Tyene does this sort of thing through the way they react to it. Nym is kinda haughty and maybe even prudish. Obara is in a completely different direction. I now know something about these characters!

Still wish Arianne was there in place of Ellaria. I love the actress and I loved Season 4 Ellaria, but this new rewrite of her character just does not work, for the actress or the show. It makes no sense that she would call Oberyn's death murder, and it makes it seem like the Sand Snakes are only doing all of this because she got them riled up to do it.

[voodooqueen126]

As a straight chick, I almost never check out guys backsides. Maybe I would If I was a gay man I would. Defintely Check out there chests, stomachs, shoulders, arms and height. But the series isn't really shot with the female viewer in mind. In fact the idea of the female gaze seems completely beyond D&D's petty little minds.

Also

way to attack the feminist argument using the good old "women are jealous bull".

[protar]

What character development? Gilly is the one who decided to fuck Sam, Sam just laid there, could do little else. If just getting sex is character development to you, then what are we even talking about?

Consumating a romantic relationship, especially as it's a.) Sam's first time and b.) against his vows, seems pretty important to me.

Cause we haven't known that for ages. Not like he killed his bosses purely to show Dany he thinks he's pretty or anything.

That's not really on the level of this. It's no mistake that he practically suggests the Red Wedding as a solution to their problems.

Given that he is literally the only member of her council left aside from Hizdahr (who locked up till like, yesterday, I can't imagine they aren't having these conversations outside the bedroom too.

They could have done. Although I would argue that such a drastic suggestion would be saved only for the privacy of their bed chambers. The point is it is a logical scenario, unlike the Dorne scene. I'm not asking they always take the option without sex/nudity if such an option exists. Just that if there is nudity it makes sense and not be so transparent.

Stop moving goalposts, you decided to bring comparisons to those prior failures into this. And that this season has been poor so far doesn't change the fact that this season has been poor so far and this scene offers at least something in terms of characterising Tyene and familiarising her too Bronn, even if you didn't get much of an impression from the reactions of the girls in the background.

How am I moving any goalposts? I'm just saying you can't excuse one bad piece of writing with a prior bad piece of writing. If this was actually a good scene which redeemed the Dornish plot that would be different. It isn't. It's illogical, and a transparent attempt to insert nudity.

[Denam_Pavel]

As a straight chick, I almost never check out guys backsides. Maybe I would If I was a gay man I would. Defintely Check out there chests, stomachs, shoulders, arms and height. But the series isn't really shot with the female viewer in mind. In fact the idea of the female gaze seems completely beyond D&D's petty little minds.

Buut Jorah's shirt.

[stagfyre]

I think Bronn is obviously turned on by a woman who nearly killed him, maybe they will be the show's next couple.

[WSmith84]

It was a pointless scene contrived just to see Tyene's tits. If the point of that scene was to show she was a poisoner, you don't need her to get naked. If it was to show she's sultry and a seductress, you still don't need her naked. I enjoy a nice pair of breasts as much as the next straight guy, but Jesus that scene was gratuitous.

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

It was a pointless scene contrived just to see Tyene's tits. If the point of that scene was to show she was a poisoner, you don't need her to get naked. If it was to show she's sultry and a seductress, you still don't need her naked. I enjoy a nice pair of breasts as much as the next straight guy, but Jesus that scene was gratuitous.

Using mammaries in seduction isn't, indeed, mandatory, but "contrived"? Come on.

[Jayc]

I thinnk Bronn has been turned by the Sand Snakes and will replace Darkstar. This entire season has been characters replacing characters

Sansa = Jeyna

Tyrion = fAegon

Bronn = Darkstar

Jorah = Connington (sp)

Brienne = Mance

[HexMachina]

I think... that a lot of people are jealous of Tyene's boobs.

Lol, no.

[H.P.]

I thought the scene was cool. The sand snake just gave Bronn a major mind fuck. The bared titties increased the mindfuckery level. Well teased, sand snake.

[bloodsteel bitterraven]

I think Bronn is obviously turned on by a woman who nearly killed him, maybe they will be the show's next couple.

He's old enough to be her grandfather lol

Also, is Bronn supposed to be handsome? I'm a straight guy so I guess my opinion doesn't really matter, but I was surprised to hear Tyene tell him, you're handsome too. To me, he looks like a weasel.

[chambraigne]

TL:DR version of this (and every other nudity) thread:

Some people have chosen the arbitrary concept of "gratuitous nudity" as the hill they'd like to die on. The rest of us wish they'd hurry up and die.

[Lovely Lyanna]

He's old enough to be her grandfather lol

Also, is Bronn supposed to be handsome? I'm a straight guy so I guess my opinion doesn't really matter, but I was surprised to hear Tyene tell him, you're handsome too. To me, he looks like a weasel.

Well he is not handsome in a conventional way, like Jamie, yet he has a certain something. Whatever IT is, he has it in spades. Some people are just sexy, even if they are not handsome or beautiful. :drool: